Zechariah 12

[Fenris]

How long do you think that will last? One of the foundational tenets of their religion is to destroy all Jews.

The Crusaders set their mind to kill or forcibly convert all the Jews in Europe before they took a single step towards the Holy Land. And they did kill substantial numbers of Jews, both in Europe and the middle east. Yet today Christianity is a pacifistic religion and many of its adherents are philosemitic.

The point is that religions can change. People can change. Islam may undergo a reformation. Or its followers may simply become less strict. Who knows, anything is possible.

After Israel and the UAE signed the Abraham Accords, I saw a Twitter account from the UAE post a video of a Hasidic man singing a song in Hebrew. The Arab man commented "beautiful job, cousin". So there are Arabs who see Jews as their cousins. As family. That doesn't mean that we have to all get along, because families do fight. But at the end of the day, they are still family.   

[shepherdsword]

The Crusaders set their mind to kill or forcibly convert all the Jews in Europe before they took a single step towards the Holy Land. And they did kill substantial numbers of Jews, both in Europe and the middle east. Yet today Christianity is a pacifistic religion and many of its adherents are philosemitic.

The point is that religions can change. People can change. Islam may undergo a reformation. Or its followers may simply become less strict. Who knows, anything is possible.

After Israel and the UAE signed the Abraham Accords, I saw a Twitter account from the UAE post a video of a Hasidic man singing a song in Hebrew. The Arab man commented "beautiful job, cousin". So there are Arabs who see Jews as their cousins. As family. That doesn't mean that we have to all get along, because families do fight. But at the end of the day, they are still family.

Have you seen this? It looks like more than a simple squabble:

Middle East faces new crisis as Türkiye–Israel tensions escalate:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/middle-east-faces-new-crisis-as-t%C3%BCrkiye-israel-tensions-escalate/ar-AA1HYDNf?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=950013faf7c641548cae43cb434a5383&ei=11

[Fenris]

Have you seen this? It looks like more than a simple squabble:

You're working very hard to make the Muslims an apocalyptic force vis a vis the Jews. Unfortunately events like the Holocaust already happened, and it's hard to see any Muslim army outdoing that. Maybe an Iranian nuke, but they're off the menu at the moment.

[shepherdsword]

Have you seen this? It looks like more than a simple squabble:

You're working very hard to make the Muslims an apocalyptic force vis a vis the Jews. Unfortunately events like the Holocaust already happened, and it's hard to see any Muslim army outdoing that. Maybe an Iranian nuke, but they're off the menu at the moment.

Did you even read the article or watch the video? Looks like you just posted a triggered response.

[Fenris]

"Triggered"? No, I'm talking about actual mass murder of Jews that already happened and you're bringing up hypothetical future conflict. They're not the same thing at all.

[shepherdsword]

"Triggered"? No, I'm talking about actual mass murder of Jews that already happened and you're bringing up hypothetical future conflict. They're not the same thing at all.

Well, Jews are being mass murdered to this day and it's not the Europeans that are doing it.

https://www.holocaustmuseumla.org/post/the-most-deadly-massacre-against-jews-since-the-holocaust

[Fenris]

Well, Jews are being mass murdered to this day and it's not the Europeans that are doing it.

Occupational hazard of being Jewish.

Yes, we do have a terrible incident. Fortunately it is just one single incident.

We could compare the events of 10/7 to the town where my grandparents lived in Poland. Around 2,000 Jews lived there. Only 15 survived the war, 3 of them from my family. My 20 or so great uncles and aunts, with their spouses, and their children, gone. All gone.

Poland as a whole had 3 million Jews, of which 90% were murdered by war's end. People assume that the murder rate was consistent over the six years of the war, but that's incorrect. Between July and November of 1942, more than 1.5 million Jews were murdered in just 100 days.

Saying that some event was the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust does not put it on the same level as the Holocaust. That's off, by many orders of magnitude.

[Fenris]

Well, Jews are being mass murdered to this day and it's not the Europeans that are doing it.

Since I've made this post, Both the UK and France, ostensibly Christian countries, have announced that they are going to recognize a Palestinian state. Hamas still holds 50 Israeli hostages and refuses to lay down its arms, so this is rewarding terrorism. What does it say when Europe is lining up with Jihadists? It tells me it's the same old Europe.

[Fenris]

Germany, Cananda, and Portugal are all talking about recognizing a Palestinian state.

Sweden is asking the EU to stop all trade with Israel.

This is all happening this week.

These countries may not be sending soldiers to attack Israel, but they sure are providing tons of political cover to the entities that are.

You can't tell me that the Muslims are some apocalyptic force trying to destroy Israel while ignoring the "Christian" countries that are taking their side. It's not "Islam against Jews", it's "the world against the Jews", as it has always been. Sure, American Evangelical Christians are on Israel's side. But they're the only Christians that are, at least in appreciable numbers.

[Fenris]

Add Finland to the list.

[Sojourner]

Many nations are siding with the Palestinians because they're getting the short end of the stick due to Hamas being outmatched. (But they're being treated a lot better than Israel would be if the roles were reversed). It's only because of Israel's resources and superior military prowess that the tiny nation doesn't fall prey to the sworn enemies who deny her very right to exist.

[Fenris]

Many nations are siding with the Palestinians because they're getting the short end of the stick due to Hamas being outmatched.

I don't believe that's the reason. They just don't like Jews.

[shepherdsword]

Germany, Cananda, and Portugal are all talking about recognizing a Palestinian state.

Sweden is asking the EU to stop all trade with Israel.

This is all happening this week.

These countries may not be sending soldiers to attack Israel, but they sure are providing tons of political cover to the entities that are.

You can't tell me that the Muslims are some apocalyptic force trying to destroy Israel while ignoring the "Christian" countries that are taking their side. It's not "Islam against Jews", it's "the world against the Jews", as it has always been. Sure, American Evangelical Christians are on Israel's side. But they're the only Christians that are, at least in appreciable numbers.

I actually agree with your statement "The world against the Jews" and I would expect this to mean you can't deny the possible apocalyptic ramifications of it.

Zec 12:2-3
Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

I believe that America is destined to turn it's back on Israel one day. The Obama/Biden machine gave us a small taste of that.
As far as the Europeans go, I only meant they weren't the ones invading Israel and murdering Jews (yet). However, I believe as well, that they will one day invade and join the Muslim world in attempting to destroy Israel. I say "attempt" because I believe that when the Lord Jesus Christ will return.


 

[Fenris]

I actually agree with your statement "The world against the Jews" and I would expect this to mean you can't deny the possible apocalyptic ramifications of it.

I quite agree.

My son is fond of saying "We all know how the story ends. All we have to do is decide our roles."

It's time.

[Sojourner]

Central to the timeline of prophecy, Israel has for millennia been the protagonist in an epic saga. From the birth of a promised son to an elderly childless couple, to a fledgling group of Abraham's early descendants, to a mighty nation. From cruel slavery in Egypt to deliverance by God's mighty hand, through the wanderings in the Sinai desert to the Promised Land. From the pinnacle of the golden age of Solomon's reign, to divided kingdoms that both went into Gentile captivity, and from the restoration of Israel to the Diaspora.

Despite the best efforts of enemies from Pharaoh to Hitler, God preserved the resilient Jewish people just as he promised He would. From the dark valley of the Holocaust to the glorious dream of returning to their holy land, to the current struggles against modern enemies, the story continues today. And the day is coming when all nations gathered against Israel will find they are fighting against God Himself. As the writer of Hebrews tells us: "it's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."