BibleForums Christian Message Board
Bible Talk => Eschatology => Topic started by: Fenris on February 11, 2024, 12:42:40 PM
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I'm not an "end timesy" kind of guy. Still, sometimes things happen in the world that do seem to fit the literal text of some ancient prophecy. The goings on in Israel right now in some way fit the text of Zechariah 12. To wit-
A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.
The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’
“On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.
“The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them.
Some observations.
"On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her"
The UN and most of the nations in the world are standing against Israel right now. This began right after the Hamas pogrom against Israel on 10/7, even before Israel took the war to Gaza. And all those nations are now insisting that Israel stop, right now, even as the war seems near won. Or perhaps because the war seems near won.
Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.
The city of Jerusalem has been the safest place in Israel during this war. The south of the country has been evacuated because of the war with Hamas and the north of the country has been evacuated because of ongoing Hizbullah attacks. Tel Aviv came under frequent missile fire from Gaza. But Jerusalem alone has been almost incident free.
the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them
I can't think of a better description of the IDF.
The IDF has been operating in a dense, fortified urban zone, with Hamas combatants hiding amongst civilians and fighting while not in unform. The IDF is taking great pains to safeguard civilian lives. In spite of this, they have killed at least 10,000 Hamas fighters and permanently incapacitated 10,000 more. 75% of Hamas fighting brigades are out of action. The cost to Israel has been 224 IDF soldiers killed in combat. Don't get me wrong, every single IDF death is a tragedy. But that kill ratio can only be explained by God's protection of those brave soldiers.
I have more understanding of the rest of the chapter, but I'm going to pause here for now.
So is my understanding of current events.
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Two chapters further -
1 Behold, a day is coming for the LORD, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. 5 And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one.
1. It's a not fulfilled prophecy since the Mount of Olives is still whole.
2. all nations if taken literal means USA too.
3. Of course Christians see many parallels with the NT :)
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Two chapters further -
Uhh we're talking about chapter 12.
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When it's about chapter 12 my guess would be the miraculous wars of 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.
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At Zechariah 12:10-14, it is for after... the battle on the "day of the Lord", i.e., Armageddon when the nations of Ezek.38 come up against Jerusalem. And then those Jews of Romans 11 which Apostle Paul said God had blinded, will have that spiritual blindness removed, and they shall see Jesus Christ as He is, and will mourn for Him.
That nation list of Ezekiel 38 does not have any... Christian nation on it. So scratch ideas from Christ's enemies that try to claim the U.S. or any Christian nation will be part of that. Instead, Ezekiel 38 points to the nations of Russia, Persia (Iran, Iraq), Gomer (old Soviet satellite countries), Libya, and Togarmah (old Cappodicia, now the area of Turkey).
The Communist leaders of Russia I believe represent Jacob's unbelieving brother Esau who profaned his birthright from God by trading it for a bowl of beans. The prophecy in Genesis of the blessing given Esau by his father Isaac was that his place would be 'far away' from those things that were given to his brother Jacob (KJV has a scribe error on that Scripture). And thus Russia fits the bill, plus... it is obvious the 'radical' Islamic nations are being supported by Russia, so the "chief" prince of Meshech of Ezek.38 strongly points to modern-day Russia.
Esau married into both the families of the Canaanites, and the family of Ishmael (Arabs). Esau is obviously jealous of Jacob for having lost the Birthright. And Ishmael, Abraham's firstborn son (but not of Sarah per God's Promise), Ishmael too is jealous of Jacob having received God's Birthright.
And many of the leftover Canaanites became bondservants to Israel, and they also may have a play against and 'within' Israel in the last days. Daniel 11 about the "vile person" for the end, which I believe is the final Antichrist at the end, that Chapter says he will come to power with "a small people". I believe that "small people" represents false leaders of Israel at the end of this world which will push that "vile person" to be king-Messiah, and trick the majority of Jews in Jerusalem at the end into believing that Messiah has come.
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At Zechariah 12:10-14, it is for after... the battle on the "day of the Lord", i.e., Armageddon when the nations of Ezek.38 come up against Jerusalem.
This is possible.
That nation list of Ezekiel 38 does not have any... Christian nation on it. So scratch ideas from Christ's enemies that try to claim the U.S. or any Christian nation will be part of that. Instead, Ezekiel 38 points to the nations of Russia, Persia (Iran, Iraq), Gomer (old Soviet satellite countries), Libya, and Togarmah (old Cappodicia, now the area of Turkey).
I don't think there's any definitive definition as to who Gog and Magog are. If you're trying to tie it into Zechariah 12, it doesn't make such a distinction.
The Communist leaders of Russia I believe represent Jacob's unbelieving brother Esau who profaned his birthright from God by trading it for a bowl of beans. The prophecy in Genesis of the blessing given Esau by his father Isaac was that his place would be 'far away' from those things that were given to his brother Jacob (KJV has a scribe error on that Scripture). And thus Russia fits the bill, plus... it is obvious the 'radical' Islamic nations are being supported by Russia, so the "chief" prince of Meshech of Ezek.38 strongly points to modern-day Russia.
Esau married into both the families of the Canaanites, and the family of Ishmael (Arabs). Esau is obviously jealous of Jacob for having lost the Birthright. And Ishmael, Abraham's firstborn son (but not of Sarah per God's Promise), Ishmael too is jealous of Jacob having received God's Birthright.
Esau can't be Russia and the Arab nations.
Point of interest, the Rabbis made Rome, and by extension western civ, a "type" for Esau.
I believe that "small people" represents false leaders of Israel at the end of this world which will push that "vile person" to be king-Messiah, and trick the majority of Jews in Jerusalem at the end into believing that Messiah has come.
I don't know why some Christians treat Jews as if they have no agency, and just believe what leaders tell us. It seems plain to me that people who make such claims don't actually know any Jews, because believe me, we are a very argumentative people who seldom follow leaders until it's plain that they're correct. Poor Moses.
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I don't see how anyone could miss the following Zech.12 connection with the future battle of Armageddon on the last day of this world, which is what the invading armies out of the northern quarters upon Israel of Ezekiel 38 is about.
Zech 12:9
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
KJV
Nor does it make sense with anyone claiming Russia has no connection to the nations list of Ezekiel 38 which points to Islamic nations coming up against Israel that have been supported by Russia.
Esau represented by Russia is more viable an argument than Rome. I see Jewish hatred of Rome a lot on various forums.
As for the Zech.12:10-14 verses, the subject there is about the Jew's mourning for Christ Jesus when He appears. That is pointing to unbelieving Jews, not believers on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ...
Zech 12:10
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
KJV
In Luke 23, Lord Jesus on His way to be crucified, said the following to the Jewish women who wept for Him...
Luke 23:27-30
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us.' "
KJV
That is about the deceived Jews in Jerusalem for the end that have rejected Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ. And when Jesus appears in Jerusalem on the day of His future coming, and they see Him, they will be in shame, and that's why they will say for the mountains to, "Fall on us", and to the hills, to "Cover us." That's a direct link to that Zechariah 12:10-14 Scripture. So I don't have to personally... know, or contact a bunch of Jewish folks to see if that Scripture is correct or not. I know it is correct and means what it says as written.
It is more likely that many Jews, mainly unbelieving Jews, are not aware of Apostle Paul's teaching in Romans 11 about them, that God has placed "the spirit of slumber" upon them blinding them spiritually away from The Gospel, and that blindness won't be removed from the majority of the unbelieving Jews until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
Rom 11:7-11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9 And David saith, 'Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.'
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
KJV
Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, 'There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.'
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV
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I don't see how anyone could miss the following Zech.12 connection with the future battle of Armageddon on the last day of this world, which is what the invading armies out of the northern quarters upon Israel of Ezekiel 38 is about.
And yet Zechariah 12 mentions the world turning against Israel, and Ezekiel 38 talks about Gog and Magog. So perhaps they are separate and distinct events? It is certainly a biblical concept that negative prophecies can be prevented via repentance. See Jonah, for example.
The Talmud (redacted between the 1st and 5th century) tentatively identifies Magog as "Gramamiah". Medieval commentator Rashi (1040-1105) claims that this refers to Germany. So perhaps this event has already occurred?
Nor does it make sense with anyone claiming Russia has no connection to the nations list of Ezekiel 38 which points to Islamic nations coming up against Israel that have been supported by Russia.
The truth is that nobody knows.
Esau represented by Russia is more viable an argument than Rome.
Shrug. I see Jewish hatred of Rome a lot on various forums.
Most Jews don't hate anybody. If you knew any in person you would know that.
As for the Zech.12:10-14 verses, the subject there is about the Jew's mourning for Christ Jesus when He appears. That is pointing to unbelieving Jews, not believers on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ...
The subject is Jews mourning those who have been killed. An event that is currently occuring.
and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him
"They shall look upon me and mourn for him"? This is terrible grammar because it's a bad translation. The Hebrew reads "They shall look to me because of those who have been stabbed, and mourn as one mourns over an only son". Again, this is happening in Israel right now as murdered hostages have been returned. Everyone in the country has mourned over the Bibas kids, Ariel and Kfir, aged 4 years old and 9 months old, as if they were their own children. As a result, Jews who were long secular (although it really means something different in Israel) have suddenly become religious, keeping the Sabbath and eating Kosher and praying daily.
That is about the deceived Jews
As I said, Jews are not "decieved". We're free thinkers who are perfectly capable of judging evidence and making up our own minds.
that have rejected Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ.
It's plain that he did not fill the messianic prophecies as written. If you believe that they will be fulfilled in a second coming, all the power to you. I don't see anything wrong with holding God to His promises, so we're still waiting.
And when Jesus appears in Jerusalem on the day of His future coming, and they see Him, they will be in shame,
Or maybe you'll be ashamed, who knows?
Isaiah 54:
“Do not be afraid; you will not be put to shame.
Do not fear disgrace; you will not be humiliated.
You will forget the shame of your youth
and remember no more the reproach of your widowhood.
For your Maker is your husband—
the Lord Almighty is his name—
the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer;
he is called the God of all the earth.
The Lord will call you back
as if you were a wife deserted and distressed in spirit—
a wife who married young,
only to be rejected,” says your God.
“For a brief moment I abandoned you,
but with deep compassion I will bring you back.
In a surge of anger
I hid my face from you for a moment,
but with everlasting kindness
I will have compassion on you,”
says the Lord your Redeemer."
So I don't have to personally... know, or contact a bunch of Jewish folks to see if that Scripture is correct or not. I know it is correct and means what it says as written.
And I'm reading it in the original Klingon, err, Hebrew, and I'm saying the same thing. It's correct as written.
It is more likely that many Jews, mainly unbelieving Jews, are not aware of Apostle Paul's teaching in Romans 11 about them, that God has placed "the spirit of slumber" upon them blinding them spiritually away from The Gospel, and that blindness won't be removed from the majority of the unbelieving Jews until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
Again if it pleases you to believe this, that's fine. But such beliefs hold no power over me.
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The USA is NOT among the Ezekiel 38 list of nations that are prophesied to come up against Israel on the last day. No Christian nation is part of that Ezekiel 38 list. Who is then?
RUSSIA
IRAN/IRAQ
GEORGIA
SUDAN-YEMEN
TURKEY
Just so happens, all of those above nations except Turkey are ALLIED with Communist Russia today (yes, Russia is still a Communist nation, regardless of what the Leftist Communist news media says.)
And Turkey is a NATO ally today, but still a Muslim nation, thus God's word predicts they will turn.
Two chapters further -
1 Behold, a day is coming for the LORD, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. 5 And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one.
1. It's a not fulfilled prophecy since the Mount of Olives is still whole.
2. all nations if taken literal means USA too.
3. Of course Christians see many parallels with the NT :)
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The USA is NOT among the Ezekiel 38 list of nations that are prophesied to come up against Israel on the last day. No Christian nation is part of that Ezekiel 38 list. Who is then?
Nobody knows which most of the countries are. Where is Magog? What is Meshech and Tubal? Verse 5 mentions "Persia, Cush, and Put ", "Cush" is usually understood to be Ethiopia (but is it?), but where is "Put"? Where is Gomer and who is the house of Togarmah?
I've said this before, there's an obscure reference in the Talmud to Magog being "Gramamiah" which the medieval Jewish commentator Rashi says is Germany. Since Germany (as ostensibly Chirstian nation, mind you) murdered 1/3 of the world's Jews, seeing the prophecy as referring to them at least makes historical sense, if nothing else.
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Eze 38 refers to the mid eastern nations that will form the new Islamic caliphate. They are the 7th kingdom to afflict Isreal. They will be defeated but the deadly wound shall be healed and they shall reform as the 8th under the "little horn" or "antichrist"
Rv 17:10-11 And there are seven kings: five are fallen,(5) and one is,(6) and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.(7) And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth,(8/) and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
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Eze 38 refers to the mid eastern nations that will form the new Islamic caliphate.
How do you know?
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Eze 38 refers to the mid eastern nations that will form the new Islamic caliphate.
How do you know?
"know" limits flexibility so I am not dogmatic on it. However, I think a western view of the eze 38 nations being a cabal led by Russia is a little, shall we say "Hal Lindsey". I see it more as a unity of Islamic states, probably led by Turkey, attacking Israel. I see the ez 38 war as one distinct from the Zech 12 war which includes ALL nations. Not just the ones listed in Eze 38.
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I see it more as a unity of Islamic states, probably led by Turkey, attacking Israel.
And yet at the moment, the opposite seems to be happening. There is talk of Israel and Syria coming to a peace agreement. That would be added to Egypt, Jordan, the UAE, and maybe even Lebanon and the big prize, Saudi Arabia.
I see the ez 38 war as one distinct from the Zech 12 war which includes ALL nations. Not just the ones listed in Eze 38.
Maybe, maybe. I understand the desire to see the Muslims as evil, especially since they don't like Christians or Jews. Still, the big oppressors and killers of Jews over the last 20 centuries have been European; and once Christianity took root, Christians. Now, I see a difference between European Christians and the American variety, but that may not be obvious or even apparent to you.
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And yet at the moment, the opposite seems to be happening. There is talk of Israel and Syria coming to a peace agreement. That would be added to Egypt, Jordan, the UAE, and maybe even Lebanon and the big prize, Saudi Arabia.
How long do you think that will last? One of the foundational tenets of their religion is to destroy all Jews.
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How long do you think that will last? One of the foundational tenets of their religion is to destroy all Jews.
The Crusaders set their mind to kill or forcibly convert all the Jews in Europe before they took a single step towards the Holy Land. And they did kill substantial numbers of Jews, both in Europe and the middle east. Yet today Christianity is a pacifistic religion and many of its adherents are philosemitic.
The point is that religions can change. People can change. Islam may undergo a reformation. Or its followers may simply become less strict. Who knows, anything is possible.
After Israel and the UAE signed the Abraham Accords, I saw a Twitter account from the UAE post a video of a Hasidic man singing a song in Hebrew. The Arab man commented "beautiful job, cousin". So there are Arabs who see Jews as their cousins. As family. That doesn't mean that we have to all get along, because families do fight. But at the end of the day, they are still family.
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The Crusaders set their mind to kill or forcibly convert all the Jews in Europe before they took a single step towards the Holy Land. And they did kill substantial numbers of Jews, both in Europe and the middle east. Yet today Christianity is a pacifistic religion and many of its adherents are philosemitic.
The point is that religions can change. People can change. Islam may undergo a reformation. Or its followers may simply become less strict. Who knows, anything is possible.
After Israel and the UAE signed the Abraham Accords, I saw a Twitter account from the UAE post a video of a Hasidic man singing a song in Hebrew. The Arab man commented "beautiful job, cousin". So there are Arabs who see Jews as their cousins. As family. That doesn't mean that we have to all get along, because families do fight. But at the end of the day, they are still family.
Have you seen this? It looks like more than a simple squabble:
Middle East faces new crisis as Türkiye–Israel tensions escalate:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/middle-east-faces-new-crisis-as-t%C3%BCrkiye-israel-tensions-escalate/ar-AA1HYDNf?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=950013faf7c641548cae43cb434a5383&ei=11 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/middle-east-faces-new-crisis-as-t%C3%BCrkiye-israel-tensions-escalate/ar-AA1HYDNf?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=950013faf7c641548cae43cb434a5383&ei=11)
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Have you seen this? It looks like more than a simple squabble:
You're working very hard to make the Muslims an apocalyptic force vis a vis the Jews. Unfortunately events like the Holocaust already happened, and it's hard to see any Muslim army outdoing that. Maybe an Iranian nuke, but they're off the menu at the moment.
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Have you seen this? It looks like more than a simple squabble:
You're working very hard to make the Muslims an apocalyptic force vis a vis the Jews. Unfortunately events like the Holocaust already happened, and it's hard to see any Muslim army outdoing that. Maybe an Iranian nuke, but they're off the menu at the moment.
Did you even read the article or watch the video? Looks like you just posted a triggered response.
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"Triggered"? No, I'm talking about actual mass murder of Jews that already happened and you're bringing up hypothetical future conflict. They're not the same thing at all.
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"Triggered"? No, I'm talking about actual mass murder of Jews that already happened and you're bringing up hypothetical future conflict. They're not the same thing at all.
Well, Jews are being mass murdered to this day and it's not the Europeans that are doing it.
https://www.holocaustmuseumla.org/post/the-most-deadly-massacre-against-jews-since-the-holocaust (https://www.holocaustmuseumla.org/post/the-most-deadly-massacre-against-jews-since-the-holocaust)
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Well, Jews are being mass murdered to this day and it's not the Europeans that are doing it.
Occupational hazard of being Jewish.
Yes, we do have a terrible incident. Fortunately it is just one single incident.
We could compare the events of 10/7 to the town where my grandparents lived in Poland. Around 2,000 Jews lived there. Only 15 survived the war, 3 of them from my family. My 20 or so great uncles and aunts, with their spouses, and their children, gone. All gone.
Poland as a whole had 3 million Jews, of which 90% were murdered by war's end. People assume that the murder rate was consistent over the six years of the war, but that's incorrect. Between July and November of 1942, more than 1.5 million Jews were murdered in just 100 days.
Saying that some event was the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust does not put it on the same level as the Holocaust. That's off, by many orders of magnitude.
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Well, Jews are being mass murdered to this day and it's not the Europeans that are doing it.
Since I've made this post, Both the UK and France, ostensibly Christian countries, have announced that they are going to recognize a Palestinian state. Hamas still holds 50 Israeli hostages and refuses to lay down its arms, so this is rewarding terrorism. What does it say when Europe is lining up with Jihadists? It tells me it's the same old Europe.
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Germany, Cananda, and Portugal are all talking about recognizing a Palestinian state.
Sweden is asking the EU to stop all trade with Israel.
This is all happening this week.
These countries may not be sending soldiers to attack Israel, but they sure are providing tons of political cover to the entities that are.
You can't tell me that the Muslims are some apocalyptic force trying to destroy Israel while ignoring the "Christian" countries that are taking their side. It's not "Islam against Jews", it's "the world against the Jews", as it has always been. Sure, American Evangelical Christians are on Israel's side. But they're the only Christians that are, at least in appreciable numbers.
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Add Finland to the list.
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Many nations are siding with the Palestinians because they're getting the short end of the stick due to Hamas being outmatched. (But they're being treated a lot better than Israel would be if the roles were reversed). It's only because of Israel's resources and superior military prowess that the tiny nation doesn't fall prey to the sworn enemies who deny her very right to exist.
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Many nations are siding with the Palestinians because they're getting the short end of the stick due to Hamas being outmatched.
I don't believe that's the reason. They just don't like Jews.
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Germany, Cananda, and Portugal are all talking about recognizing a Palestinian state.
Sweden is asking the EU to stop all trade with Israel.
This is all happening this week.
These countries may not be sending soldiers to attack Israel, but they sure are providing tons of political cover to the entities that are.
You can't tell me that the Muslims are some apocalyptic force trying to destroy Israel while ignoring the "Christian" countries that are taking their side. It's not "Islam against Jews", it's "the world against the Jews", as it has always been. Sure, American Evangelical Christians are on Israel's side. But they're the only Christians that are, at least in appreciable numbers.
I actually agree with your statement "The world against the Jews" and I would expect this to mean you can't deny the possible apocalyptic ramifications of it.
Zec 12:2-3
Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
I believe that America is destined to turn it's back on Israel one day. The Obama/Biden machine gave us a small taste of that.
As far as the Europeans go, I only meant they weren't the ones invading Israel and murdering Jews (yet). However, I believe as well, that they will one day invade and join the Muslim world in attempting to destroy Israel. I say "attempt" because I believe that when the Lord Jesus Christ will return.
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I actually agree with your statement "The world against the Jews" and I would expect this to mean you can't deny the possible apocalyptic ramifications of it.
I quite agree.
My son is fond of saying "We all know how the story ends. All we have to do is decide our roles."
It's time.
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Central to the timeline of prophecy, Israel has for millennia been the protagonist in an epic saga. From the birth of a promised son to an elderly childless couple, to a fledgling group of Abraham's early descendants, to a mighty nation. From cruel slavery in Egypt to deliverance by God's mighty hand, through the wanderings in the Sinai desert to the Promised Land. From the pinnacle of the golden age of Solomon's reign, to divided kingdoms that both went into Gentile captivity, and from the restoration of Israel to the Diaspora.
Despite the best efforts of enemies from Pharaoh to Hitler, God preserved the resilient Jewish people just as he promised He would. From the dark valley of the Holocaust to the glorious dream of returning to their holy land, to the current struggles against modern enemies, the story continues today. And the day is coming when all nations gathered against Israel will find they are fighting against God Himself. As the writer of Hebrews tells us: "it's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
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Aaaand the Irish president is calling on the UN to invoke Chapter 7, the Security Council's powers to address threats to international peace and security. He wants the UN to send a force into Gaza to protect the Palestinians from Israel.
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Blue helmet = target
Geez Louise
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More than half of Senate Democrats, 27 of 47, voted to cut aid to Israel. The vote failed 27-70.
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Blue helmet = target
Geez Louise
I don't think he intends for Irish troops to be fighting Israel and protecting Hamas. The Irish military doesn't have a single armored fighting vehicle or combat aircraft. In fact they only have 6,322 active combat troops.
No, he intends the soldiers of other countries to die for his stupidity and moral backwardness. Probably starting with the US. He probably lays up in bed at night and fantasizes about the US and IDF killing each other over Hamas.
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I'm not an "end timesy" kind of guy. Still, sometimes things happen in the world that do seem to fit the literal text of some ancient prophecy. The goings on in Israel right now in some way fit the text of Zechariah 12. To wit-
A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.
The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’
“On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.
“The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them.
Some observations.
"On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her"
The UN and most of the nations in the world are standing against Israel right now. This began right after the Hamas pogrom against Israel on 10/7, even before Israel took the war to Gaza. And all those nations are now insisting that Israel stop, right now, even as the war seems near won. Or perhaps because the war seems near won.
Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.
The city of Jerusalem has been the safest place in Israel during this war. The south of the country has been evacuated because of the war with Hamas and the north of the country has been evacuated because of ongoing Hizbullah attacks. Tel Aviv came under frequent missile fire from Gaza. But Jerusalem alone has been almost incident free.
the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them
I can't think of a better description of the IDF.
The IDF has been operating in a dense, fortified urban zone, with Hamas combatants hiding amongst civilians and fighting while not in unform. The IDF is taking great pains to safeguard civilian lives. In spite of this, they have killed at least 10,000 Hamas fighters and permanently incapacitated 10,000 more. 75% of Hamas fighting brigades are out of action. The cost to Israel has been 224 IDF soldiers killed in combat. Don't get me wrong, every single IDF death is a tragedy. But that kill ratio can only be explained by God's protection of those brave soldiers.
I have more understanding of the rest of the chapter, but I'm going to pause here for now.
So is my understanding of current events.
Chapter and verses divisions were only added to the scriptures in 1227 AD. In my opinion chapters 12 & 14 of Zechariah are all talking about the same period.
But my opinion makes no difference because I think almost everyone is missing the point with this and with what is going on, because what God said to Judah long, long ago in a warning to them, applies to each and every individual human being, and to all nations:
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
Sheol hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:
But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness. Isaiah 5:18 & 20 & 14-16
It was a warning to Judah because of its behavior back in the ancient day, but I believe it applies to all the nations equally who do the same (and even worse. Much worse).
Jerusalem was the place Judah was judged for its iniquity - more than once. Jerusalem is the place the nations will be judged for their iniquity.
Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished. Jeremiah 46:28.
Words like the above speak for themselves and contain a principle - but the nations do not understand that principle, and so they are rushing headlong into that judgment - because "their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.
Their feet are swift to shed blood. Destruction and misery are in their ways, and the way of peace have they not known. (They prove that) there is no (real and true) fear of God before their eyes.(Romans 3:13-18).
And it's all directed against the Jews and against Israel. That's why Jerusalem is the place where the nations will be judged and God will be sanctified in those He has saved from their sins and in those He will save from the hand of their enemies when the time comes and the Messiah sets His feet once again on the Mount of Olives. Revelation 19:11-15 is IMO linked to that time in Zechariah 12 & 14.
But the Jews must learn not to place their faith in the IDF, nor in the allegiance of any nation (including the USA). Nor should the USA place their faith in the US's military might if they switch sides when the time comes. Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of Lords, and this war against Jews in general and against Israel is unjust and evil, and based on putting evil for good and good for evil, darkness and lies for light and truth, and truth and light for lies and darkness.
And that's the point almost all humans are missing today.
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Chapter and verses divisions were only added to the scriptures in 1227 AD.
Stephen Langton first added chapter divisions in ~1227 into the Vulgate. Verse divisions, however, didn't come along until ~1551 when Robert Stephanus introduced them into his Greek and Latin editions of the New Testament. Even then, it wasn't until ~1560 that both made their way into the Geneva Bible, and it was Mordecai Nathan who added verses to the "Old Testament" in ~1448 (I'm not sure about chapters).
Anyway, I'm even less "end timesy" than Fenris.
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Stephen Langton first added chapter divisions in ~1227 into the Vulgate.
And in many instances, so awkwardly placed.
Anyway, I'm even less "end timesy" than Fenris.
Sometimes it is fun to let the imagination roam.
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But the Jews must learn not to place their faith in the IDF
I mean, God always controls the outcome. But we still have to do our part.
and this war against Jews in general and against Israel is unjust and evil, and based on putting evil for good and good for evil, darkness and lies for light and truth, and truth and light for lies and darkness.
And that's the point almost all humans are missing today.
Agree 100%
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Stephen Langton first added chapter divisions in ~1227 into the Vulgate.
And in many instances, so awkwardly placed.
Anyway, I'm even less "end timesy" than Fenris.
Sometimes it is fun to let the imagination roam.
Apparently, he decided upon the placement while riding horseback. Soooooo maybe not necessarily the best time to be doing something so important.
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Apparently, he decided upon the placement while riding horseback. Soooooo maybe not necessarily the best time to be doing something so important.
Is that the medieval equivalent of texting while driving?
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Apparently, he decided upon the placement while riding horseback. Soooooo maybe not necessarily the best time to be doing something so important.
Is that the medieval equivalent of texting while driving?
I think it is!
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Germany has placed an arms embargo on Israel.
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Germany has placed an arms embargo on Israel.
Increasing pressure from the international community is causing even the UK to consider joining the embargo. As long as the US remains a supplier, Israel will be alright. The relentless campaign against Hamas and other enemies of Israel has led many to forget the vicious assault on 10/7 that initiated the current conflict in the first place. (Which would be repeated if Hamas were given the chance). The collateral damage sustained by the Palestinians is regrettable, but that's a far cry from the deliberate targeting of civilians routinely perpetrated by Hamas--whom the Palestinians voted into power.
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Australia is recognizing a Palestinian state.
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Increasing pressure from the international community is causing even the UK to consider joining the embargo.
Back to Zechariah 12:3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.
Who remains supporting Israel right now? America, Argentina, maybe Taiwan? Anyone else?
The collateral damage sustained by the Palestinians is regrettable
46% of all the humanitarian aid in the world right now is being sent to Gaza. Not because the suffering in Gaza is so great; for just one example, there are 15 million refugees in the Sudan, and 25 million people are starving. This is an order of magnitude larger than what's going in in Gaza.
So why doesn't anyone care?
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Norway is reducing investment in Israel.
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Gonna have to find another source for gefilte fish
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[
46% of all the humanitarian aid in the world right now is being sent to Gaza.
Where did this number come from? Just link me a source please, because frankly I do not believe you.
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where did this number come from? Just link me a source please, because frankly I do not believe you.
Stop polluting my discussions with your nonsense. Go away.
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Gonna have to find another source for gefilte fish
My wife started using this Moroccan recipe: Slice the gelfile fish loaf into slices and fry them in tomato sauce with onions and peppers. It's delicious!
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where did this number come from? Just link me a source please, because frankly I do not believe you.
Stop polluting my discussions with your nonsense. Go away.
Do you have a source for that 46% claim or not? I haven't found anything that supports your claim. If it makes you feel better, then don't post the source for me, but for people who actually might want to know more about the details behind 46% of all the humanitarian aid in the world right being sent to Gaza. Is refusing to just point out your source really taking a stand against my 'nonsense' in any meaningful way, or is it just making it more difficult for anyone else to simply verify your statement at their own discretion? It's true if I find fault with your source I will criticize it as I'm want to do, but what do you care? It would just serve to further exemplify how wrong I am and how right you are, no?
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This is why we can't have nice things.
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Do you have a source for that 46% claim or not?
I don't have discussions with Hamas sympathizers and Nazi apologists.
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The Italian prime minister says that the Israeli government has "lost its humanity".
Whose side did Italy take during World War 2? I forget.
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Do you have a source for that 46% claim or not?
I don't have discussions with Hamas sympathizers and Nazi apologists, so fuck off.
You typed all that out, why not just hook me up with a link?
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Do you have a source for that 46% claim or not?
I don't have discussions with Hamas sympathizers and Nazi apologists {snip}
Yiddish, Fenris! Yiddish!!! Oy!
😱🤬
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I've reviewed the exchanges between Fenris and Oscar and banned Oscar.
I was considering doing the same to you, Fenris, and the only reason I didn't is that you didn't read as if you were concern trolling to aggravate, but it was close, because though Oscar knew he was trying to get a reaction, he was right to question that 46% stat. I was hoping you two could agree to leave each other be, but I guess I get to now be the ass.
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I've reviewed the exchanges between Fenris and Oscar and banned Oscar.
I was considering doing the same to you, Fenris, and the only reason I didn't is that you didn't read as if you were concern trolling to aggravate, but it was close, because though Oscar knew he was trying to get a reaction, he was right to question that 46% stat. I was hoping you two could agree to leave each other be, but I guess I get to now be the ass.
But you are always the ass…
No wait
Did I type that out loud.?
Correct call, not just because of this exchange in which Oscar advocated for Hamas in the most disgusting passive aggressive sugar wouldn’t met in his mouth morally and intellectually superior manner, but because that has been his general approach to all of us throughout
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I'm not trying to cause problems. I have never tried to cause problems. I enjoy having a nice discussion with people, whether I agree with them or not. But. I draw the line at people who sympathize with terrorists or make excuses for the Nazis. On social media sites that allow blocking, I block such members. I have shared personal, family history on this forum and you all know that the Nazis murdered all of my father's uncles and aunts along with their entire families. My son lives in Israel, and I have to worry every time that there is a missile alert. I will not have discussions with people who make excuses for such activity.
I think this is an amazing group and I'm glad to be here.
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We’re glad you are one of us as well…
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But you are always the ass…
No wait
Did I type that out loud.?
;D
Correct call, not just because of this exchange in which Oscar advocated for Hamas in the most disgusting passive aggressive sugar wouldn’t met in his mouth morally and intellectually superior manner, but because that has been his general approach to all of us throughout
Yeah, and I read back to around July 12th when the exchange of the day was Mamdani and intifada, and the treatment of "intifada" there was fantastically disingenuous. Reading then up through today (August 11th), well, decision made.
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While one can find subtle nuance in most things, in order to see it in the Nazis or Islamic terrorists as Oscar claims, one must step outside of reality. It's beyond me how one can think advances in science achieved during Hitler's reign somehow balances out a calculated, concerted campaign of genocide against Jews. Oscar has always has been a black cloud on the forum me, and I won't miss him. Athanasius made the right call.
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Continuing on this bizarre topic, the French government will no longer be issuing work visas for Israelis who work security at the Israeli airline's El Al counter. El Al security are extremely thorough and very good at picking out individuals who will cause trouble, or worse. This means that the security will fall to the French TSA or equivalent. Do I have a good feeling about this? I do not.
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Continuing on this bizarre topic, the French government will no longer be issuing work visas for Israelis who work security at the Israeli airline's El Al counter. El Al security are extremely thorough and very good at picking out individuals who will cause trouble, or worse. This means that the security will fall to the French TSA or equivalent. Do I have a good feeling about this? I do not.
I hope El Al stops all its flight to The Land of Surrender Monkeys immediately.
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Just some thoughts.
I wonder if the Jewish time in the West is over.
Jews have been in the West since there was a West. They lived in Greece and Rome before the first century. It was not always a peaceful coexistence. As Jewish essayist Maurice Samuel once put it, “no one loves his alarm clock." And Jews, however imperfectly they lived their lives, did represent a higher calling of perfecting the world under God's rule.
If Jewish existence in the west ends, I do not think that it will look like previous negative encounters in the west. There were mass expulsions of Jews in the middle ages, England in 1290, France in 1308, Spain in 1492, and so on. There were pogroms and mass murder against Jews, during the Crusades, for example, or the Cossack revolution in Russia led by Bogdan Chmielnicki, which murdered hundreds of thousands of Jews. And of course we have the Holocaust. But I don't think Jewish life in the West will end in those ways. I think it will be something softer, something more insidious. It will be that fact that Jews won't have the same rights or legal protections as other citizens. For example, a 65 year old French Jewish woman named Sarah Attal-Halimi was murdered by her neighbor, one Kobili Traoré, an African Muslim. He shouted "Allah Ahkabr" while he beat her to death and then threw her body out of the window. He was found not guilty of the murder because he was high on marijuana at the time. It's little things like that. They add up. It's even happened here, under the Biden administration Jewish students on college campuses were harassed and not permitted to go to class by protesters. This behavior was not punished until Trump became president. What is a NYC under Mamdani going to look like? Or an America under a president AOC? Does anyone believe that Jews will receive fair and equal treatment under the law?
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T S Eliot concludes “The Hollow Men” with the triad “this is the way the world ends” then “not with a bang, but a whimper.”
As the West secularizes everything and as church remains silent to evil in support of the Christian-Industrial Religious Complex, those expressing faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will become more and more excluded and marginalized, and of course the Christian Industrial Religous Complex has a 2000 year old history of using Jews as scapegoats
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The West is already dead, we're just all still a bit slow in recognising it.
For now, I grab my popcorn and watch as authoritarianism takes hold. I would have never guessed it'd be called "Donald".
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As the West secularizes everything and as church remains silent to evil in support of the Christian-Industrial Religious Complex, those expressing faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will become more and more excluded and marginalized, and of course the Christian Industrial Religous Complex has a 2000 year old history of using Jews as scapegoats
Europe is already post-Christian. More people attend services at mosques than at churches. Does the same thing happen here? For a long time I have felt that Europe is a "Christian" continent while America is a "Judeo-Christian" continent. Does that stave off what is happening in Europe? I do not know.
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For now, I grab my popcorn and watch as authoritarianism takes hold. I would have never guessed it'd be called "Donald".
Trump is far from a prefect president. However, with regards to the topic at hand of exclusion of Jews from public life, he is reversing the trend of what is going on in Europe.
Being Jewish means seeing the world differently (as I know Christians do also). If a country is good to its Jews, then we tend to view it as a benevolent country, as they usually are. If a country is bad to its Jews, then its about to get bad for a whole lot of other people really soon. In this sense Trump is far preferrable to Obama, or Biden, or Kamela, or Starmer, or Macron...
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The Toronto film festival cancelled a documentary about the October 7 attacks by Hamas, because, wait for it, the terrorists who filmed the attacks own the footage and haven't given consent to show it.
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For now, I grab my popcorn and watch as authoritarianism takes hold. I would have never guessed it'd be called "Donald".
Trump is far from a prefect president. However, with regards to the topic at hand of exclusion of Jews from public life, he is reversing the trend of what is going on in Europe.
Being Jewish means seeing the world differently (as I know Christians do also). If a country is good to its Jews, then we tend to view it as a benevolent country, as they usually are. If a country is bad to its Jews, then its about to get bad for a whole lot of other people really soon. In this sense Trump is far preferrable to Obama, or Biden, or Kamela, or Starmer, or Macron...
A concern I have is that unless Donald really did try to hold onto his seat of power (and that comes with its own grave concerns), when the pendulum swings, the authoritarian actions he's taken will be adopted by whoever next comes into power. If that group isn't favourable towards Israel, it will have the ability to be far crueller towards her than if Donald hadn't acted as he did. I guess I'm worried that "yay Donald" risks being a short-term reprieve.
Donald leaves in 2028, and the Democrats win, now more authoritarian than ever.
I'm in a country that is in the process of stripping from me a large portion of my legal protections. Why? To be US Lite buddy-buddy with Donald.
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A concern I have is that unless Donald really did try to hold onto his seat of power (and that comes with its own grave concerns), when the pendulum swings, the authoritarian actions he's taken will be adopted by whoever next comes into power. If that group isn't favourable towards Israel, it will have the ability to be far crueller towards her than if Donald hadn't acted as he did. I guess I'm worried that "yay Donald" risks being a short-term reprieve.
I agree with everything that you said here 100%. I'm a small government conservative, maybe even a libertarian, and any expansion of government power is bad.
Still, we had the choices that we were given, and Donald >>>>>>>Kamela. We will deal with the 2028 problems in 2028.
I'm in a country that is in the process of stripping from me a large portion of my legal protections. Why? To be US Lite buddy-buddy with Donald.
Which country is that, if I may ask?
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I agree with everything that you said here 100%. I'm a small government conservative, maybe even a libertarian, and any expansion of government power is bad.
Still, we had the choices that we were given, and Donald >>>>>>>Kamela. We will deal with the 2028 problems in 2028.
For all our sakes I hope they're "better" problems than 2025 problems, and probably also 2026, 2027...
Which country is that, if I may ask?
The UK
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For all our sakes I hope they're "better" problems than 2025 problems, and probably also 2026, 2027...
Who knows. They will for sure be different problems.
The UK
I think your government is embarking on an entirely different set of problems, unrelated to the Donald. The opposite in many ways. But yes, authoritarian.
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Still, we had the choices that we were given, and Donald >>>>>>>Kamela.
That's what it boils down to. We had a choice between two candidates--as an independent like the Libertarians still struggles to gain traction against the two major parties.The bottom line is, for all Trump's faults, he was a better choice than what the discombobulated Democrats had to offer, and a majority of American voters recognized that, so here we are. What happens in 2026 and 2028 is anybody's guess.
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I think your government is embarking on an entirely different set of problems, unrelated to the Donald. The opposite in many ways. But yes, authoritarian.
I have to run a VPN 24/7 now because of the so-called "Online Safety Act". On the one hand, we have GDPR and cookie notices, and on the other, the expectation that we'll upload PII to anyone who asks to prove we are who we say we are (i.e. really, to eliminate anonymity, control information, track the population, etc.). I know Carlin used to get shit on for his whole "fascism won the Second World War" stuff, but I'm really starting to wonder.
And if you don't run a VPN, you just won't know that you aren't seeing A, B, C information. It's just not there. Advert for another political party? Can't see it. Al Jazeera? Can't see it. Reports on Israel, Iran, Gaza? Can't see them. Reports on migrants? Can't see them. We basically have a Ministry of Truth now, and Thought Crime is quickly becoming a thing. Oh, you want to view that piece about the political classes' VPN use? Citizenship, to keep the children safe, take a selfie with your ID and address, to keep the children safe.
I'm going to have to start peeling onions soon.
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I have to run a VPN 24/7 now because of the so-called "Online Safety Act". On the one hand, we have GDPR and cookie notices, and on the other, the expectation that we'll upload PII to anyone who asks to prove we are who we say we are (i.e. really, to eliminate anonymity, control information, track the population, etc.). I know Carlin used to get shit on for his whole "fascism won the Second World War" stuff, but I'm really starting to wonder.
And if you don't run a VPN, you just won't know that you aren't seeing A, B, C information. It's just not there. Advert for another political party? Can't see it. Al Jazeera? Can't see it. Reports on Israel, Iran, Gaza? Can't see them. Reports on migrants? Can't see them. We basically have a Ministry of Truth now, and Thought Crime is quickly becoming a thing. Oh, you want to view that piece about the political classes' VPN use? Citizenship, to keep the children safe, take a selfie with your ID and address, to keep the children safe.
I'm going to have to start peeling onions soon.
That is just... crazy. As you say, straight out of "1984".
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MiniTru
Room 101, Winston
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I have to run a VPN 24/7 now because of the so-called "Online Safety Act". On the one hand, we have GDPR and cookie notices, and on the other, the expectation that we'll upload PII to anyone who asks to prove we are who we say we are (i.e. really, to eliminate anonymity, control information, track the population, etc.). I know Carlin used to get shit on for his whole "fascism won the Second World War" stuff, but I'm really starting to wonder.
And if you don't run a VPN, you just won't know that you aren't seeing A, B, C information. It's just not there. Advert for another political party? Can't see it. Al Jazeera? Can't see it. Reports on Israel, Iran, Gaza? Can't see them. Reports on migrants? Can't see them. We basically have a Ministry of Truth now, and Thought Crime is quickly becoming a thing. Oh, you want to view that piece about the political classes' VPN use? Citizenship, to keep the children safe, take a selfie with your ID and address, to keep the children safe.
I'm going to have to start peeling onions soon.
That is just... crazy. As you say, straight out of "1984".
Multiple US states are going down this same road.
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Belgium is placing sanctions on Israel "for committing war crimes".
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The mouse that roared.
All of the EuroTrash is simply demonstrating their collective antisemitism for absolutely no purpose. Evil just can't help itself.
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Yeah I find myself particularly upset that Jews were treated poorly in Europe for 20 centuries. Crusades, the Inquisition, pogroms, locked in ghettos, excluded from public life and universities, and many instances of mass murder culminating in the 20th century with a very successful go at complete eradication. And now that Jews have left Europe to build a country of their own, the Europeans still won't stop their bullying.
Israeli author Amos Oz observed that as a child, he saw graffiti in Europe proclaiming "Jews to Palestine". As an adult he saw graffiti in Europe demanding "Jews out of Palestine". His conclusion: "Don't be here and don't be there. Don't be."
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And while the fools in Europe sit around and wring their hands and send Greta the Climate Control Gnome on yet another "rescue mission" for the poor Gazans and Hamas and Hezbollah, they ignore a Muslim invasion already so prolific and widespread that it makes Al-Andalus look like 2 Muslim guys in a soccer stadium by comparison.
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No question, Europe has bigger issues than what's going on in the middle east. Putin, for one. An actual Arab invasion, facilitated by the European governments, for another. But I guess it's great that everyone can rally around that one unifying issue, the bullying of Jews.
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Spain is placing Israel under an arms embargo, and may cut relations and economic ties entirely.
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Why am I no surprised?
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Spain: "We are on the right side of history".
Also Spain:
Expelled all Jews in 1492
Inquisition: 1478 to 1834
Was sympathetic to and supportive of the Nazis
Only became a democracy in 1978.
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Spanish PM said that Spain can't stop Israel because 'Spain does not have nuclear weapons.'
Spain would nuke Israel to protect Hamas?
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Spain has always been jealous that they are not France
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NYC Democrat candidate for mayor, Mamdani, says that he will have the Israeli prime minister Benjaman Netanyahu arrested if he comes to NYC.
This ignores the fact that municipal police departments do not have the authority to carry out international arrest warrants, and the fact that neither Israel nor the United States are signatories to the ICC.
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He's demonstrating his ignorance. It amazes me that Mamdani could be the next mayor of NYC. I mean, a clearly antisemitic mayor in a city with the largest Jewish population in America just doesn't gel. If he is elected, the entitlement-minded, useful idiots who voted him in deserve the hot mess he's going to create.
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Unfortunately, people who live or work in the city are going to have to deal with his socialism, antisemitism, and general incompetence, whether they voted for him or not.
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Unfortunately, people who live or work in the city are going to have to deal with his socialism, antisemitism, and general incompetence, whether they voted for him or not.
Yes
Do retired NYPD get to continue to carry concealed?
Asking for a friend who will have to protect his family during the dark days ahead…
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Do retired NYPD get to continue to carry concealed?
It used to be a crazy patchwork of laws and rules, until 2004 when GWB signed this into effect:
https://le.nra.org/understanding-leosa/leosa/
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The UK has banned Israeli students from attending the prestigious Royal College of Defence Studies.
Nationals from Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen, Qatar, and even "Palestine" are invited to attend.
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Eurovision is a European international song competition. 52 countries have participated at one point or another. Israel has been a regular participant over the last few years. Because of what is going on in Gaza, Ireland, Iceland, Slovenia, the Netherlands, and Spain have all announced they will pull out of the upcoming contest if Israel is there. It may seem like a trivial thing, but it is not. Just as Jews in the middle ages were not allowed to participate in public life in Europe, now the Jewish state is not allowed to participate in public events in Europe. This is shameful.
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Yes
It certainly is
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The UN has ruled that Israel is committing genocide. Their evidence is that the IDF "has killed members of a group", which is by their new and improved definition "genocide". Using this definition, any war is a genocide. Amazing that the UN has been around for 79 years and has never accused anyone else of this.
This reminds me of the story about Harvard President A. Lawrence Lowell's effort to reduce the number of Jews at that university in the 1920s. His reason was that "Jews cheat". When someone else pointed out that all college students cheat, he replied, "Yes, but we're talking about Jews now".
Different rules for Jews than for everyone else.
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The UN is not much difference than the voting for the Academy Awards
Useless except for people who think it matters
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European Commission chief Ursula von der Leyen on Israel:
“we propose to sanction extremist ministers and violent settlers, and suspend trade concessions with Israel' and to also 'put bilateral support to Israel on hold”
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Another "flotilla" is sailing, ostensibly to bring aid to Gaza. It's not just protesters this time, there are actual terrorism-affiliated individuals on these ships.
The Spanish prime minister announced that he is sending a vessel from the Spanish navy to escort them.
I didn't think that an EU member state would be willing to go to war with Israel to protect Hamas, yet here we are.
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Italy is also sending a naval escort now.
Pardon my language, but what the hell is going on?
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Spain is apparently asking the Israelis to sink their little patrol boat so they can collect in the insurance…
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I am not amused. The EU would love an excuse to make things even more difficult for Israel.
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Beloved, illustrious US president says "He" will not allow Israel's annexation of Gasa.
BBC News https://share.google/FBso9QiE23d38LChy
"I will not allow Israel to annex the West Bank ... It's not going to happen."
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Beloved, illustrious US president says "He" will not allow Israel's annexation of the West Bank
BBC News https://share.google/FBso9QiE23d38LChy
"I will not allow Israel to annex the West Bank ... It's not going to happen." U.S. President Donald Trump
Gentile king...? Go ahead, make my day!
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Of course, Donald Trump says many things that have no bearing on reality.
He also claims to have a deal in the works that will satisfy Europe, the Arab countries, and Hamas. If it checks those boxes, Israel will never agree to it. So I have no idea where we are.
Meanwhile, the Greek navy is also sending a naval vessel to escort the flotilla.
It looks like Israel will be kicked out of the UEFA.
In Numbers 23, we have Balaam's magnificent blessings that were intended as curses. He says that Israel "is a nation that will dwell alone". It wasn't an order to the nations, guys. These are hateful actions against a despised minority specifically because '"You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD' (Isaiah 43). And Zechariah 12 " all the nations of the earth are gathered against her" becomes more true with every passing day.