US Russian Hoax

[Kingfisher]

Our nation is divided. We focus some much time and energy on our differences that there's little left to find common ground, or at least workable solutions.

But, like the saying goes, the left wing and right wing belong to the same bird.

I vote hoping for the best but with the knowledge that I can't turn to Washington for answers since it's filled with sinners like me.

Just praying that God would stir the hearts of His church to effectively change the hearts of this nations people.

[RandyPNW]

Our nation is divided. We focus some much time and energy on our differences that there's little left to find common ground, or at least workable solutions.

But, like the saying goes, the left wing and right wing belong to the same bird.

I vote hoping for the best but with the knowledge that I can't turn to Washington for answers since it's filled with sinners like me.

Just praying that God would stir the hearts of His church to effectively change the hearts of this nations people.

I think there are still moderates in the Democrat Party, and yes I would consider them American friends and "brothers." However, the Democrat Party has become, in recent times, something different, and I'm not quite sure I can welcome them into the "American Family."

Perhaps I need to do that? I'm letting things play out for now.

[Abigail]

I apologize if this isn't particularly relevant to biblical discussions. It is, however, relevant to my own participation in them. I've been completely immersed in the current unraveling of the Russian Hoax scandal in the US. Before and during the Trump presidency there was an active conspiracy, by the Democrat Party, and Hillary Clinton in particular, to skew the voters' attitude towards Trump as a traitor to US concerns, as a seedy "friend" of Putin and Russia.

This is now coming to light under a special prosecutor appointed just before Trump left office. Durham has uncovered a plot to spy on Trump--something Trump had identified earlier but was laughed at in the media. Trump was right--he was in fact spied on in a conspiracy to taint him and destroy his ability to be reelected. Our media has been busy castigating anybody who forwards this "conspiracy theory" as propagandistic and misinformation. In case you're interested, here are a few of my favorite people who appear on Fox TV, and another who someone on a forum gave me.


rumble.com/vux8jn-ep.-1705-spygate-erupts-the-dan-bongino-show.html?mref=16emn&mc=6kk5f&fbclid=IwAR0JwgrZTiGgY0yoQBT3k5M2g8ZFlShyrmn2JAvB-D28ayK_Pr0UhBQtwdY

www.facebook.com/JaySekulow/videos/1384622091989357

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=search&v=486042876411438&external_log_id=56883682-da75-4fc9-87f4-f4bac9725a51&q=steve%20hilton

www.facebook.com/bennyjohnson/videos/659895278545320

Trump was one of the, if not the, best presidents in our history in my opinion.

With all the slander that assailed Donald Trump even during the campaign, it was really no surprise when the Left doubled down once he was in office.

And to think before when he was a Democrat the Dem's of Congress who clearly hated his guts when he was president loved him when he was rich and giving their campaigns money.  They considered him a traitor to the party when he became a Republican just to run against Hillary.

And we're to have forgotten that when she was Obama's SoS she was thick as thieves with Putin. https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crimea-crisis-hillary-clinton-compares-russian-president-vladimir-putin-adolf-hitler-1438968
And don't forget that famous hot-mic capture that hit the media during BO's presidency. When he was whispering to Russia's Medvedev, saying he will have "more flexibility" after election. @ YouTube look for the video title:Obama tells Medvedev he will have "more flexibility" after election

That was telling in retrospect IMO. Obama was certain then he'd be re-elected for a second term. Now, in my view, I believe the one thing that came out of the 2020 steal was our coming to realize, we really don't vote the candidates in.

At least with what is happening now that Biden was put into office by the conspirators we know that it was always a lie that President Trump was Putin's man during Trump's term in office. Because if Trump was Putin's puppet as the Left alleged, wouldn't that have been the time to invade Ukraine?

I'd think so. Your puppet wouldn't do a thing to stop it. And by the by, what will sanctions do in this case? Nothing! Putin is a billionaire. He doesn't care about U.S. sanctions. Those are just saber rattling words to make people think Biden is a threat to Russia.
Biden couldn't spell Russia without someone whispering its spelling in his ear mic during a presser.

God help us.

As if Nancy Pelosi isn't evidence of that all these decades she's been in office.

[Fenris]

However, the Democrat Party has become, in recent times, something different, and I'm not quite sure I can welcome them into the "American Family."

And there we have it. People whose politics is different from yours are not "Americans".

Maybe we should set up a panel to question these people. We could call it... I dunno, an "inquisition"?

And we can vet people for having the proper beliefs. Proper politics, sorry.

And we can expel those whose beliefs are heretical. UnAmerican, I mean. UnAmerican.

Because burning them at the stake seems too harsh. For now.   

[Fenris]

Trump was one of the, if not the, best presidents in our history in my opinion.

Oof. The man can't keep his foot out of his own mouth. I mean, he governed as a fairly mainstream Republican but he created so many distractions with his outlandish behavior that his presidency became about him and not the country.

With all the slander that assailed Donald Trump even during the campaign, it was really no surprise when the Left doubled down once he was in office.

snip

And we're to have forgotten that when she was Obama's SoS she was thick as thieves with Putin. https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crimea-crisis-hillary-clinton-compares-russian-president-vladimir-putin-adolf-hitler-1438968
And don't forget that famous hot-mic capture that hit the media during BO's presidency. When he was whispering to Russia's Medvedev, saying he will have "more flexibility" after election. @ YouTube look for the video title:Obama tells Medvedev he will have "more flexibility" after election

And yet you're doubling down now that Obama is out of office.

Biden couldn't spell Russia without someone whispering its spelling in his ear mic during a presser.

Yeah, Trump would probably be better than Biden now. Probably. But who knows. Now he's giving interviews about what a "genius" Putin is. Because he always has to be the center of attention, which was the big failure of his presidency. And I say this as a lifelong Republican.

God help us.

Thankfully, He does.

[Athanasius]

I believe you know me enough when I say that to not do action against evil, is evil.

So, about this Ukraine situation... is Russia doing evil, and is NATO evil for not taking strong enough action against Russia?

[RandyPNW]

However, the Democrat Party has become, in recent times, something different, and I'm not quite sure I can welcome them into the "American Family."

And there we have it. People whose politics is different from yours are not "Americans".

Maybe we should set up a panel to question these people. We could call it... I dunno, an "inquisition"?

And we can vet people for having the proper beliefs. Proper politics, sorry.

And we can expel those whose beliefs are heretical. UnAmerican, I mean. UnAmerican.

Because burning them at the stake seems too harsh. For now.

Yea, Fenris, unlike some I do have standards for American citizenship. I as an individual American do have my own convictions. And my conviction is that America should be more stringent in what it will allow in the name of "free speech."

I had this argument with Rob Strom, another Jew, for years. I argued that civil liberties should not be without black and white standards--otherwise the whole thing will blow up on itself.

Everybody knows you can't shout "fire" in a crowded theater without causing a panic--therefore, there is no "right" to do so unless there is an honest to goodness "fire!"

If we allow the kind of hostility going on in our country right now politically, we won't survive as a nation, or as America. We will become a one-party state, wthout real civil liberties.

We will only have as much freedom as social media will allow us to have. And our best intentions will be misrepresented on the other media.

No I think that ought to be put out to pasture. But no, I won't crucify you for having another opinion. That's not propaganda, and that's not manipulation and deception. But it is in fact true-blue American.

[Athanasius]

Free speech doesn't exist for the sake of comfortable conversation.

[RandyPNW]

I believe you know me enough when I say that to not do action against evil, is evil.

So, about this Ukraine situation... is Russia doing evil, and is NATO evil for not taking strong enough action against Russia?

The biblical position is to correct a problem if it is *within your sphere of responsibility* to deal with it, to avert a problem. For example...

Deut 22.4 If you see your fellow Israelite’s donkey or ox fallen on the road, do not ignore it. Help the owner get it to its feet.

We are forbidden from making alliances with evil nations or evil governments. But in the matter of a nation in distress, I think something should be done about it, if circumstances make us the available help. My hope is that NATO and the world does something about it.

As in all matters, we should pray and be sure that whatever we do is indeed God's will. But someone crying out for help sure seems like God speaking to us? May the Lord help us know what to do!

[RandyPNW]

Free speech doesn't exist for the sake of comfortable conversation.

Are you comfortable with my speech? Of course not. That's American.

I'm just saying that when the identity of "America" begins to change, due to the "free speech" of the progressives, please note that their "free speech" is not really the kind we normally call "American."

Don't get me wrong. I want them to be able to voice their opinions, and enter into conversations about systems that they think will work best for us all.

But Communism did this, and look what it led to. Representing ideas to the people led to an enslavement of the people to a single ideology, which is the opposite of our American sense of "free speech."

Lately, the Progressives control a propaganda machine that seeks to turn our 2 party democracy into a 1 party system requiring society to conform to a single ideology. That isn't "free speech" to me!

It's of course possible that I'm exaggerating things a bit. But I'm genuinely concerned--that's all.

[Athanasius]

Free speech doesn't exist for the sake of comfortable conversation.

Are you comfortable with my speech? Of course not. That's American.

I'm just saying that when the identity of "America" begins to change, due to the "free speech" of the progressives, please note that their "free speech" is not really the kind we normally call "American."

Don't get me wrong. I want them to be able to voice their opinions, and enter into conversations about systems that they think will work best for us all.

But Communism did this, and look what it led to. Representing ideas to the people led to an enslavement of the people to a single ideology, which is the opposite of our American sense of "free speech."

Lately, the Progressives control a propaganda machine that seeks to turn our 2 party democracy into a 1 party system requiring society to conform to a single ideology. That isn't "free speech" to me!

It's of course possible that I'm exaggerating things a bit. But I'm genuinely concerned--that's all.

I'm saying that you aren't a proponent of free speech in the same way that those you're detracting aren't proponents of free speech. According to others, your 'free speech' is violent, offensive and all kinds of *phobic and whatever-normative, etc. etc. Accoprding to you, their kind of free speech isn't 'American' enough, and too Communist, and propagandist. Same coin, two sides.

So yes, place limitations on free speech to protect the identity of America. But that's not really American either, is it? Might be better to discuss and defeat those ideas in the public sphere, or accept that the world today isn't the world of 50 years ago.

I don't find your speech uncomfortable, by the way.

[Athanasius]

I believe you know me enough when I say that to not do action against evil, is evil.

So, about this Ukraine situation... is Russia doing evil, and is NATO evil for not taking strong enough action against Russia?

The biblical position is to correct a problem if it is *within your sphere of responsibility* to deal with it, to avert a problem. For example...

Deut 22.4 If you see your fellow Israelite’s donkey or ox fallen on the road, do not ignore it. Help the owner get it to its feet.

We are forbidden from making alliances with evil nations or evil governments. But in the matter of a nation in distress, I think something should be done about it, if circumstances make us the available help. My hope is that NATO and the world does something about it.

As in all matters, we should pray and be sure that whatever we do is indeed God's will. But someone crying out for help sure seems like God speaking to us? May the Lord help us know what to do!

I see, so there are necessary qualifications.

[RandyPNW]

I believe you know me enough when I say that to not do action against evil, is evil.

So, about this Ukraine situation... is Russia doing evil, and is NATO evil for not taking strong enough action against Russia?

The biblical position is to correct a problem if it is *within your sphere of responsibility* to deal with it, to avert a problem. For example...

Deut 22.4 If you see your fellow Israelite’s donkey or ox fallen on the road, do not ignore it. Help the owner get it to its feet.

We are forbidden from making alliances with evil nations or evil governments. But in the matter of a nation in distress, I think something should be done about it, if circumstances make us the available help. My hope is that NATO and the world does something about it.

As in all matters, we should pray and be sure that whatever we do is indeed God's will. But someone crying out for help sure seems like God speaking to us? May the Lord help us know what to do!

I see, so there are necessary qualifications.

You were asking someone else. This was my qualification, that we are available to help, and someone needs help. Then we have to be sure God is pleased with it. His qualifications has to do with holiness and compassion both. Things are not always so clear.

[Athanasius]

I believe you know me enough when I say that to not do action against evil, is evil.

So, about this Ukraine situation... is Russia doing evil, and is NATO evil for not taking strong enough action against Russia?

The biblical position is to correct a problem if it is *within your sphere of responsibility* to deal with it, to avert a problem. For example...

Deut 22.4 If you see your fellow Israelite’s donkey or ox fallen on the road, do not ignore it. Help the owner get it to its feet.

We are forbidden from making alliances with evil nations or evil governments. But in the matter of a nation in distress, I think something should be done about it, if circumstances make us the available help. My hope is that NATO and the world does something about it.

As in all matters, we should pray and be sure that whatever we do is indeed God's will. But someone crying out for help sure seems like God speaking to us? May the Lord help us know what to do!

I see, so there are necessary qualifications.

You were asking someone else. This was my qualification, that we are available to help, and someone needs help. Then we have to be sure God is pleased with it. His qualifications has to do with holiness and compassion both. Things are not always so clear.

Yes, you would qualify the axiom, and that's fine.

[Slug1]

I believe you know me enough when I say that to not do action against evil, is evil.

So, about this Ukraine situation... is Russia doing evil, and is NATO evil for not taking strong enough action against Russia?

A tough one for sure. Violence is not evil nor good. Violence can be for evil intent as well as for good intent. So, once the "true" purpose of the military operation is clear, intent can be discerned and then, one can say Russia is doing evil or good.