The Jews will be kept safe in the Great Tribulation

[Fenris]

I am not fighting, just wanna know what happened in the AD 70 period. There is certainly room for unfulfilled prophecy such as Zachariah 14 -

Or Zachariah 12!

A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.

The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares:  “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem.  On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.  On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations.  Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’

 “On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.

 “The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them. On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.

This one seems strangely pertinent today.

[Slug1]

So in your opinion how should we interpret -

Matt 16 -
27  For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.
28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Let root through my studies :-)

V28 - We have to begin with the Greek concerning the English term, "some." In English we understand this to be plural in nature, meaning more than one. But, in the Greek, the meaning is not as it is in English.

Strong's Concordance
tis: a certain one, someone, anyone
Original Word: τις, τι
Part of Speech: Indefinite Pronoun
Transliteration: tis
Phonetic Spelling: (tis)
Definition: a certain one, someone, anyone
Usage: any one, some one, a certain one or thing.

Meaning, Jesus is informing a "single" person that "they" will be alive and see Jesus coming in His Kingdom.

I'll leave it here for your thoughts because when this got pointed out to me, it was as if the light bulb I thought burned bright in my head, went POP!

[ProDeo]

Thanks for the discussion.

--ProDeo-out 

[Slug1]

Thanks for the discussion.

--ProDeo-out 

Just so I'm sure you understood my discussion point. Jesus is speaking to a group but by studying the original language, the meaning and intent of this specific verse you have raised, means Jesus is referring to one specific person in the group He's speaking to, "will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom"

All these years on both boards, I try to only "view" doctrinal positions while attempting to discuss what the Scriptures are actually and truly, saying.

[davy]

I interpret Christ's Olivet discourse as covering only a 'dual prophetic' fulfillment of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Romans in 70 A.D. The rest of Christ's Olivet discourse covers Signs specifically for the end of this world, leading up to Christ's future return.

I was raised in a Preterist mainstream Protestant Church, but I didn't know then what man's doctrine of Preterism was. They believed most of Revelation was fulfilled, and only Christ's future return was still lacking. That's called Partial-Preterism. Full-Preterism is the belief that Jesus' 2nd coming already happened back in the days of His Apostles, and that it was meant in the spiritual sense only, and not as a literal bodily return. Both in my opinion are failed doctrines of men, disproven by historical fact, and by overwhelming Scripture evidences that point directly to the latter days of this world, long after 70 A.D.

In the Matt.24:32-35 Scripture about the "generation" Jesus mentioned, He is pointing to the final generation that will 'see' all those Signs of the end that He gave.

Matt 24:32-35
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
KJV

The condition Jesus set in the above is that "generation" will "see all these things", meaning those Signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. The very last Sign Jesus gave in the Matt.24:29-31 verses is about the day of His future coming to gather His saints, and He showed that will happen AFTER... that tribulation, meaning the "great tribulation" of verse 21. So there is yet another Biblical proof that His Olivet discourse Signs are for the very end of this world, in the final generation on earth, simply because His coming to gather His saints has not happened yet today.

Some will say, but that not one stone atop another Sign Jesus gave happened already, in 70 A.D., when the Roman army destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple!

I see that as a 'dual prophecy' only partially fulfilled in 70 A.D. Just as Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C. took Jerusalem and sacrificed swine inside the 2nd temple at Jerusalem, and then setup an IDOL abomination in Zeus worship 'partially' fulfilled the Daniel 11:31 prophecy about the coming Antichrist, likewise the not one stone atop another prophecy for 70 A.D. served as a 'partial' fulfillment.

Per the great earthquake of Rev.11 on the 7th Trumpet, and per the Zechariah 14 Scripture about the day of Christ's future return to the Mount of Olives, with a great valley being formed, that in my opinion will complete that 'not one stone atop another' Matt.24:2 prophecy.

The only further historical events aligned with Christ's Olivet discourse other than the 70 A.D. fulfillment of the destruction of Jerusalem and the 2nd temple, are the "many" that come claiming to be Christ. There were false Christs going back in history even in that time, just as there are still many today in my era that have claimed to be Jesus Christ. So really that idea is on-going fulfillment that will culminate in the coming of the actual Antichrist at the very end of this world.


 

[shepherdsword]

This is pretty much how I see it:
(no offense to Fenris)

1)Israel will go through a series of successful judgements that will eradicate all non believing jews and restore faith in the Messiah to the elect jews(remnant) .(Joel 2:32)

2)Two thirds of Israel will be destroyed by judgement.(Zech 13:8 )

3)Half of Jerusalem will be destroyed.(Zech 14:2)

4)The remaining one third elect will cry "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" and repent to have faith in Jesus Christ(Matt 23:39)

5)And so all Israel shall be saved (Rom11:26)

6) Jew and Gentile will be united into an everlasting Messianic Kingdom(Eph 2:15-22)

The remnant will be kept safe(preserved) but Israel will go through her last time of judgement just as wrath is poured on the gentile nations

[Fenris]

This is pretty much how I see it:
(no offense to Fenris)

None taken. All will be revealed in time.

[Billy Evmur]

This is pretty much how I see it:
(no offense to Fenris)

1)Israel will go through a series of successful judgements that will eradicate all non believing jews and restore faith in the Messiah to the elect jews(remnant) .(Joel 2:32)

2)Two thirds of Israel will be destroyed by judgement.(Zech 13:8 )

3)Half of Jerusalem will be destroyed.(Zech 14:2)

4)The remaining one third elect will cry "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" and repent to have faith in Jesus Christ(Matt 23:39)

5)And so all Israel shall be saved (Rom11:26)

6) Jew and Gentile will be united into an everlasting Messianic Kingdom(Eph 2:15-22)

The remnant will be kept safe(preserved) but Israel will go through her last time of judgement just as wrath is poured on the gentile nations

Hello Shepherd's sword. I believe we have just made friends on Mastedon social.

Folks read Old Testament prophets as though all the prophecies relate to the end-times. Joel 2. does indeed speak of God's judgement upon the nations and Israel will not go unpunished. Then verse 28 says "and it shall come to pass afterwards" that is to say after the judgements God had ben speaking about.
Joel 28-29
And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour My Spirit upon all flesh and your sons and daughters shall prophesy and your old men shall dream dreams and your young men shall see visions.

Even upon your menservants and maidservants in those days will I pour out My Spirit.

But Peter tells us that this prophecy came to pass when the day of Pentecost had fully come, "this ... he says ... is that which Joel the prophet prophesied.

From what I saw of your web page I think you will understand that only part of Joel's prophecy came to pass on the day of pentecost, the pillars of smoke and portents belong to another event, the famous "Day of the Lord"

But you see from then on nothing but good and blessing is prophesied for Israel. God will restore the fortunes of Judah and bring the nations  down to the valley of Jehoshaphat for judgement.

God cannot be gathering Israel and scattering them at the same time can He? He can't be fighting for them and fighting against them at the same time. He is blessing or cursing but not at the same time.

Zechariah 13 7-8
Awake o sword against My Shepherd, against the Man who stands next to Me saith the Lord of hosts. Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered ..."

But Jesus said this prophecy was fulfilled when they came to arrest Him, it refers to His crucifixion.

Zechariah 14 speaks specifically about a day of the Lord when He will bring the nations up against Israel and to be sure there is much trouble in Jerusalem. But then in verse 4 "Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations as when He fights in the day of battle."

God bless you.