Zechariah 12

[Fenris]

Aaaand the Irish president is calling on the UN to invoke Chapter 7, the Security Council's powers to address threats to international peace and security. He wants the UN to send a force into Gaza to protect the Palestinians from Israel.

[RabbiKnife]

Blue helmet = target

Geez Louise

[Fenris]

More than half of Senate Democrats, 27 of 47, voted to cut aid to Israel. The vote failed 27-70.

[Fenris]

Blue helmet = target

Geez Louise

I don't think he intends for Irish troops to be fighting Israel and protecting Hamas. The Irish military doesn't have a single armored fighting vehicle or combat aircraft. In fact they only have 6,322 active combat troops.

No, he intends the soldiers of other countries to die for his stupidity and moral backwardness. Probably starting with the US. He probably lays up in bed at night and fantasizes about the US and IDF killing each other over Hamas.

[zao is alive]

I'm not an "end timesy" kind of guy. Still, sometimes things happen in the world that do seem to fit the literal text of some ancient prophecy. The goings on in Israel right now in some way fit the text of Zechariah 12. To wit-

A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.

The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares:  “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem.  On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.  On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations.  Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’

 “On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.

 “The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah.  On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them.

Some observations.

"On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her"

The UN and most of the nations in the world are standing against Israel right now. This began right after the Hamas pogrom against Israel on 10/7, even before Israel took the war to Gaza. And all those nations are now insisting that Israel stop, right now, even as the war seems near won. Or perhaps because the war seems near won.

Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.

The city of Jerusalem has been the safest place in Israel during this war. The south of the country has been evacuated because of the war with Hamas and the north of the country has been evacuated because of ongoing Hizbullah attacks. Tel Aviv came under frequent missile fire from Gaza. But Jerusalem alone has been almost incident free.

the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them

I can't think of a better description of the IDF.

The IDF has been operating in a dense, fortified urban zone, with Hamas combatants hiding amongst civilians and fighting while not in unform. The IDF is taking great pains to safeguard civilian lives. In spite of this, they have killed at least 10,000 Hamas fighters and permanently incapacitated 10,000 more. 75% of Hamas fighting brigades are out of action. The cost to Israel has been 224 IDF soldiers killed in combat. Don't get me wrong, every single IDF death is a tragedy. But that kill ratio can only be explained by God's protection of those brave soldiers.   

I have more understanding of the rest of the chapter, but I'm going to pause here for now.

So is my understanding of current events.

Chapter and verses divisions were only added to the scriptures in 1227 AD. In my opinion chapters 12 & 14 of Zechariah are all talking about the same period.

But my opinion makes no difference because I think almost everyone is missing the point with this and with what is going on, because what God said to Judah long, long ago in a warning to them, applies to each and every individual human being, and to all nations:

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:

Sheol hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:

But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness. Isaiah 5:18 & 20 & 14-16

It was a warning to Judah because of its behavior back in the ancient day, but I believe it applies to all the nations equally who do the same (and even worse. Much worse).

Jerusalem was the place Judah was judged for its iniquity - more than once. Jerusalem is the place the nations will be judged for their iniquity.

Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished. Jeremiah 46:28.

Words like the above speak for themselves and contain a principle - but the nations do not understand that principle, and so they are rushing headlong into that judgment - because "their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.

Their feet are swift to shed blood. Destruction and misery are in their ways, and the way of peace have they not known. (They prove that) there is no (real and true) fear of God before their eyes.(Romans 3:13-18).

And it's all directed against the Jews and against Israel. That's why Jerusalem is the place where the nations will be judged and God will be sanctified in those He has saved from their sins and in those He will save from the hand of their enemies when the time comes and the Messiah sets His feet once again on the Mount of Olives. Revelation 19:11-15 is IMO linked to that time in Zechariah 12 & 14.

But the Jews must learn not to place their faith in the IDF, nor in the allegiance of any nation (including the USA). Nor should the USA place their faith in the US's military might if they switch sides when the time comes. Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of Lords, and this war against Jews in general and against Israel is unjust and evil, and based on putting evil for good and good for evil, darkness and lies for light and truth, and truth and light for lies and darkness.

And that's the point almost all humans are missing today.

[Athanasius]

Chapter and verses divisions were only added to the scriptures in 1227 AD.

Stephen Langton first added chapter divisions in ~1227 into the Vulgate. Verse divisions, however, didn't come along until ~1551 when Robert Stephanus introduced them into his Greek and Latin editions of the New Testament. Even then, it wasn't until ~1560 that both made their way into the Geneva Bible, and it was Mordecai Nathan who added verses to the "Old Testament" in ~1448 (I'm not sure about chapters).

Anyway, I'm even less "end timesy" than Fenris.

[Fenris]

Stephen Langton first added chapter divisions in ~1227 into the Vulgate.

And in many instances, so awkwardly placed.

Anyway, I'm even less "end timesy" than Fenris.

Sometimes it is fun to let the imagination roam.

[Fenris]

But the Jews must learn not to place their faith in the IDF

I mean, God always controls the outcome. But we still have to do our part.

and this war against Jews in general and against Israel is unjust and evil, and based on putting evil for good and good for evil, darkness and lies for light and truth, and truth and light for lies and darkness.

And that's the point almost all humans are missing today.

Agree 100%

[Athanasius]

Stephen Langton first added chapter divisions in ~1227 into the Vulgate.

And in many instances, so awkwardly placed.

Anyway, I'm even less "end timesy" than Fenris.

Sometimes it is fun to let the imagination roam.

Apparently, he decided upon the placement while riding horseback. Soooooo maybe not necessarily the best time to be doing something so important.

[Fenris]

Apparently, he decided upon the placement while riding horseback. Soooooo maybe not necessarily the best time to be doing something so important.

Is that the medieval equivalent of texting while driving?

[Athanasius]

Apparently, he decided upon the placement while riding horseback. Soooooo maybe not necessarily the best time to be doing something so important.

Is that the medieval equivalent of texting while driving?

I think it is!

[Fenris]

Germany has placed an arms embargo on Israel.

[Sojourner]

Germany has placed an arms embargo on Israel.

Increasing pressure from the international community is causing even the UK to consider joining the embargo. As long as the US remains a supplier, Israel will be alright. The relentless campaign against Hamas and other enemies of Israel has led many to forget the vicious assault on 10/7 that initiated the current conflict in the first place. (Which would be repeated if Hamas were given the chance). The collateral damage sustained by the Palestinians is regrettable, but that's a far cry from the deliberate targeting of civilians routinely perpetrated by Hamas--whom the Palestinians voted into power.

[Fenris]

Australia is recognizing a Palestinian state.

[Fenris]

Increasing pressure from the international community is causing even the UK to consider joining the embargo.

Back to Zechariah 12:3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.

Who remains supporting Israel right now? America, Argentina, maybe Taiwan? Anyone else?

The collateral damage sustained by the Palestinians is regrettable

46% of all the humanitarian aid in the world right now is being sent to Gaza. Not because the suffering in Gaza is so great; for just one example, there are 15 million refugees in the Sudan, and 25 million people are starving. This is an order of magnitude larger than what's going in in Gaza.

So why doesn't anyone care?