BibleForums Christian Message Board
Bible Talk => Eschatology => Topic started by: keraz on June 06, 2021, 06:32:38 PM
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Isaiah 61:1-2a The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me. He has sent me to announce good news to the humble, to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and to proclaim a year of the Lords favor,
Isaiah 61:2b-3...and a Day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn, to give then garlands instead of ashes, oil of gladness, instead of mourners tears and a garment of splendor for the distressed. They will be called trees of righteousness, planted by the Lord for His adornment.
Isaiah 61:4-11 Buildings long in ruin and desolate will be restored and rebuilt. Foreigners will serve you, caring for your flocks and vines, but you will be called priests of the Lord and the wealth of the nations will be yours. Because My people have received insults and shame in double measure, they will receive in their own Land, wealth in double measure.
For I, the Lord love justice and hate injustice, I shall give My people a sure reward and make an everlasting Covenant with them. Their posterity will be renowned among the nations, they will be seen as a people blessed by the Lord.
Let us rejoice in the Lord with all our hearts. From Him has come victory and deliverance. His people, robed in beauty are like a garden full of flowers. The Lord will make His victory and renown known to the nations. Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.
Isaiah 61:1-2a, was quoted by Jesus at the commencement of His ministry;.... a year of the Lord’s favor’. He stopped in mid sentence and then said: Today, in your hearing, this prophecy has come true.
Therefore, the rest of this chapter is unfulfilled prophecy. So, we look for the sequence of events to unfold as written, commencing with:
‘a Day of vengeance of our God’ - The next prophesied event. Not the Return of Jesus in His glory, but His punishment to the nations, triggered by an attack on Israel. This is prophesied and described comprehensively throughout the Bible as a terrible disaster by fire, that will affect the whole world. Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 30:26
‘comfort all who mourn’ - All who love the Lord and follow in His Laws, those who mourn His death on the cross. Zechariah 12:9-10
‘trees of righteousness, planted in their own Land’ - His people: all faithful Christians, Jews and Gentiles are gathered and settled in His holy Land, into all of that area promised to the Patriarchs, to their descendants by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, in the new country of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 20:34-36, Isaiah 26:15
‘buildings rebuilt and the land restored’ - After the devastation caused by a CME sunstrike, The Lord will regenerate the Land, Ezekiel 36:8 but buildings must be rebuilt, including the new Temple. Isaiah 65:21, Zechariah 6:15
‘foreigners will serve you’ - Isaiah 60:10...foreigners will rebuild your walls...
‘wealth of the nations will be yours’ - Zechariah 14:14 The same as what happened at the first Exodus. Exodus 11:2
‘make a Covenant with them’ - Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 34:25, Hebrews 8:10-12
‘from Him has come victory and deliverance’ - Psalms 91:14-16, Psalms 44:4-7
‘known to the nations’ - Ezekiel 39:21, Isaiah 40:5
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Dies Irae - the Day of Wrath: [lyrics abridged. Based on Zephaniah 1:14-18]
The day of wrath, the day of wrath, that day
Will break up the world into ash
Will break up the world into ash
As testified by David and the Sybil
The day of wrath, the day of wrath, the day of wrath
How much trembling there will be
When the judge comes
And strictly examines all things
Dies Irae’ (literally, Day of Wrath) is a medieval Latin poem, and one of the most famous melodies of the Gregorian Chant. In its original form, it’s a four-note melody describing Judgment Day, the prophesied day when humanity will be Judged and punished by God on His Day of fiery wrath.
But what does it all mean?
To give you a hint, choral composer Bob Chilcott, who conducted the Requiem at the Royal Albert Hall, told the Guardian at the time: “It’s about judgment, about the end of the world,” he says. “If you believe what it says, then we’re all stuffed.”
Fortunately we believe the Bible and although over 100 Bible prophesies are about this forthcoming terrible Day, we are assured of the Lord’s protection through it and the world will continue on, as it did after Noah’s Flood.
The sad part is that many Christians are unaware of it, what triggers it, what the Lord will use and the events after that literal day is over.
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What is the "event"?
A prediction of the future that is so vague that it can't be identified until after the fact (by which time it's too late?) seems like it fails in its function.
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The next prophesied event will be the Sixth Seal, Revelation 6:12-17
It is graphically described to us in over 100 Bible passages. Proved by Isaiah 61:2, where Jesus stopped His quote before; and a day of the vengeance of our God.
That people fail to see it is because they have already decided what they want God to do for them, or else it is just the general apathy and avoidance of the Prophetic Word of Christians and most pastors.
I could post many scriptures here to help your understanding.
Do you have a specific question? Or you could look at free articles on: logostelos.info
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The next prophesied event will be the Sixth Seal, Revelation 6:12-17
Okay, but what is the event?
When will it happen? A year? Ten? A hundred? Two thousand?
What will be the cause of it? What should people be looking for before it happens in order to know it's about to happen?
What is the hermeneutic you use that finds a connection between Revelation 6 and Isaiah 61?
When you say "people fail to see it because they...", you are inventing a motivation you can assign to countless people outside yourself, which I think is impossible to do honestly. Most people will "fail to see" what you see, because the obscure lens through which you see is being withheld from them.
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It will be the event that 'comes as a thief', we cannot know the day it will happen. But we can know the season and the signs. They point to a quite close fulfilment. Maybe before the end of this year, judging by the turmoil in the Middle East, with Iran getting nukes and Israel in political turmoil.
Revelation 6:17 and Isaiah 61:2, both say it is the Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath which will commence the end time sequence.
'People can't see it'.... Isaiah 29:9-12 tells us why; because people have chosen to believe false theories and doctrines, their eyes are closed and their ears are stopped.
Only by renouncing all mans ideas and fables, 2 Timothy 4:3-4, can anyone come to an understanding of what God actually has planned for our future. Most people will be shocked and surprised when the=is disaster strikes. Isaiah 2:12-22
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Maybe before the end of this year, judging by the turmoil in the Middle East, with Iran getting nukes and Israel in political turmoil.
I have been hearing this same claim made for decades. It's not a compelling reason when the last few thousand predictions by people just like yourself, each one with their own special hermeneutic, were all wrong.
Who was to blame? The people making predictions that the end would happen X year with a 100% failure rate? Or the people who doubted the predictions with a 100% failure rate?
Without tangible, compelling evidence that sets you apart, it is far more likely these predictions will be added to the long list of failed predictions.
'People can't see it'.... Isaiah 29:9-12 tells us why; because people have chosen to believe false theories and doctrines, their eyes are closed and their ears are stopped.
Verse 10 says God is the one who made them unable to see. It's not fair to blame a blind person unable to see when God is the one who blinded them to begin with. Which is it? Does he want us to see or not? If he does, why does he blind us? If he doesn't, why does he blame us? It's a self-defeating criticism.
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That people fail to see it is because they have already decided what they want God to do for them, or else it is just the general apathy and avoidance of the Prophetic Word of Christians and most pastors.
Or maybe you're just wrong. Maybe these people understand the eschatological significance of their lives here-and-now and don't fixate on, for example, end-times wet dreams of Israel getting nuked. Maybe this next prophecy of yours has already been heard before in recent memory: World War I? World War II? The cold war?
The world is always on the brink, but I guess someone is going to be just lucky enough to be peddling their wares when - if as understood - it actually happens, and then they'll be the person to claim, when the nukes drop, 'see, I told you all!' Obviously, this would be the most appropriate moment to bathe in the knowledge that one was right -- as the death toll rises.
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The thing is, guys; that God has not given us so much prophecy for no reason. We are NOT meant to be in the dark.
1 Thess 5:4
We should be aware of what must happen according to God's Master Plan. Sure there have always been those who say they have the knowledge and make predictions that discredit them.
But I have compiled a time line using scriptures that shows we are now at year 5991 since Adam. Abraham went to Canaan at year 2000, Jesus was Crucified at year 4000 and He will Return at year 6000.
In just 9 years +/- 1 or 2, depending on what part of the year things happen.
To call the probability of Israel being nuked by Iran, as a 'wet dream', is sheer foolishness and also shows a serious lack of Bible prophecy knowledge. We are told in the Bible, how the enemies of Israel will attempt to send a arrow [a missile] tipped with fire and how the Lord will then destroy them all. Psalms 7:12-16, Ezekiel 7:14
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The thing is, guys; that God has not given us so much prophecy for no reason. We are NOT meant to be in the dark.
1 Thess 5:4
We should be aware of what must happen according to God's Master Plan. Sure there have always been those who say they have the knowledge and make predictions that discredit them.
But I have compiled a time line using scriptures that shows we are now at year 5991 since Adam. Abraham went to Canaan at year 2000, Jesus was Crucified at year 4000 and He will Return at year 6000.
In just 9 years +/- 1 or 2, depending on what part of the year things happen.
To call the probability of Israel being nuked by Iran, as a 'wet dream', is sheer foolishness and also shows a serious lack of Bible prophecy knowledge. We are told in the Bible, how the enemies of Israel will attempt to send a arrow [a missile] tipped with fire and how the Lord will then destroy them all. Psalms 7:12-16, Ezekiel 7:14
You can consider it foolishness but not a 'serious lack of Bible prophecy knowledge'. Clearly, I'm following along, and clearly, it's a curious thing to be looking forward to the (attempted) nuclear destruction of a people - which if we know anything will be precipitated by skirmishes and death - as if the mere expectation of the fulfilment of prophecy exempts one from one's usual moral duties (imagine how the prophetically fixated Christian reacted in 1948). It's a wet dream exactly because you relish in this gnostic knowledge of yours, and lord it over others -- or dismiss them as being blind, apathetic, believers of false theories and doctrines, demanding things of God, and so on. It's all too convenient.
By all means, offer what you think is the correct understanding of the verses provided, but this dismissing of others in inappropriate, and "the sad part is that many Christians are unaware of it..." is not the sad part. The sad part is how many people will die outside of Christ in these end-times prophetic scenarios. We're given this academic treatment of some suggested future reality as if those who suffer had it coming to them (but of course they did, it's 'judgment'), and we dispense with a world that Christ died to save in favour of Jesus, our own little safety net.
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But I have compiled a time line using scriptures that shows we are now at year 5991 since Adam. Abraham went to Canaan at year 2000, Jesus was Crucified at year 4000 and He will Return at year 6000.
In just 9 years +/- 1 or 2, depending on what part of the year things happen.
How does your timeline correlate with Matthew 24?
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The thing is, guys; that God has not given us so much prophecy for no reason.
Okay, but that's not what we're asking.
We're asking, why should your hermeneutic which has led you to make these predictions be trusted over every other hermeneutic that resulted in countless failed predictions?
In terms of sheer probabilities, there is no compelling reason to trust your predictions will be the exception to the rule, especially when you haven't provided anything more tangible than "because I said so".
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I think setting up a *possible* time line is reasonable, when the Millennial Day theory has been around since the Early Church. It isn't like pinpointing the day and hour of Christ's Coming, but rather, giving us a general idea of where we are in history, with respect to Biblical Prophecy.
I certainly don't see it as definitive, since it just isn't taught in the Scriptures. The surest thing to go by, when trying to prognosticate, is to look at the overall blueprint, to see how close to finishing the house we are.
Israel was the initial model for all other nations. And then we can see, after the Cross, forgiving Israel, the multitude of nations that have either accepted Christianity for their government, or who have allowed some influence into their countries.
And just as Israel over time fell back to the lowest common denominator, and capitulated to idolatry, so today, former Christian nations have capitulated to religious pluralism, which is another way of describing not just tolerance, but tolerance of idolatry. (I'm certainly not here speaking of Christian Inquisitions, but rather, of the kind of tolerance that gives a green light to despicable immoral or violent behavior.)
When we get to the point where Christianity is abandoned in favor of idolatry, other religions spring up, and their accompanying corruptions. It is then that God begins, again, to pour out both national and world judgments.
This is the kind of timeline that is preferable to a mere timing scheme, or prophetic calendar. But I can find no fault in the Millennial Day theory. It seems like it does correspond to the predicted Great Apostasy among the nations, particularly in the Christian West. And we do see judgment arising, in plagues, wars, and rumors of wars.
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Abraham went to Canaan at year 2000, Jesus was Crucified at year 4000 and He will Return at year 6000.
Also, since this timeline is the only clear, falsifiable claim being made in a Bible Talk thread, we should look at it.
With timelines like this, it's always wise to consider why the specific anchor points are chosen. The outlier here is Abraham going into Canaan. What's it got to do with anything? Why not the year when Isaac was born? Or Jacob? Or the exodus? Likewise, how do we possibly know what year Jesus was crucified? The gospels don't provide enough information. The narrowest range we can determine is 29-36 AD.
Timelines like this also require adding up the patriarchs' ages in Genesis 5, 6, 11, and 12. The Masoretic, Septuagint, and Samaritan versions of Genesis vary considerably on these numbers, especially for the antediluvian patriarchs. (This is because all three text traditions try to solve the problem of several patriarchs surviving the flood in the vorlage.) No matter which text tradition we use, none of them put Abraham's journey to Canaan in the year 2000. In the Masoretic, Abram entered Canaan around year 2021. (Weird coincidence.) In the Samaritan, he entered around year 2322. In the Septuagint, year 3257. In the vorlage, year 2357. The closest version is the Masoretic, off by just 21 years, but this can't be the version we use, because Jesus' genealogy in Luke 3 includes Cainan son of Arpachshad and father of Shelah, who is only mentioned in the Septuagint.
The timeline just doesn't work. The clearest gospel, Luke, follows the Septuagint version of Genesis, putting Abram's entry into Canaan in year 2322. And we just don't know what year Jesus was crucified.
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7000 years from the Creation to the Completion of Mankind:
Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3970.5 BC subtracted back from 586 BCE, from:
Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 7:6 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BC
Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4
Total years so far = 2000
Gen 17:1, Abraham was 99 when the Covenant was made with God. +47 Genesis 17:1-8
Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Law was given +430 after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – 2477, in our year 1493.5 BC.
[Many ancient records say Comet Typhon passed close the earth at that time. It was the cause of many of the disasters in Egypt.]
1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon +480 since the Torah was given at the Exodus.. 1 Kings 11:42 Solomon 40 minus 4 = +36, 1 Kings 14:21 Rehoboam +17, 1 Kings 15:2 Abijah +3, 2 Chron 16:13 Asa +41, 1 Kings 22:42 Jehoshaphat +25, 2 Kings 8:17 Jehoram +8, 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah +1, 2 Kings 11:1-3 Athaliah +6, 2 Kings 12:1 Joash +40, 2 Kings 14:2 Amaziah +29, 2 Kings 15:1-2 Azariah +52, 2 Kings 15:33 Jotham +16, 2 Kings 16:2 Ahaz +16, 2 Kings 18:1-2 Hezekiah +29, 2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh +55, 2 Kings 21:19 Amon +2, 2 Kings 22:1 Josiah +31, 2 Kings 23:31 Jehoahaz +3mths, 2 Kings 23:36 Jehoiakim +11, 2 Kings 24:8 Jehoichin +3mths, 2 Kings 24:18-20 Zedekiah +11, who ruled until the Babylonian captivity in our year of 586 BC.
Total elapsed years to the first exile of Judah = 3386.5
586 BC + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5/30 AD, the date of Jesus’ acknowledgment as King of Israel. Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement.
3386.5 + 613.5 = 4000 years from Adam to Jesus.
January 2021 AD - 29.5/30 AD = 1991.5 years since Jesus made His triumphal entry into Jerusalem on the first Palm Sunday
1991.5 + 4000 = 5991.5 years, is where we are now. 5991.5 + 8.5 = 6000 years
2021 AD + 8.5 = 2029.5 AD
Exactly 2000 years for the present Church age, until Jesus Returns.
4000 since Abraham, 6000 since Adam. Next comes the 1000 year reign of King Jesus.
7000 years is God’s decreed time for mankind.
Those who have been found worthy will go into Eternity with God. Revelation 22:1-5
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Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3970.5 BC subtracted back from 586 BCE, from:
Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 7:6 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BC
Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4
Total years so far = 2000
I can see three serious problems
The first thing is somewhat minor, but it still sets your math off by at least two years (so 1998, not 2000). You only provide Noah's age for when the flood happens and how many years Arpachshad was born after the flood, instead of using the following the same method you used before and after this: counting the father's age when his son was born. As a result, you completely skip Shem. Genesis 5 says Noah was 500 when Shem was born. Genesis 11 says Shem was 100 when Arpachshad was born. Understandably, this math doesn't make sense if Arpachshad was born two years after the flood, but this is still what Genesis says.
The second thing, here is a spreadsheet formula using only the numbers you provided. Go ahead and copy it into a spreadsheet and see what the result is:
=sum(130+105+90+70+65+162+65+187+182+600+2+35+30+34+30+32+30+29+70+75).
The sum is 2023. Genesis doesn't say Abram lived in Haran for 23 years. It doesn't say he left Ur when he was 52. These are numbers nowhere found in Genesis, and would irrelevant anyway. Abram "went to Canaan" when he was 75, which would be year 2023. (Or, actually, 2021 if we don't conspicuously use a different counting method that lets us skip Shem altogether.) Why does Abram living in Haran for 23 years (never stated in Genesis) mean you can subtract 23 from the total? It shouldn't affect the sum at all.
But the third thing is the biggest problem. I pointed out, Luke 3 includes a generation between Arpachshad and Selah. A second man named Cainan, who is only found in the Septuagint. Meaning, the only book in the Bible that presents any sort of "timeline" between Jesus and the beginning of the world is following the Septuagint version of Genesis, which doesn't have Abram entering the land of Canaan until year 3257. Even if we follow the Masoretic version for the majority of the timeline, but we include the second Cainan, it adds 130 years to your timeline, making Abram enter Canaan in 2151.
Before I could accept the premise of your timeline, you would need to provide answers to five questions:
1. Why are you changing your counting method only when it comes to Shem?
2. Why are you including two numbers (23 and 52) for Abram that aren't actually found in Genesis?
3. Why are you subtracting 23 from your total?
4. Why are you not using the Septuagint version of Genesis when Luke 3 does?
5. Why are you excluding Cainan son of Arpachshad and father of Selah, when Luke 3 includes him, even if you prefer the Masoretic numbers over the Septuagint numbers for the other patriarchs?
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Thanks for you well considered reply;
1/ Because the Flood is the pivot point, not the age of Shem.
2/ The age that Abraham actually went into Canaan and the time he spent in Haran, is not given. We get it from simple maths. We can ascertain Abrams age when he left Ur from when he was born; 1948 years since Adam, so he obeyed God at age 52, then he spent 23 years in Haran and was 75 when he entered Canaan.
1948 +52 = 2000 years since Adam.
3/ The 23 years Abram spent in Haran is irrelevant to the timeline.
4/ I use my Bible as Written.
5/ It seems that Cainan and Reu are both missing from the Genesis record. Whatever the reason for this, or if they never existed, is unresolvable and in my opinion; insignificant.
Your opposition to a timeline that proves how close we are to the graphically prophesied events of the end times, is understandable. It is mighty scary!
But to avoid the facts and to be clueless about what must happen, is even more scary.
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1. Switching the counting method for only one instance specifically to arrive at the desired result is convenient.
2. It's not "simple maths" when the 52 is coming from thin air. (I know there's a tradition in the Talmud, but we're not talking about the Talmud.) Where are you getting 52 and 23 from? Neither number is in Genesis.
3. Abram entered Canaan when he was 75. (Genesis 12:4, he went to Canaan when he was 75. Confirmed by Genesis 16:3, 16, which says he lived in Canaan for ten years when he impregnated Hagar, and the next year, when he was 86, she gave birth to Ishmael.) Even if Genesis did say Abram lived in Haran for 23 years, it doesn't explain why you're subtracting it from the timeline. He did not enter Canaan when he was 52, he entered when he was 75.
4. This is not a satisfying answer, it is an evasion. Your Bible as written, the gospel of Luke, says Jesus' genealogy includes Cainan between Arpachshad and Selah. Luke's Bible as written, the Septuagint, included Cainan between Arpachshad and Selah. Why are you using a version of Genesis that contradicts what the evangelist used?
5. Think of this from the perspective of people outside yourself. They see you excluding the second Cainan, arbitrarily cutting 23 years, and inexplicably switching counting methods for the flood... And then they look at the Bible and they see Luke includes Cainan, they don't find 52 or 23 years mentioned anywhere, and they see you skipping Shem.
From the outside perspective, you're obviously starting with the idea that 2000 years must be meaningful just because it's a nice, round number, and then making up the rules of interpretation as you go to arrive at your desired conclusion.
Between the 100% failure rate of previous prophetic interpretations, and the really sketchy, overly convenient hermeneutic you use, it's really compelling not to believe your predictions. It's nothing to do with how "scary" any of it is. It's the inherently flawed premise.
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It is clear to me that you are a well schooled scholar of Theology. But are you really an agnostic?
I though; left school at age 15 and have never had any theological training.
1/ I switched nothing, I simply followed the Bible narrative.
2 & 3/ You make a wrong accusation; I said Abraham left Ur at age 52. I know this figure isn't Biblical, However it is logical and Abraham obeying God's command was a critical point in the Plan of the ages.
He and his family stayed in Haran for 23 years until Teruh died, at age 205; Genesis 11:32
4/ How can we resolve Bible anomalies? My suggestion is that Moses skipped Cainan and Reu and gave the years from father to grandson on those two instances.
5/ Yes people like yourself grasp at straws to refute anything that contradicts their beliefs.
Numbers. Do you think that numbers have no meaning or significance to God? If so you are very lonely.
The 7000 year Plan of God for His Creation, is a well known and is a viable scenario.
There was 4000 years from Adam to Jesus, now we are so close to the 600th year and then comes the Millennium reign of King Jesus.
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We're asking, why should your hermeneutic which has led you to make these predictions be trusted over every other hermeneutic that resulted in countless failed predictions?
Keraz always does this.
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Keraz always does this.
They make up the rules of interpretation as they go, or they say their predictions are completely legit and not going to fail without offering anything to stand out from all previous failed predictions?
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It is clear to me that you are a well schooled scholar of Theology. But are you really an agnostic?
Yes, I'm agnostic, and an ex-Christian. I have this displayed in my profile so others know where I'm coming from.
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Keraz always does this.
They make up the rules of interpretation as they go, or they say their predictions are completely legit and not going to fail without offering anything to stand out from all previous failed predictions?
A little from column "A" and a little from column "B".
I see it like this. The bible uses context. When a prophet relays God's word to a specific people at a specific time and place, and explicitly states it as such, then that is who the prophecy was meant for and that is what it means. It's not a free-for-all where any verse can mean anything. Yet that's exactly how many who claim "deeper understanding" will read it. And in the end it makes the bible meaningless, because any verse can mean anything you desire with a little imagination.
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That sums it up neatly. Any interpretation/doctine has to line with with the whole of the Word of God. If it doesn't then it's just...yeah. What you wrote.
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As the whole Word of God, the Bible; is a very large Book, we have to carefully study it and come to properly supported conclusions.
My conclusions about what God has planned, written in many articles and using many scriptures, are rejected by those who have already decided what they want God to do for them.
The Prophets will be vindicated and those who have failed to properly read and understand all of what God has told us thru His prophets; will be covered in shame.
I stand by the timeline as given to us in the Bible. The use of the known historical date of the Babylonian conquest of Judah, ties it to our current calendar.
Expect dramatic events soon, as the Prophetic Word is fulfilled.
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It seems to me that I asked you a very simple question which you ignored. Then again it's certainly possible that you missed it so I'll ask again: How does your timeline correlate with Matthew 24?
I haven't " already decided what they want God to do for them" in the least. I know that events will unfold just as Scripture says they will and, more importantly, I serve God not the other way around.
His will will be done and that's exactly what I want. It's your timeline I question simply because Jesus Himself stated that “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." AND Jesus also said "So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
God's word doesn't contradict itself. Either no man nor angle nor anyone except for The Father knows when these things will happen or we've been given a timeline in Scripture that contradicts what The Son plainly told us.
It can't be both can it? If I've misunderstood something show me what and why please. None of us are perfect so we all make mistakes brother.
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My conclusions about what God has planned, written in many articles and using many scriptures, are rejected by those who have already decided what they want God to do for them.
They're rejected by people who read the surrounding verses and realize that your conclusions are not based on what the bible says.
The Prophets will be vindicated and those who have failed to properly read and understand all of what God has told us thru His prophets; will be covered in shame.
That's not how prophecy works. It's not a riddle to be puzzled out. The main point of prophecy is to steer our behavior back to what God expects of us. Not for us to one-up each other based on who finds the most obscure possible meaning. Prophets were not fortune tellers, they delivered the word of God to the masses. Not to secretly inform only those who could "understand" them.
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1/ It seems to me that I asked you a very simple question which you ignored. Then again it's certainly possible that you missed it so I'll ask again: How does your timeline correlate with Matthew 24?
2/ I haven't " already decided what they want God to do for them" in the least. I know that events will unfold just as Scripture says they will and, more importantly, I serve God not the other way around.
3/ His will will be done and that's exactly what I want. It's your timeline I question simply because Jesus Himself stated that “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." AND Jesus also said "So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
1/ God's word doesn't contradict itself. Either no man nor angle nor anyone except for The Father knows when these things will happen or we've been given a timeline in Scripture that contradicts what The Son plainly told us.
It can't be both can it? If I've misunderstood something show me what and why please. None of us are perfect so we all make mistakes brother.
!/ We won't know the day or the hour... Matthew 24:36-37
Two things here; we can know the season, the approximate timing of the Day the Son of Man comes to change the world; the Sixth Seal disaster. and then at least 7 + years later; His Glorious Return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
There are two Days of the Lord; His terrible Day of fiery wrath, when He won't be seen, Habakkuk 3:4 and the Great Day of Almighty God, Revelation 16:14, when every eye will see Him. He will then reign as King over all the earth for the next 1000 years.
2/ Good for you, but many, many Christians have made that mistake and they fondly imagine they will be whisked outta here before ant testing or trials.
3/ All that we really can do is to stand firm in our faith and trust in Him for our protection.
4/ There is no contradictions in scripture, only misunderstandings!
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There are two Days of the Lord; His terrible Day of fiery wrath, when He won't be seen, Habakkuk 3:4
This is a pretty egregious misuse of that verse.
There's nothing "hidden" about what's happening in Habakkeuk 3. Verse 4 describes how the LORD's power was hidden in "his hand", but is now (contemporary to Habakkuk) shining out, impossible to miss, like a sunbeam.
The entire chapter is a poem that depicts the undeniable, visible arrival of the LORD with his war party to battle his enemies.
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They're rejected by people who read the surrounding verses and realize that your conclusions are not based on what the bible says.
That's not how prophecy works. It's not a riddle to be puzzled out. The main point of prophecy is to steer our behavior back to what God expects of us. Not for us to one-up each other based on who finds the most obscure possible meaning. Prophets were not fortune tellers, they delivered the word of God to the masses. Not to secretly inform only those who could "understand" them.
I have yet to see any proof that I am wrong in my use of the Prophetic Word. Preterist and Spiritualization ideas are false, most prophesies remain to be literally fulfilled.
There IS coming a sudden and shocking Day when the world will be changed and all the rest of Revelation from Chapter 7, will take place.
Jeremiah 6:10 To whom shall I speak, to whom give the warning? The people are incapable of listening, for they treat the Lord's Word as a reproach.
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There are two Days of the Lord; His terrible Day of fiery wrath, when He won't be seen, Habakkuk 3:4
This is a pretty egregious misuse of that verse.
There's nothing "hidden" about what's happening in Habakkeuk 3. Verse 4 describes how the LORD's power was hidden in "his hand", but is now (contemporary to Habakkuk) shining out, impossible to miss, like a sunbeam.
The entire chapter is a poem that depicts the undeniable, visible arrival of the LORD with his war party to battle his enemies.
Habakkuk 3:4 plainly says that when the Lord sends His wrath, He will be hidden; not be seen. Also Psalms 18:11, and Psalms 11:4-6 tells us He stays in heaven; sending His fiery wrath to destroy His enemies.
We will see that fire, feel the earthquakes, storms and tsunamis.
Yes; 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 does say the Lord will reveal Himself to His people. That will be soon after that Day, when His people have gathered into the holy Land. As we see in Revelation 14:1
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Habakkuk 3:4 plainly says that when the Lord sends His wrath, He will be hidden; not be seen.
And of course, Habakkuk 3:4 has zero literary connection to Habakkuk 3:1-3 or Habakkuk 3:5-19, the parts of the chapter which describe the LORD riding across the world to conquer his enemies.
God came from Teman,
the Holy One from Mount Paran.
Selah
His glory covered the heavens,
and the earth was full of his praise.
The brightness was like the sun;
rays came forth from his hand,
where his power lay hidden.
Before him went pestilence,
and plague followed close behind.
He stopped and shook the earth;
he looked and made the nations tremble.
The eternal mountains were shattered;
along his ancient pathways
the everlasting hills sank low.
I saw the tents of Cushan under affliction;
the tent-curtains of the land of Midian trembled.
Was your wrath against the rivers, O Lord?
Or your anger against the rivers,
or your rage against the sea,
when you drove your horses,
your chariots to victory?
You brandished your naked bow,
sated were the arrows at your command.
Selah
You split the earth with rivers.
The mountains saw you, and writhed;
a torrent of water swept by;
the deep gave forth its voice.
The sun raised high its hands;
the moon stood still in its exalted place,
at the light of your arrows speeding by,
at the gleam of your flashing spear.
In fury you trod the earth,
in anger you trampled nations.
He's marching over the earth, with his "glory covering the heavens" and his "brightness like the sun". I find it shocking a person can read this and conclude it's talking about something invisible and secret, based entirely on one word in one verse.
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I have yet to see any proof that I am wrong in my use of the Prophetic Word.
I have yet to see that you're correct in your use of the Prophetic Word. Has anything that you've predicted come true? Nope, not a single thing.
Jeremiah 6:10 To whom shall I speak, to whom give the warning? The people are incapable of listening, for they treat the Lord's Word as a reproach.
So now you're not only interpreting the prophets, but you're a prophet yourself? Very presumptuous.
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He's marching over the earth, with his "glory covering the heavens" and his "brightness like the sun". I find it shocking a person can read this and conclude it's talking about something invisible and secret, based entirely on one word in one verse.
I'll do you one better. The whole chapter is past tense. It's about things that have already occurred before Habakkuk's time. Now, the whole chapter is very poetic, so we'd have to read it in that context. But it's past events.
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Obviously I am not going to make any impression on people who don't want the prospect of a shocking worldwide disaster spoil their day.
Such a thing is graphically described in many Bible prophesies and it is easier to discount it than worry about it.
Fair enough; we shouldn't worry about the prospect of an event of similar magnitude as what happened in the days of Noah. Many have cried 'wolf' and then looked very silly.
But the Bible prophesies are clear; one day the Lord will arise and change the world. Isaiah 2:12-24, 2 Peter 3:7
We are told that we should be aware of what the Lord has planned for our future. To say I am wrong about prophesies that have yet to take place, is foolishness.
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Obviously I am not going to make any impression on people who don't want the prospect of a shocking worldwide disaster spoil their day.
Such a thing is graphically described in many Bible prophesies and it is easier to discount it than worry about it.
I'm honestly not worried. I trust in God.
But the Bible prophesies are clear; one day the Lord will arise and change the world. Isaiah 2:12-24
How about Isaiah 2:1-5
This is what Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:
In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.
Many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.
Nothing scary at all. A rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, with all the nations coming there to learn of God's ways. And there will be no more war. I could look forward to that.
We are told that we should be aware of what the Lord has planned for our future. To say I am wrong about prophesies that have yet to take place, is foolishness.
To say that you're right about anything when none of your predictions have come true yet is what, then?
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To say my predictions have failed, shows your gross bias and is tantamount to member abuse.
Firstly they are not my predictions, I just point out what the Prophets have told us.
Then to think they have failed because they haven't happened, is really childish. We await their fulfilment and those who have failed to take note of the warnings will be disadvantaged.
Isaiah 34:1-8 Attend to this warning, all you peoples! For the Lord’s anger is against all the nations and His wrath upon all their military might. He has given them over to slaughter and destruction. All their dead will cover the ground, the corpses and blood will stink.
On that Day, My sword will appear in heaven and the sky will roll up like a scroll. [Rev. 6:14] My sword, covered in blood will descend on peoples doomed for destruction, upon Bozrah [the sheepfold] and Edom. [the ungodly nations] For the Lord has a Day of vengeance, a time of retribution to uphold Zion’s cause. 2 Peter 3:10, Isaiah 66:15-16, Habakkuk 3:12, Zephaniah 1:14-18
Nahum 1:2-8 The Lord is a jealous God, a God of vengeance against His adversaries. He will not let the guilty go unpunished. His way is in the whirlwind and the storm, the earth is in tumult before Him, the world and all who live on it. Who can stand before His wrath? His rage pours out like fire, He makes an end to all who oppose Him. But, the Lord is a sure protection for those who make Him their refuge.
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To say my predictions have failed, shows your gross bias and is tantamount to member abuse.
Firstly they are not my predictions, I just point out what the Prophets have told us.
Then to think they have failed because they haven't happened, is really childish. We await their fulfilment and those who have failed to take note of the warnings will be disadvantaged.
So you're allowed to say that they haven't happened yet, but when I say they haven't happened yet, it's abusive. Got it.
Isaiah 34:1-8 Attend to this warning, all you peoples! For the Lord’s anger is against all the nations and His wrath upon all their military might. He has given them over to slaughter and destruction. All their dead will cover the ground, the corpses and blood will stink.
Again let's look at context. Isaiah 33 begins "Woe to you, destroyer, you who have not been destroyed! and continues "The Lord is exalted, for he dwells on high; he will fill Zion with his justice and righteousness." and "Look on Zion, the city of our festivals; your eyes will see Jerusalem, a peaceful abode, a tent that will not be moved" etc etc. The prophet is speaking of God punishing the nations that have plundered Jerusalem, not the world-at-large.
Nahum 1:2-8 The Lord is a jealous God, a God of vengeance against His adversaries. He will not let the guilty go unpunished. His way is in the whirlwind and the storm, the earth is in tumult before Him, the world and all who live on it. Who can stand before His wrath? His rage pours out like fire, He makes an end to all who oppose Him. But, the Lord is a sure protection for those who make Him their refuge.
LOL why are you starting with verse 2 and not verse 1? Because verse 1 says "A prophecy concerning Nineveh...."
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Obviously I am not going to make any impression on people who don't want the prospect of a shocking worldwide disaster spoil their day
Okay, you're being pretty dishonest about what's going on in this thread... and you know you are.
It has nothing to do with how "shocking" your predictions are.
It has to do with how severely you're misquoting and misusing the Bible, the evasive answers you give when things get too specific, and the way you pretend to know what others are thinking.
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The Earth will Burn: 2 Peter 3:7, Isaiah 66:15-16, Zeph. 3:8, Isaiah 33:10-12
In ancient times, God promised to Noah that He would never again destroy the earth with a flood. Genesis 9:11 But we see in Deuteronomy 32:34-35 & 22, God has kept in His storehouse a judgement of fire prepared and ready for His Day of vengeance.
As we are once again ‘as in the days of Noah’, this terrible and devastating Day of fires, storms and earthquakes will soon strike the world, it will be the next prophesied event that will commence all that must happen, leading up to the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign.
Psalms 46:1-11 The Lord is our refuge and stronghold, He will help us in trouble, so we are not afraid when the earth is shaking and the mountains move; when the waves of the sea roar and the earth is quaking before the Lords majesty. Nations are in an uproar and kingdoms fall when the Lord thunders; the earth burns.
Come and see what the Lord has done, the desolation He has brought on the earth. He makes wars to cease throughout the world, He breaks the bow, snaps the spear and burns the chariots in the fire.
There is a river whose flow brings joy to the city of God, the holy Place of the Most High. The Lord is within her, she will not be overthrown and at the break of Day, He will come to her aid.
Be still and know that I am God, I will be exalted among the nations and revered throughout the world. The Lord Almighty is with us, the God of Jacob is our Rock.
This describes how the Lord will judge and punish the nations and ‘the desolation He will bring to the earth’. He will destroy all weapons of war and military forces will be neutralized or wiped out, but the Lord promises ‘to be a refuge’ to His people, when at the ‘break of day, the sea roars, the earth quakes and burns’. It is His great Day of vengeance and wrath, a massive explosion of the suns surface that will bring about all the vividly described effects. We are warned to be prepared for that terrible Day, but our only true protection will be our faith and trust in the Lord. Isaiah 30:15 & 18
Isaiah 9:18-19 The ungodly will be set ablaze, as a fire that consumes briars and thorns. It sets the forests on fire and all is wrapped in a pall of smoke.
The land is scorched by the fury of the Lord and the people will be fuel for the fire. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Romans 1:18, Hebrews 10:27
Psalms 50:3-5 The Lord is coming and will not remain silent. A consuming fire runs ahead of Him and all around a great storm rages. He calls to the heavens above and the earth below, that He may judge His people.
Gather to Me, My loyal servants, those who have made a Covenant with Me by sacrifice. 1 Peter 3:17 Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.
This is not the Return of Jesus in His glory, that cannot happen until the Anti-Christ is revealed. 2 Thess. 2:3 It will be the Lord’s judgement and punishment of the nations, Psalms 110:5-6, Habakkuk 3:12, and all the world will be affected. It will be triggered by an attack on the State of Israel by an Islamic confederation. Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12
The Lord’s people will be judged, Jeremiah 46:27-28, 1 Peter 4:17 and those who are His ‘loyal servants’, will be protected. Zechariah 9:15-16, Joel 3:16, Psalms 37:9, Zephaniah 2:3, 2 Thess.1:6-10
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The Earth will Burn: Isaiah 66:15-16,
This is one of your "ignoring the context specialties". Isaiah 66 is talking about the exiles gathered to the land of Israel. Verse 10: Rejoice with Jerusalem and exult in her all those who love her. Verse 13: Like a man whose mother consoles him, so will I console you, and in Jerusalem, you shall be consoled. Verse 20: And they shall bring all your brethren from all the nations as a tribute to the Lord, with horses and with chariots, and with covered wagons and with mules and with joyous songs upon My holy mount, Jerusalem," says the Lord, "as the children of Israel bring the offering in a pure vessel to the house of the Lord. "
This is an optimistic chapter, it's not about God burning the earth down, which is nowhere in the text.
Zeph. 3:8,
Same here
Verse 14: Sing, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O Israel! Rejoice and jubilate wholeheartedly, O daughter of Jerusalem! Verse 17: he Lord your God is in your midst-a Mighty One Who will save. He will rejoice over you with joy. He will be silent in His love. He will jubilate over you with song. Verse 19:Behold, I wreak destruction upon all those who afflict you at that time. Verse 20: I will make you a name and a praise among all the peoples of the earth when I restore your captivities before your eyes, said the Lord.
It's the oppressors of Israel that God is speaking of, not the whole world.
Isaiah 33:10-12
Verse 14: Sinners in Zion were afraid
This chapter is a warning for Israel, not the whole world.
In ancient times, God promised to Noah that He would never again destroy the earth with a flood. Genesis 9:11 But we see in Deuteronomy 32:34-35 & 22, God has kept in His storehouse a judgement of fire prepared and ready for His Day of vengeance.
Vengeance against whom? Your vision of God is quite disturbing. He just wants to burn billions of people? Deuteronomy 32 is a warning to the Jews. Read the chapter. It has nothing what so ever to do with the rest of the world. Settle down.
This describes how the Lord will judge and punish the nations and ‘the desolation He will bring to the earth’.
It's a poem by the sons of Korah, about trusting in God no matter what happens. It's not a prophecy about anything at all.
Isaiah 30:15 & 18
Whole chapter is about Israel. Read it, not just verse 15 and 18.
Isaiah 9:18-19 The ungodly will be set ablaze, as a fire that consumes briars and thorns. It sets the forests on fire and all is wrapped in a pall of smoke.
Verse 7: The Lord has sent a word against Jacob, and it has fallen in Israel.
This isn't addressed to the "ungodly", its addressed to Israel.
And on and on and on. The bible wasn't meant to be read as isolated verses, but as books as a whole.
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When people see how some reject and deny what scripture tells us, they will be discredited and ignored.
It is generally accepted that the Psalms do contain a fair amount of prophecy; warnings about events yet to happen.
We know from Psalms 46 and many other prophesies, that the Lord WILL send fire to burn and make the earth desolate. I believe that 'eretz', translated as 'earth' here and elsewhere, also as 'land', refers to the Middle East region, not to the whole world. Zephaniah 1:14-18 puts it better.
I read and know the whole Bible quite well. My more that 800 articles mostly on the Prophetic Word prove it
So I can post them every day for the next 2 + years. Would that convince anyone?
No; of course not, the only way for those who reject the truths of Prophecy, will be when things do start to happen. THEN the eyes will be opened and the ears unstopped. Isaiah 32:3-4, Isaiah 42:18-20, Isaiah 29:18
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When people see how some reject and deny what scripture tells us, they will be discredited and ignored.
Nobody is rejecting scripture. They're rejecting your own, personal interpretation of scripture. You reject the way other people understand scripture literally all the time. Does that mean that you're rejecting scripture, too?
It is generally accepted that the Psalms do contain a fair amount of prophecy; warnings about events yet to happen.
"Generally accepted" by whom? "Warnings" about what? It's all doom and gloom to you, everything is a warning.
We know from Psalms 46 and many other prophesies, that the Lord WILL send fire to burn and make the earth desolate.
We know of no such thing. I know you have this idea that God is going to destroy nonbelievers in a giant fire, and you search high and low in the bible for proof of this. But maybe you should read what the bible says, without expectations, than go in looking for what you already believe.
I believe that 'eretz', translated as 'earth' here and elsewhere, also as 'land', refers to the Middle East region, not to the whole world.
It means nothing of the sort. You're inventing your own language now. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ God only created the middle east? Who created the rest of the planet?
Zephaniah 1:14-18 puts it better.
No, it doesn't. It isn't a prophecy for a distant time meant for the whole world. It's a warning for the people of Judea who lived at that time. The chapter's repeated references to Judah and Jerusalem make this obvious.
I read and know the whole Bible quite well. My more that 800 articles mostly on the Prophetic Word prove it
Just because you write a lot of articles doesn't make them true or correct.
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I point out a lot of prophecy. clearly stated things that remain to be fulfilled.
The tell about terrifying events and disasters, that I agree; we shouldn't be fixated on, but someone needs to put out the warning and try to explain what God has said He will do. Pastors and Bible scholars don't do it, they avoid the subject altogether. Of the few who do, John Hagee for example, most promote weird and sci-fi scenarios.
My message to you and all who will listen is; Be prepared for dramatic changes, stand firm in your faith and look forward to the amazing completion of Almighty God's wonderful Plan for mankind.
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I point out a lot of prophecy. clearly stated things that remain to be fulfilled.
You also point out a lot of prophecy about things that were fulfilled long ago. The prophets first and foremost spoke to the Jews of their generation. They warned them that if they did not repent and stop idolatry and wicked behavior, they would be punished, culminating in their cities being destroyed and the land being left barren. They were warned of being exiled. And all those events actually took place, some 2600 years ago.
Now, some prophecies were also of the distant future. Some have occurred in our lifetime, like the ingathering of the Jewish exiles back to the land of Israel. Some have yet to occur, like universal peace and knowledge of God.
But we have to be able to distinguish between the two types of prophecies. And we can, by reading the verses in context of the entire chapter. As I urge you to do.
The tell about terrifying events and disasters, that I agree; we shouldn't be fixated on, but someone needs to put out the warning and try to explain what God has said He will do.
Why do you think we need warnings? If we're all here and all God-fearing, what purpose do these warnings serve? Or have you appointed yourself to this role for reasons that have to do with you and not us?
Pastors and Bible scholars don't do it, they avoid the subject altogether. Of the few who do, John Hagee for example, most promote weird and sci-fi scenarios.
I'm rather fond of Pastor Hagee myself. What is it that you don't like about him? That he's a Christian Zionist?
My message to you and all who will listen is; Be prepared for dramatic changes, stand firm in your faith and look forward to the amazing completion of Almighty God's wonderful Plan for mankind.
And that's fine.
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I point out a lot of prophecy. clearly stated things that remain to be fulfilled.
You find secret messages in individual words in verses you've isolated from their context, and claim to be the only person who has found those messages in order to reveal them, but you do so as vaguely as can be done without actually providing anything substantial or new for anyone to get a solid grip on, and then make up excuses why others don't find your predictions convincing.
It's extremely... gnostic, if I can say so directly.
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Here is the substantial and revealed story of God's Plans for our future: Believe it or not.
It is obvious to anyone who looks at the situation in the Middle East, that there is nothing man can do that will resolve the critical issues there.
God will use people’s actions and His creation to achieve His purposes, as in the past, so according to Bible prophesy: at the point of attack onto Israel, God will intervene with an explosion of the suns surface, Isaiah 30:26, Psalms 50:1-3, that will affect all the world, but in particular all the area of the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:43
It is clear, from all the prophesied graphic descriptions: that this will be a terrible devastation by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis and the result will virtually depopulate the entire Middle East. Ezekiel 30:2-5, Jeremiah 10:18
This event is the great and terrible Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 66:15-16, Zephaniah 1: 14-18 & 3:8, Amos 1 & 2:1-5, Revelation 6:12-17
Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace. All evildoers will be as stubble.
Isaiah 66:15-16 The Lord coming in fire... many will be slain by Him.
Isaiah 9:18 The land is scorched by the Lord, the people are fuel for the fire.
Ezekiel 29:45-48, Hebrews 10:27, 2 Peter 3:7 It is also the Sixth Seal judgement as described in Revelation 6:12-17, Jeremiah 4:25-29, Isaiah 2:12-22
Many prophecies tell of the final judgement of Judah: Jeremiah 7:20 I will pour out My anger on Judah, man and beast, trees and crops, they will burn unquenched. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:14
Psalm 83:1-18 describes very well how the State of Israel’s enemies plot against them, and what will happen to them. Micah 4:11-12 A remnant of Jewish believers will survive in Jerusalem. Isaiah 4:3, Isaiah 6:11-12, Zechariah 13:8-9
After that: Ezekiel 36:8 But you, Land of Israel, put forth your branches and yield fruit for My people, Righteous Israel, for their homecoming is near. Zechariah 8:11-13, Amos 9:13-15
All of the Lord’s people will be gathered into the holy Land. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31 The Lord will then judge His people and only the righteous Christian believers will settle in the Promised Land.
They will establish the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 66:7-14
Ezekiel 20:35-38 I shall make you pass under the rod of Judgement…..those who revolt and rebel will not enter the holy Land. Isaiah 35:8-9
Isaiah 1:25-28.Once again, I shall act against you, to purge away all your impurities. Gods people, [the Christian Israel of God, Galatians 6:16], will settle and become prosperous in a blessed and fertile land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-31
Ezekiel 39:25-29 The Lord says; now I shall restore the fortunes of Jacob. [Who are now spiritual Israel, people qualified by faith, not by ethnicity. Galatians 3:26-29]
They will forget their shame and unfaithfulness when they live once more safely in their inheritance. [Romans 8:14-17] When I gather them from all the lands, they will be an example to the nations of My Holiness. They will acknowledge Me as their God, when they all live in their heritage; the Promised Land. I will no longer hide Myself from them, I who have poured out My Spirit upon them.
After a few years, God will motivate the leader of a Northern alliance to prepare for war and attack Israel. God will destroy the entire army with fire, earthquakes and causing them to fight each other. Ezekiel 38 & 39, the Gog from Magog attack.
Joel 2:20 I shall remove the Northern peril far from you and banish them into the desert. Half of the army: by the Mediterranean and the other half by the Dead Sea.
The stench and foul smell from them will rise up. He has done great things!
This He will do in order to; Ezekiel 39:21-22 ... display My glory to the nations... From that day forward, the Israelites will know that I am the Lord their God
Note; that the Lord will make Himself known by His actions to His righteous people, and to the world, but not by His presence until His Return in glory at the commencement of His Millennial reign. After the armies of this Northern alliance are destroyed, the people of Beulah [Isaiah 62:1-5] will send out teams to collect the dead. They will be buried in the valley of Wadi al Mawjib, East of the Dead Sea. This will take seven months, then seven years is needed to finally clear up all the debris of the army. This tremendous defeat of a very large and well equipped army, will have dramatic repercussions. On top of the already huge disruptions caused by the previous worldwide devastation – food and oil shortages, economic crisis, refugee problems, etc. The world’s leaders will meet and the most logical way to address all the issues, is to form a One World government. Daniel 7:23-24, Rev 17:12-13. Initially ten rulers will share the authority, but after a short while, they will confer their power onto one man. The President of this World Alliance will be a charismatic and strong leader, he will quickly take dictatorial powers over it. Daniel 11:21
Meanwhile, in Jerusalem, construction of the Third Temple will be completed, Zech. 6:15, Revelation 11:1, and the Shekinah glory of God will enter it. Ezekiel 43:2
12,000 missionaries will be selected from each of the 12 divisions of Beulah and they will go out in pairs to every people group in the world to preach the gospel of Gods Kingdom to come. Isaiah 66:19, Revelation 7:3-8 As was done before: Luke 10:1-10
Beulah will not join the One World government, but in order to maintain peaceful relations, Beulah will sign a seven year peace treaty with them. Daniel 9:27
After 3½ years, the world leader will be assassinated, but his body will be taken over by Satan. Revelation 13:3-4 He will come in force to Beulah, Zechariah 14:1-2, and establish worship of himself in the Temple. Matthew 24:15 So, when you see the ‘abomination of desolation’ standing in the Holy place as prophesied by Daniel 7:25…
He will defy the Most High and will persecute the holy people of God. They will be in his power for 3½ years. Rev 13:9-10.
In Rev 12:6, it says that there will be a place of safety for some of Gods people, those who stood firm in their faith. Daniel 11:32b, Matthew 24:15-21.
During this last 3½ year period, the Great Tribulation of the Seven Trumpets and the Seven Bowls of God’s wrath poured upon the earth will cause terrible destruction and deaths to the ungodly peoples. Matthew 24:21-22, Revelation 16:11
It all culminates in the Battle of Armageddon – Revelation 16:16. That is when the Lord Jesus will return to the earth in His glory and destroys those armies in His mighty power. Rev. 19:15 & Zechariah 14:3-5. Lucifer (Satan) will be chained and imprisoned and Jesus will rule the world for 1000 years. Then, Satan will be released for a short time. He will seduce the nations and will muster them for war, a vast army from all around the world. They will lay siege to Gods City. Fire comes down from heaven and cremates them all. Satan is thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:7-9
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After that is the Great White Throne judgement of all people and the angels. Revelation 20:11-14, Daniel 7:9-10
THEN comes Eternity, a Spiritual realm where all who enter it will be immortal and will live with God forever.
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This is every Left Behind outline of the last hundred years. There is nothing substantial about it. Just more vague non-predictions, often where the motivations of people or nations have no purpose except to circularly fulfill the prophecy being made.
It's just the same thing failed predictions have relied on for over a century: grab dozens of verses from across different books and mash them together because they share one word in common and nothing else.
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That's the thing about Bible Prophecy, it's better than sci-fi fiction!
Many of them have come true as written, such as Jesus being born in Bethlehem and His entry into Jerusalem riding on a donkey.
I confidently expect the rest to be literally fulfilled, excepting the obvious metaphors and allegories, as well.
I stand by the narrative of history before it happens, as I have posted.
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Here is the substantial and revealed story of God's Plans for our future: Believe it or not.
I'm not going to wade though all this. It's exhausting and won't lead anywhere. But you keep doing the same thing, again and again. You take a single verse, ignoring the surrounding verses, and posit it to mean what you want. I'll address a single example:
Jeremiah 10:18
Let's look at Jeremiah 10, verse 1: "Hear what the Lord says to you, people of Israel."
Jeremiah 10 is a warning to the ancient Jews, prior to the destruction of the temple and the Babylonian exile. God is warning them that if they don't mend their ways, " I will hurl out those who live in this land". And that came true- in 586BC. 2500 years ago. It's not a warning for anyone today. Get it? Got it? Good.
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Of course you won't read what I have shown is God's plans for the future. Supported by many scriptures.
It might pollute your mind, even make you think of unclean and impure ideas. That is: according to your beliefs.
Jeremiah 10:1-23, is actually a warning to Israel and to believers today: not to follow the ways of the heathens.
Babylon is never mentioned and verse 10 cannot apply to their conquest of Judah,
It says the holy Land will be depopulated, which did not happen then. 2 Kings 25:12
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Of course you won't read what I have shown is God's plans for the future.
No, you have shown what you believe to be God's plans for the future.
Supported by many scriptures.
All invariably taken out of context.
It might pollute your mind, even make you think of unclean and impure ideas. That is: according to your beliefs.
I'm an open minded fellow and I've had plenty of unclean ideas before I even met you.
Jeremiah 10:1-23, is actually a warning to Israel and to believers today: not to follow the ways of the heathens.
Babylon is never mentioned and verse 10 cannot apply to their conquest of Judah,
Of course it does. You like linking together biblical texts, so follow this line of thinking:
Jeremiah 10:22 Listen! The report is coming-- a great commotion from the land of the north! It will make the towns of Judah desolate, a haunt of jackals.
What's coming from the north? It's Babylon. How do I know this? Because of Jeremiah 25: 8-9 Therefore this is what the LORD of Hosts says: "Because you have not obeyed My words, I will summon all the peoples of the north and my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon," declares the LORD, "and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants and against all the surrounding nations. I will completely destroy them and make them an object of horror and scorn, and an everlasting ruin."
It says the holy Land will be depopulated, which did not happen then. 2 Kings 25:12
Again see the above. Nebuchadnezzar and his armies devastated the land. It doesn't mean every single person there had to be dead.
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Jeremiah 10:1-23, is actually a warning to Israel and to believers today
It super totally isn't.
Verses 3-4 describe a religious custom of local polytheists. How many polytheists are there in Israel today?
Verse 9 refers imports from Tarshish and Uphaz. These places don't exist anymore.
Verse 14-16 mentions crafters of idols and images. The use of physical deity-images is extremely rare in modern societies, let alone in Israel.
Babylon is never mentioned and verse 10 cannot apply to their conquest of Judah,
Jeremiah identifies Babylon as "the north" multiple times in his book, and "the north" is mentioned in verse 22.
Verse 18 says "the inhabitants of the land" will be exiled. Verse 22 identifies the land as "Judah". Your Left Behind timeline threatens all of Israel with genocide, which is not the same thing as exile.
As with all the other verses you've used, you fixate on a single verse and entirely ignore every other detail in the surrounding context.
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I quite understand the rejection of Bible prophecy truths here.
Applying them to today would ruin your whole week!
I could refute all your opinionated objections, but for people who believe nothing much of the Old Testament has any relevance to today, it would be a waste of my time.
All I ask is that others viewing this thread to please consider carefully what the Prophets have comprehensively informed us will happen and when it does; know it was the Lord who has acted.
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I could refute all your opinionated objections
And yet all you've done is attack the character of everyone who disagrees with you.
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I could refute all your opinionated objections, but for people who believe nothing much of the Old Testament has any relevance to today, it would be a waste of my time.
Whoa whoa whoa. I didn't say that nothing of my bible is pertinent today. I said that prophecies that you were reading didn't apply to today. How about one that's in the process of happening during our lifetime?
Ezekiel 37
Thus saith the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, whither they are gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be king to them all; and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all; neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will save them out of all their dwelling-places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them; so shall they be My people, and I will be their God. And My servant David shall be king over them, and they all shall have one shepherd; they shall also walk in Mine ordinances, and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob My servant, wherein your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, they, and their children, and their children's children, for ever; and David My servant shall be their prince for ever. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them--it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will establish them, and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in the midst of them for ever. My dwelling-place also shall be over them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And the nations shall know that I am the LORD that sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for ever.'
After 2000 years of exile, some of this has already occurred. Jews from more than 100 lands have returned to their homeland, the state of Israel. There aren't two kingdoms, but a single one. The rest I pray will happen soon, speedily, within our lifetime. But if it doesn't, it will happen in the lifetime of my children. Of this I am certain.
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After 2000 years of exile, some of this has already occurred. Jews from more than 100 lands have returned to their homeland, the state of Israel. There aren't two kingdoms, but a single one. The rest I pray will happen soon, speedily, within our lifetime. But if it doesn't, it will happen in the lifetime of my children. Of this I am certain.
I do not see any of Ezekiel 37 being fulfilled yet.
The House of Israel, the ten Northern tribes remain scattered among the nations. the peoples making Aliyah all seem to be 'wannabe Jews', just escaping their failed countries. None of those who call themselves Jews, in or out of the Land, have any genuine proof of their ancestry.
All the Jewish genealogy records were destroyed in 70AD.
2000 years = 50 generations; the reality is that there would be very few, if any; pure Jewish people.
The forthcoming rejoining and gathering into all of the holy Land, will by by people of faith. People from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10
The people described in Isaiah 51:1-2
Agnostic, I don't attack character, I question beliefs.
Ideas and theories that contradict what the Word of God tell us. Rejecting that Word, leaves us in a terrible morass of doubt and confusion.
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I do not see any of Ezekiel 37 being fulfilled yet.
Of course you don't. Because it's obvious. You don't like the obvious. It has to be hidden, so only you could find it.
The House of Israel, the ten Northern tribes remain scattered among the nations. the peoples making Aliyah all seem to be 'wannabe Jews', just escaping their failed countries. None of those who call themselves Jews, in or out of the Land, have any genuine proof of their ancestry.
All the Jewish genealogy records were destroyed in 70AD.
2000 years = 50 generations; the reality is that there would be very few, if any; pure Jewish people.
Lol I love this. When they were looking for the descendants of the people at Jesus's crucifixion, so they could oppress them, everyone knew who the Jews were. But now that biblical prophecy is being fulfilled with the Jews back in their homeland, they're not the "real Jews". Because only you get to decide who is or isn't Jewish.
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In the 36th chapter of Ezekiel, the prophet tells the story of how all the Lord’s people, Christian Israelites, of Judah, Israel and people grafted in: are gathered, redeemed and settled into all of the holy Land.
However, before then, the story unfolds;
Isaiah 41:1 - Keep silent before Me you coasts and islands....
Five steps are mentioned here by the prophet; keep silent – When ancient Israel migrated from their captivity in Assyria, they remained hidden until they regained their strength and became as 'many as the sands of the sea'.
Then, let them come near – awaken to the true gospel, evangelism from John Wycliffe to Billy Graham, etc.
Let them speak – proclaim the good news around the world.
Still to come is: ‘Let us meet in the place of judgement’ Isaiah 41:8-9 God will soon call His people back to the Land, where the administration of His commandments and Laws will be restored. Ezekiel 36:27
Jeremiah 3:8 Israel and Judah divorced from God and sent into captivity for their sins.
God took Ezekiel in a vision to a valley full of dry bones;
Ezekiel 37:11 These bones are the whole house of Israel [All the 12 tribes] They say: our hope is gone, we are cut off. [from God]
Ezekiel 37:9-10 The Lord God says: let the winds [Gods spirit] come and breath into
the slain [dead to the Gospel] that they might live. They came to life and stood up- a mighty company! [of Christians]
Ezekiel 37:12-13 I will bring you up from your graves [our present spiritually lost condition] and restore you to the Land of Israel.
None of this prophecy applies to the Jewish State of Israel.
Through Isaiah, God gives a message to the House of Israel, identifying them as a people who have lost the knowledge of their origin and forgotten their ancestors:
Isaiah 51:1-2 Listen to Me, all you who know the Law [the common Judeo-Christian Law of our countries] You who seek the Lord [Christian peoples] consider your origin, where you came from- Abraham and Sarah are your parents. I blessed them and now you are their offspring. Galatians 6:14-16
God is looking forward to the day when the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus is completed. His sacrifice of atonement and salvation is made available to all who accept it and acknowledge their Creator. Everyone who has the faith of Abraham, is deemed to be his offspring. Galatians 3:26-29 One of the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
The great awakening of all the Israelites is symbolically represented as life from the
dead, for through the Resurrection of Jesus, God demonstrates His power and then does this;
Ezekiel 37:14 I shall put My spirit into you and you will live. [a true Godly life] Thus you will know that I, the Lord has acted and spoken.
After that: Ezekiel 37:26-28 I shall make an everlasting covenant with Israel. My sanctuary will be in their midst, I will be their God and they will be My people.
The Glory of God will be present in the new Temple, as in ancient times. Ezekiel 43:1-4
The Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign comes at least 7 years later. .
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In the 36th chapter of Ezekiel, the prophet tells the story of how all the Lord’s people, Christian Israelites, of Judah, Israel and people grafted in: are gathered, redeemed and settled into all of the holy Land.
Actually, it just says "Israel". It doesn't say anything about them being "Christian". But you be you.
However, before then, the story unfolds;
Isaiah 41:1 - Keep silent before Me you coasts and islands....
Five steps are mentioned here by the prophet; keep silent – When ancient Israel migrated from their captivity in Assyria, they remained hidden until they regained their strength and became as 'many as the sands of the sea'.
Then, let them come near – awaken to the true gospel, evangelism from John Wycliffe to Billy Graham, etc.
Let them speak – proclaim the good news around the world.
Still to come is: ‘Let us meet in the place of judgement’ Isaiah 41:8-9 God will soon call His people back to the Land, where the administration of His commandments and Laws will be restored. Ezekiel 36:27
The subject in Isaiah 41:1 is not Israel, but the other nations. "Keep silence before Me, O islands..." but then when we get to verse 8 it reads "But thou, Israel, My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham My friend..."
There isn't any great mystery here, just the plain text. Why make it more complicated when it isn't necessary?
Jeremiah 3:8 Israel and Judah divorced from God and sent into captivity for their sins.
Actually, verse 8 only mentions that Israel was given a bill of divorce. Not Judah. And sure enough, Israel was exiled and lost to history. Judah, on the other hand, is exiled but remains known, and, in fact, comes back to the land 70 years later. It's not a trivial point.
God took Ezekiel in a vision to a valley full of dry bones;
Ezekiel 37:11 These bones are the whole house of Israel [All the 12 tribes] They say: our hope is gone, we are cut off. [from God]
Ezekiel 37:9-10 The Lord God says: let the winds [Gods spirit] come and breath into
the slain [dead to the Gospel] that they might live. They came to life and stood up- a mighty company! [of Christians]
Ezekiel 37:12-13 I will bring you up from your graves [our present spiritually lost condition] and restore you to the Land of Israel.
None of this prophecy applies to the Jewish State of Israel.
It doesn't? 2500 years ago, prophets said that the Jews would come back to the land. And this came true. It's obvious. You've never met a Hittite or a Moabite or a Babylonian, because they're all dead and gone. But the Jews have returned to their ancestral homeland, speaking the same language, practicing the same religion, reading the same holy books, celebrating the same holidays as their ancestors did 3000 years ago. It's a miracle and we should praise God every day that He keeps His word!
Isaiah 51:1-2 Listen to Me, all you who know the Law [the common Judeo-Christian Law of our countries] You who seek the Lord [Christian peoples] consider your origin, where you came from- Abraham and Sarah are your parents. I blessed them and now you are their offspring.
Are you tampering with the bible? Are you adding words that God didn't say? This is a most serious sin.
God is looking forward to the day when the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus is completed. His sacrifice of atonement and salvation is made available to all who accept it and acknowledge their Creator. Everyone who has the faith of Abraham, is deemed to be his offspring. Galatians 3:26-29 One of the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
This isn't holy writ to me. You may quote it but don't expect me to accept it as proof.
The great awakening of all the Israelites is symbolically represented as life from the
dead, for through the Resurrection of Jesus, God demonstrates His power and then does this;
Ezekiel 37:14 I shall put My spirit into you and you will live. [a true Godly life] Thus you will know that I, the Lord has acted and spoken.
Tampering with God's word yet again? Tsk Tsk.
After that: Ezekiel 37:26-28 I shall make an everlasting covenant with Israel. My sanctuary will be in their midst, I will be their God and they will be My people.
This will happen, soon, speedily within our days.
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After that: Ezekiel 37:26-28 I shall make an everlasting covenant with Israel. My sanctuary will be in their midst, I will be their God and they will be My people. Quote Keraz
This will happen, soon, speedily within our days. Quote Fenris
This I fully agree with.
Three things mentioned:
1/ An everlasting Covenant with Israel. A lot of people, Christians; believe this Covenant was made in the first Century, at the Last Supper, or when the Disciples received the holy Spirit at Pentecost. They are wrong.
It awaits the time when all the families of Israel are gathered into all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 31:1 and then Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:8-12 will come to pass.
2/ The new Temple will be built in Jerusalem, to the glory of God. Zechariah 6:15
3/ many prophesies, esp in Ezekiel say how His people will know the Lord by His actions, not yet by His Presence.
As it was with the ancient Israelites. All these things will happen before Jesus Returns, then the Millennium will be quite a different situation, as per Zechariah 14:16-21
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This I fully agree with.
Three things mentioned:
1/ An everlasting Covenant with Israel. A lot of people, Christians; believe this Covenant was made in the first Century, at the Last Supper, or when the Disciples received the holy Spirit at Pentecost. They are wrong.
It awaits the time when all the families of Israel are gathered into all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 31:1 and then Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:8-12 will come to pass.
Yes, this covenant is yet to come. So we agree on that.
2/ The new Temple will be built in Jerusalem, to the glory of God. Zechariah 6:15
Agree, there will be a third temple built in Jerusalem. Ezekiel 40-48 describes it in great detail.
3/ many prophesies, esp in Ezekiel say how His people will know the Lord by His actions, not yet by His Presence.
As it was with the ancient Israelites. All these things will happen before Jesus Returns, then the Millennium will be quite a different situation, as per Zechariah 14:16-21
Specifically we await verse 9 "And the Lord shall become King over all the earth; on that day shall the Lord be one, and His name one."
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Thanks Fenris, we do agree on many things.
Points 1 and 2 will happen before Jesus Returns.
Point 3, Zechariah 14:9 and all of Zechariah 14:3-21, will take place after the Lord is physically present.
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Thanks Fenris, we do agree on many things.
Points 1 and 2 will happen before Jesus Returns.
Point 3, Zechariah 14:9 and all of Zechariah 14:3-21, will take place after the Lord is physically present.
Keraz,
I have a few questions.
What calendar are you going by? Gregorian or Jewish-Hebrew calendar?
And...
If the sixth seal is next on the agenda, that means the first five have already opened. Can you tell me what events fulfilled seals 1-5?
I didn't read every reply on the thread so forgive me if you've already answered.
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Thanks Fenris, we do agree on many things.
Points 1 and 2 will happen before Jesus Returns.
Point 3, Zechariah 14:9 and all of Zechariah 14:3-21, will take place after the Lord is physically present.
Keraz,
I have a few questions.
What calendar are you going by? Gregorian or Jewish-Hebrew calendar?
And...
If the sixth seal is next on the agenda, that means the first five have already opened. Can you tell me what events fulfilled seals 1-5?
I didn't read every reply on the thread so forgive me if you've already answered.
My normal life is timed to the Gregorian calendar.
My Spiritual life is timed to God's calendar, which started with day one, when Adam received his soul/spirit.
Give or take a year or two, we are now at year 5991 since Adam. As added from the Bible time periods and from historical facts.
The Jewish calendar has an error of about 240 years missing. They actually admit this.
The first five Seals were opened by Jesus at His Ascension.
We have experienced terrible wars, famines, plagues and economic disasters since then. Much worse and mankind would not have survived.
The Fifth Seal is open, proved by all the martyrs since Stephen and continuing today.
The Sixth Seal is the great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, the forthcoming reset of our civilization. As He did before, in the days of Noah.
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Thanks Fenris, we do agree on many things.
Points 1 and 2 will happen before Jesus Returns.
Point 3, Zechariah 14:9 and all of Zechariah 14:3-21, will take place after the Lord is physically present.
I have a few questions.
What calendar are you going by? Gregorian or Jewish-Hebrew calendar?
And...
If the sixth seal is next on the agenda, that means the first five have already opened. Can you tell me what events fulfilled seals 1-5?
I didn't read every reply on the thread so forgive me if you've already answered.
My normal life is timed to the Gregorian calendar.
My Spiritual life is timed to God's calendar, which started with day one, when Adam received his soul/spirit.
Give or take a year or two, we are now at year 5991 since Adam. As added from the Bible time periods and from historical facts.
The Jewish calendar has an error of about 240 years missing. They actually admit this.
The first five Seals were opened by Jesus at His Ascension.
We have experienced terrible wars, famines, plagues and economic disasters since then. Much worse and mankind would not have survived.
The Fifth Seal is open, proved by all the martyrs since Stephen and continuing today.
The Sixth Seal is the great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, the forthcoming reset of our civilization. As He did before, in the days of Noah.
The four horsemen are end-time prophetic indicators. They open just prior to the tribulation as an indication of bigger more serious things to come. They give us the 'opening signs' of the end-times and show us that the fulfillment of the rest of the book of Revelation is upon us.
Each horse has a rider that I think can be identified by the event and circumstances associated with the seal. To say these seals opened centuries ago defeats their purpose of even being called a seal.
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I proved that the first five Seals must be open now.
The Fifth Seal refers to all the martyrs since Stephen, the millions whose souls are kept under the Altar in heaven. Revelation 6:9-11
We await the Sixth Seal world changer. It will be triggered by an attempt to wipe Israel off the map.
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I proved that the first five Seals must be open now.
The Fifth Seal refers to all the martyrs since Stephen, the millions whose souls are kept under the Altar in heaven. Revelation 6:9-11
We await the Sixth Seal world changer. It will be triggered by an attempt to wipe Israel off the map.
Can you direct me to the page where you 'proved' the first five seals are opened? I agree with the fifth seal but that seal appears to be kind of a silent one.
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That people fail to see it is because they have already decided what they want God to do for them, or else it is just the general apathy and avoidance of the Prophetic Word of Christians and most pastors.
Or maybe you're just wrong. Maybe these people understand the eschatological significance of their lives here-and-now and don't fixate on, for example, end-times wet dreams of Israel getting nuked. Maybe this next prophecy of yours has already been heard before in recent memory: World War I? World War II? The cold war?
The world is always on the brink, but I guess someone is going to be just lucky enough to be peddling their wares when - if as understood - it actually happens, and then they'll be the person to claim, when the nukes drop, 'see, I told you all!' Obviously, this would be the most appropriate moment to bathe in the knowledge that one was right -- as the death toll rises.
I'm convinced nukes are used somewhere - sometime since they are prophesied in Zechariah and the Revelation 17 beast burns the harlot with fire which is likely a nuke.
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I proved that the first five Seals must be open now.
The Fifth Seal refers to all the martyrs since Stephen, the millions whose souls are kept under the Altar in heaven. Revelation 6:9-11
We await the Sixth Seal world changer. It will be triggered by an attempt to wipe Israel off the map.
Can you direct me to the page where you 'proved' the first five seals are opened? I agree with the fifth seal but that seal appears to be kind of a silent one.
The proof that the first four Seals are open, is the historical record. The terrible wars, the disastrous famines, the shocking plagues, the economic failures; all could hardly have been any worse, or mankind would not have survived.
Obviously the Fifth is open. So the first four must be too!
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I'm convinced nukes are used somewhere - sometime since they are prophesied in Zechariah and the Revelation 17 beast burns the harlot with fire which is likely a nuke.
On the Day of the Lord's wrath by fire from the sun, all weapons of war will be destroyed. The massive Electro-Magnetic Pulse of the big Coronal Mass Ejection will do it. Hosea 2:18, Psalms 46:9, Psalms 73:6
God will not allow nukes to pollute the holy Land.
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Abraham went to Canaan at year 2000, Jesus was Crucified at year 4000 and He will Return at year 6000.
Also, since this timeline is the only clear, falsifiable claim being made in a Bible Talk thread, we should look at it.
With timelines like this, it's always wise to consider why the specific anchor points are chosen. The outlier here is Abraham going into Canaan. What's it got to do with anything? Why not the year when Isaac was born? Or Jacob? Or the exodus? Likewise, how do we possibly know what year Jesus was crucified? The gospels don't provide enough information. The narrowest range we can determine is 29-36 AD.
Timelines like this also require adding up the patriarchs' ages in Genesis 5, 6, 11, and 12. The Masoretic, Septuagint, and Samaritan versions of Genesis vary considerably on these numbers, especially for the antediluvian patriarchs. (This is because all three text traditions try to solve the problem of several patriarchs surviving the flood in the vorlage.) No matter which text tradition we use, none of them put Abraham's journey to Canaan in the year 2000. In the Masoretic, Abram entered Canaan around year 2021. (Weird coincidence.) In the Samaritan, he entered around year 2322. In the Septuagint, year 3257. In the vorlage, year 2357. The closest version is the Masoretic, off by just 21 years, but this can't be the version we use, because Jesus' genealogy in Luke 3 includes Cainan son of Arpachshad and father of Shelah, who is only mentioned in the Septuagint.
The timeline just doesn't work. The clearest gospel, Luke, follows the Septuagint version of Genesis, putting Abram's entry into Canaan in year 2322. And we just don't know what year Jesus was crucified.
And, um, not to put too fine a point on it, but which calendar are we using? Are we accounting for Joshua's sun standing still and Hezekiah's sundial going backwards?
I just get so confused with Bible math. Should I just be able to add 2 and 2 together and tell everyone how I feel about the answer?
And sometimes, to paragraph Freud, a fire is just a fire.
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And, um, not to put too fine a point on it, but which calendar are we using? Are we accounting for Joshua's sun standing still and Hezekiah's sundial going backwards?
I just get so confused with Bible math. Should I just be able to add 2 and 2 together and tell everyone how I feel about the answer?
And sometimes, to paragraph Freud, a fire is just a fire.
For the Biblical timeline; no calendar is used. Just the addition of the time periods given. Plus the known fact of when Babylon conquered Judah.
It was exactly 2000 years from Adam until Abram, when he was 52; obeyed God and departed from Ur.
Then 1386.5 years until Judah was conquered in 586 BC. Another 613.5 years later; Jesus was acknowledged as King and subsequently Crucified. In 29/30 AD
Now we are very close to the next 2000 year mark. 6000 years since Adam and only the final 1000 years of the rule of King Jesus over all the world, then Eternity,
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It was exactly 2000 years from Adam until Abram
(Narrator: It wasn't. OP is playing loose with their math, using contradicting versions of the Bible, and in some cases completely making up information to achieve a desired theological outcome.)
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It was exactly 2000 years from Adam until Abram, when he was 52; obeyed God and departed from Ur.
Abram was seventy-five years old when he set out from Harran Gen 12:4
Terah, his father, departed Ur some years earlier. But that was his journey, not Abram's. This playing with the dates is most unattractive.
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It was exactly 2000 years from Adam until Abram, when he was 52; obeyed God and departed from Ur.
Abram was seventy-five years old when he set out from Harran Gen 12:4
Terah, his father, departed Ur some years earlier. But that was his journey, not Abram's. This playing with the dates is most unattractive.
I do not play with dates.
I simply add the time periods as given in the Bible.
Abram and Terah departed from Ur when Abram was 52. They lived in Haran for 23 years, then, after Terah died, Abram, then aged 75; went into Canaan.
The first two numbers are obtained by logical deduction, as the year that Abram obeyed God and left Ur, was exactly 2000 years since Adam was created.
These facts may be 'unattractive' to you, but they show how God is in control and His Plan for mankind will prevail.
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I do not play with dates.
LOL
The first two numbers are obtained by logical deduction, as the year that Abram obeyed God and left Ur, was exactly 2000 years since Adam was created.
Abram's journey didn't begin until he was 75.
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Abram's journey didn't begin until he was 75.
[/quote]
You are wrong. What else are you wrong about?
Abram did not leave Ur at age 75, he was that age when he entered the Promised Land.
He, his father and his wife left Ur when Abram was 52, they stayed in Haran for 23 years; when Terah died.
The addition of the time periods as given for the Patriarchs up until Abram obeyed God and departed from Ur, is exactly 2000 years.
Then exactly another 2000 years later Jesus was acclaimed as King, Matthew 21:5-9
We are now 1991 years since that Day.
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Abram did not leave Ur at age 75, he was that age when he entered the Promised Land.
He, his father and his wife left Ur when Abram was 52, they stayed in Haran for 23 years; when Terah died.
What was Abram's age when God asked him to depart for an unknown land?
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What was Abram's age when God asked him to depart for an unknown land?
I already told you that. Maybe God gave him some time to sell his house, etc, but that is irrelevant; he departed from Ur at age 52. He certainly lived in Haran for many years, until his father died, THEN when Abram was 75 he finally entered the Promised Land.
Remember too; that travel such distances often took years, esp with all Abrams baggage!
The whole point of this exercise, is to prove God's amazing timing of the pivotal events of His dealings with mankind.
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What was Abram's age when God asked him to depart for an unknown land?
I already told you that. Maybe God gave him some time to sell his house, etc, but that is irrelevant; he departed from Ur at age 52.
He departed Ur with his father at age 52. But that was his father's journey, not his own. What was the age when God called upon him? It's not 52.
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What was Abram's age when God asked him to depart for an unknown land?
I already told you that. Maybe God gave him some time to sell his house, etc, but that is irrelevant; he departed from Ur at age 52.
He departed Ur with his father at age 52. But that was his father's journey, not his own. What was the age when God called upon him? It's not 52.
Terah was not the person that God called.
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he departed from Ur at age 52.
So what?
Abram wasn't called by God until after he moved to Haran.
Genesis 11-12 Terah took his son Abram and his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, his son Abram’s wife, and they went out together from Ur of the Chaldeans to go into the land of Canaan; but when they came to Haran, they settled there. The days of Terah were two hundred and five years; and Terah died in Haran. Now the Lord said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.
His age when he left Ur is completely irrelevant. That's why Genesis never says anything about it. It only talks about his age when he moved to Haran. You're purposely changing the details of the story to arrive at your desired outcome, but even then the math doesn't work out because you're picking-and-choosing the numbers you use on a whim.
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Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3970.5 BC subtracted back from 586 BCE, from:
Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 7:6 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BC
Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70,
Abram was +52 when they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4 Total years since Adam = 2000
Then there was another 2000 years until Jesus was acclaimed as King.
Now there has been 5991 years since Adam.
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You do know that the geneologies in Genesis (and Luke, and Matthew) are not sequential, that is, it is not a chronological father to son relationship, right?
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You do know that the geneologies in Genesis (and Luke, and Matthew) are not sequential, that is, it is not a chronological father to son relationship, right?
The genealogy of Jesus has no relevance to the timeline as I have presented.
They are numbers as given to us in the Bible. Those numbers are not meaningless.
There was 3386.5 years from Adam to the conquest of Judah by Babylon, in 596 BC.
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The genealogy of Jesus has no relevance to the timeline as I have presented.
Absolutely relevant, since it includes an extra generation between Adam and Abraham, which throws off your timeline by at least 100 years. The only reason you exclude this extra generation is because it throws off your timeline. Purposely misrepresenting what the Bible says when what it says proves your view is wrong is both completely dishonest and circular.
But it's not like a good Christian prophet completely lied about something else the Bible said in another thread and refuses to acknowledge they did so. That definitely wouldn't set a precedent that they're less than honest with how they use the Bible.
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The genealogy of Jesus has no relevance to the timeline as I have presented.
Absolutely relevant, since it includes an extra generation between Adam and Abraham, which throws off your timeline by at least 100 years. The only reason you exclude this extra generation is because it throws off your timeline. Purposely misrepresenting what the Bible says when what it says proves your view is wrong is both completely dishonest and circular.
But it's not like a good Christian prophet completely lied about something else the Bible said in another thread and refuses to acknowledge they did so. That definitely wouldn't set a precedent that they're less than honest with how they use the Bible.
No time periods are given in the genealogies of Jesus.
The only times are as I have shown and they do add to a very significant point for us today.
To dismiss the prospect of dramatic coming events, is yours and everyone's prerogative.
But your nonsense and rude accusation against me for calling a Jewish priest a Rabbi, shows an entrenched denial of these Biblical Truths, to your discredit.
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Peter tells us to all to be ready to give an apologia -- a reasoned explanation -- for the hope that is within us, that is, the hope of our resurrection and eternal life through faith in Jesus. We are to do that with gentleness and meekness.
A part of that is the "reasoned" part. Reasoning implies an open, honest, objective (not-subjective) analysis of truth... not just our dogma, but the truth. If, in the examination of our truth statements, we observe or learn of facts that seem to contradict our truth statements, those issues must be examined.
A cursory examination of the genealogies in Genesis 5, 11, and the Jesus genealogies in the Gospels demonstrate that there are often gaps -- sometimes, a "begat" is not to a son but a grandson, etc. The simple truth is that no one knows when the earth was created, no one knows how long Adam and Eve were alive in the Garden before they sinned, no one believes that the "direct line patriarchy" in Genesis 5 and 11 means that the first child of the first child of the first child was ALWAYS a male, etc.
More importantly, the point of the genealogies is not to create a chronology, but instead, to demonstrate the eventual lineage of Jesus, as seen in the Gospels.
In reality, this line of reasoning has more in line with the Book of Jasher than scripture.
It also assumes an timeline that is equal to only 6000 years, which is the purest of speculation. While we can appreciate the effort, building a great ladder but propping it against the wrong wall is, in the end, futile.
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But your nonsense and rude accusation against me for calling a Jewish priest a Rabbi
Are you seriously trying to say this conversation (https://bibleforums.us/index.php?topic=112) never happened?
Joel 1:13-18 Put on sackcloth, you Rabbis and those who administer before the altar
Bad translation. The Hebrew word is "priest", not "Rabbi".
I like how he just completely ignores that the errant translation is in error.
An errant error is the truth!
What a X accusation, anyway. You obviously haven't bothered to look up the provenance of the Revised English Bible, Oxford edition 1987.
It is a complete re-translation of all the Bible, incl the Apocrypha, from a huge selection of ancient manuscripts, like the Dead sea scrolls.
The REBible puts the text into modern English and explains the Hebrew nuances.
Learn to read Hebrew. The word is "כֹּֽהֲנִ֗ים" which means "priests". The term "Rabbi" didn't even exist in the first temple era.
The REB wasn't published until 1989, and REB Joel 1:13 says "Put on sackcloth, you priests".
In fact, when I do a Google search for the translation you provided, "Put on sackcloth, you Rabbis", literally just one single result (https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Put+on+sackcloth%2C+you+Rabbis%22&oq=%22Put+on+sackcloth%2C+you+Rabbis%22) comes up: you, on another message board. It appears to be the REB, but you purposely changed the word "priests" to "Rabbis".
As I believe that the prophesies of Joel are for us, now close to the end of this Church age, then the use of 'Rabbi' for a Jewish priest, is quite correct and valid. The REB does, in fact say: priest.
You quoted a verse in Joel that used the word "Rabbi" instead of the word "priest." You doubled-down by calling people "s--pid" (now censored by an "X") for daring to point out this mistranslation. You insisted I was "obviously" ignorant about the "provenance" of the REB translation that used the word "Rabbi", which you claimed was published in 1987. When it was shown that the REB didn't exist until 1989 and that it used the word "priest" and not "Rabbi," you simply refused to acknowledge that you completely lied about all that, and pivoted to claiming that it was "correct and valid" to change what word the Bible used because your theology says you can change the wording of the Bible to reflect your theology.
This is a pattern of willful dishonesty.
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Terah was not the person that God called.
What age was Abraham when he was called?
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Terah was not the person that God called.
What age was Abraham when he was called?
The only time the Bible gives Abram's age is in Genesis 12:4. He was 75 when he departed from Harran.
And he was 99 when God made the Covenant with him.
But we see in Genesis 12:1, that God told Abram to leave his own country, his kin, your fathers house and go to a land I will show you.
This call must have been while he was in Ur, which he obeyed as soon as he could, excepting he took his father with him. So until Terah died, Abram and his family didn't go on to Canaan. That took some years.
I contend it was 23 years and I prove it by Abram being 52 when he received the Call, that time making the exact 2000 year period since Adam.
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The only time the Bible gives Abram's age is in Genesis 12:4. He was 75 when he departed from Harran.
Thank you.
This call must have been while he was in Ur, which he obeyed as soon as he could, excepting he took his father with him.
Genesis 11: Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram, and together they set out from Ur of the Chaldeans to go to Canaan. But when they came to Harran, they settled there. Terah lived 205 years, and he died in Harran.
It was Terah's journey, not Abram's. Terah took Abram with him, not the other way around. Plain text, my friend.
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Fenris, we have a puzzle here.
Terah was 70 when Abram was born. Abram was a grown; married man when the left Ur with his father and family. But Abram was childless, as Sarah was barren. In all probability, Abram and Sarah were not so young when they left Ur.
They settled in Harran for at least several years. Abram then left Harran and went Canaan when he was 75.
But Terah lived until he was 205. So he must have still been alive in Harran after Abram had gone.
I stand by the addition of the time periods that give us exactly 2000 years from Adam to when Abram left Ur at age 52. God called Abram, not Terah.
Abram and Sarah lived in Harran for 23 years.
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Fenris, we have a puzzle here.
There's no puzzle. You find what you want in scripture, and if it isn't to your liking you mistranslate and mess with dates. This isn't clever or prophetic, it's heretical.
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God called Abram, not Terah.
God called Abram after he had already moved to Haran.
You keep ignoring this detail -- or, more accurately, you keep rewriting what the Bible says about this detail -- because your timeline doesn't work when it's accounted for. Your timeline is built on a fundamentally dishonest reading of the Bible.
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OK, so call me dumber than a box of rocks, but what is the significance of weather Abram got the calling before or after he left Ur??? I know what when and where, but what is the argument really?
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The summary of keraz's "prophetic timeline" is that the history of the world will be perfectly divided into three 2000 year segments. The first segment concludes when Abram left Ur (Genesis 11) in response to God calling him, based on how Keraz is doing the math from genealogical information provided in Genesis 5 and 11.
Besides just playing loose with the math, the summary of the criticism of keraz's timeline is he's flatly contradicting the order of events in Genesis 11 and 12.
Genesis says
- Abram moved to Ur and lived there for X years
- Abram moved to Haran and lived there for Y years
- After living in Haran, God called Abram to travel to Canaan
- Abram moved to Canaan when he was 75 years old because of God's calling
keraz claims
- God called Abram to travel to Canaan
- Abram moved to Ur when he was ?? years old because of God's calling
keraz is taking Genesis 12:1-3 and pretending it happens before Genesis 11:31 -- and he's completely making up the detail of how old Abram was at the time, since Genesis never tells us -- solely to force the Bible's story to fit his "timeline" theory.
He came up with a theory about the Bible, the Bible doesn't fit his theory, so he's changing what the Bible says to make it fit his theory.
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I re-posted the Bible based time periods in #83.
It proves the 2000 years from Adam until Abram left Ur. God called him to leave his country; before he went to Harran.
Then there was another exact 2000 years from when Abram left Ur until Jesus was acclaimed King and subsequently Crucified.
Now we are 1991 years since 30 AD. I am not surprised people don't like it!
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This form of dispensationalism has mesmerized very great men such as John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, Jonathan Edwards, and I believe especially even more, Clarance Larkin. They called it historicism, but what it actually was, was date setting. I think that's where they find the issue keraz. No man knoweth the day or the hour except the Father. It can't be pinned down sir.
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I couldn't care less about the date setting, honestly.
My issue is with the dishonest behind him rewriting what the Bible actually says, and making up details, just to make his theory work in the first place. Also that he makes up reasons ("lies") for why people are objecting to his theory.
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I couldn't care less about the date setting, honestly.
My issue is with the dishonest behind him rewriting what the Bible actually says, and making up details, just to make his theory work in the first place. Also that he makes up reasons ("lies") for why people are objecting to his theory.
Well then, what needs to be done keraz, when you make an assertion, you, like anyone else needs to post scripture and verse on that assertation. Then your expository.
Then, when you use verses to back up whatever verse you are making an assertion on, expound on them. Don't use any extra-biblical content when commenting on the verses.
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No man knoweth the day or the hour except the Father. It can't be pinned down sir.
And I think it shows a profound lack of trust in God. He didn't tell us the date because we don't need to know. Just lead a Godly life here on earth and leave the rest up to Him.
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This form of dispensationalism has mesmerized very great men such as John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, Jonathan Edwards, and I believe especially even more, Clarance Larkin. They called it historicism, but what it actually was, was date setting. I think that's where they find the issue keraz. No man knoweth the day or the hour except the Father. It can't be pinned down sir.
Thanks for your input, Tim.
I agree that we cannot know the Day or the hour of Jesus' Return. We may know the year.
More importantly, for us alive today: we cannot know when He will send His terrible Day of fiery wrath upon the earth.
But God has given us the information for us to be able to see His over-arching Plan for His Creation of mankind and our environment. He is a God to whom numbers are significant, 7 and 40 are examples.
In Genesis 1, we have the formula for this Plan; a series of six time periods, culminating is a final, perfect seventh period. We are told, in Revelation 20 that the final period will be one thousand years.
Now, as we are nearly 2000 years since Jesus, we have the hindsight and the ability to work out that there was exactly 4000 years from Adam to Jesus. This may be scary and even unacceptable to some, but it is factual.
Do the math yourself: Add - 130, 105, 90, 70, 65, 162, 65, 187, 182, 600, 35, 30, 34, 30, 32, 30, 29, 70.
They are the numbers given in the Bible of the years from Adam until to the birth of Abram. All scripture refs are in my post #83.
They add to 1948 years. We know that Abram was a grown, married man when God called him to leave his country.
It is not an assumption, but a valid fact to say that Abram was 52 when He obeyed God and departed from Ur of the Chaldees. It makes the perfect number of 2000 years; Adam to the time God commenced working with mankind for His purposes.
The fact of the 2000 years Adam to Abraham, is proved by the next exact 2000 years; Abraham to Jesus, His acclamation as King and subsequent Death, in 30 AD.
Attempts to destroy my credibility and to vilify me, are made by those who have another agenda, they have no Biblical support or proper refutation.
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Isaiah 61:1-2a The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me. He has sent me to announce good news to the humble, to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and to proclaim a year of the Lords favor,
Isaiah 61:2b-3...and a Day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn, to give then garlands instead of ashes, oil of gladness, instead of mourners tears and a garment of splendor for the distressed. They will be called trees of righteousness, planted by the Lord for His adornment.
Isaiah 61:4-11 Buildings long in ruin and desolate will be restored and rebuilt. Foreigners will serve you, caring for your flocks and vines, but you will be called priests of the Lord and the wealth of the nations will be yours. Because My people have received insults and shame in double measure, they will receive in their own Land, wealth in double measure.
For I, the Lord love justice and hate injustice, I shall give My people a sure reward and make an everlasting Covenant with them. Their posterity will be renowned among the nations, they will be seen as a people blessed by the Lord.
Let us rejoice in the Lord with all our hearts. From Him has come victory and deliverance. His people, robed in beauty are like a garden full of flowers. The Lord will make His victory and renown known to the nations. Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.
Isaiah 61:1-2a, was quoted by Jesus at the commencement of His ministry;.... a year of the Lord’s favor’. He stopped in mid sentence and then said: Today, in your hearing, this prophecy has come true.
Therefore, the rest of this chapter is unfulfilled prophecy. So, we look for the sequence of events to unfold as written, commencing with:
‘a Day of vengeance of our God’ - The next prophesied event. Not the Return of Jesus in His glory, but His punishment to the nations, triggered by an attack on Israel. This is prophesied and described comprehensively throughout the Bible as a terrible disaster by fire, that will affect the whole world. Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 30:26
‘comfort all who mourn’ - All who love the Lord and follow in His Laws, those who mourn His death on the cross. Zechariah 12:9-10
‘trees of righteousness, planted in their own Land’ - His people: all faithful Christians, Jews and Gentiles are gathered and settled in His holy Land, into all of that area promised to the Patriarchs, to their descendants by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, in the new country of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 20:34-36, Isaiah 26:15
‘buildings rebuilt and the land restored’ - After the devastation caused by a CME sunstrike, The Lord will regenerate the Land, Ezekiel 36:8 but buildings must be rebuilt, including the new Temple. Isaiah 65:21, Zechariah 6:15
‘foreigners will serve you’ - Isaiah 60:10...foreigners will rebuild your walls...
‘wealth of the nations will be yours’ - Zechariah 14:14 The same as what happened at the first Exodus. Exodus 11:2
‘make a Covenant with them’ - Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 34:25, Hebrews 8:10-12
‘from Him has come victory and deliverance’ - Psalms 91:14-16, Psalms 44:4-7
‘known to the nations’ - Ezekiel 39:21, Isaiah 40:5
if you believe the day of vengece is next then you would more likey to think the next man who claims to god is god himself but we know the next man is the antichrist.
the next event needs to be matt 24, 6,7 as the world needs to become a wlderness first.
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if you believe the day of vengece is next then you would more likey to think the next man who claims to god is god himself but we know the next man is the antichrist.
the next event needs to be matt 24, 6,7 as the world needs to become a wlderness first.
Hi Ross. I sort of take a position between you and Keraz. I tend to focus more on Christ than on the Judgment immediately preceding or actually attending that event.
On the other hand, I see Matt 24 more as a prophecy of the events attending the generation of Christ's 1st Coming, including the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. However, I do believe the Antichrist is coming, as well.