The Messiah

[journeyman]

You're describing a specific occasion that happened while he was on earth nearly two thousand years ago. According to the gospel, he was standing in a room, surrounded by men, audibly responding to certain questions, and being slapped in the face.

I'm not asking what he did in 30 AD. This entire thread, I am asking what his activity in heaven has consisted of between 30 AD and now. Is he sitting on a throne? Is he writing in a book? Is he sending angels places? Is he talking to pastors, prophets, and saints? What is he doing? What action is he undertaking?
Is he writing it down? Is he conversing with someone? I'm asking for something more specific than an abstract concept like "forgiveness". What hands-on activity is he doing?

He's transforming believers into his image. Were you mever taught this?

This spirit is invisible, inaudible, intangible, and only known through subjective internal experiences, so this does not answer my question of what his activity is, nor does it answer how his activity is seen.

Well, he certainly is invisible to you, but I see him clearly,

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. Isa.11:9

The problem isn't that his holy mountain doesn't exist. The problem is, you're not in it.

[agnostic]

He's transforming believers into his image.

I don't see any such "transformation" taking place. I mean this in two ways.

One, I see people changing themselves, through life circumstances, through influence from family or friends, and through deliberate self-reflection -- when the changes that happen to people's personalities can be consistently traced to tangible life experiences, I don't see a theological necessity to attribute those changes to a supernatural cause.

Two, I see Christians with mutually exclusive ethics each claiming to be "transformed" into the image of Christ. When there are Christians claiming to be sanctified into an increasingly "Christlike" personality, yet have diametrically opposed concepts of morality (one pro-death penalty, the other against; one in favor of social welfare, the other against food stamps; one a socialist liberal, the other a fascistic conservative), it undercuts the validity of their claims. And when asked, each of them is just as likely to say "that person isn't a true Christian, I know because I have the spirit in me." When the people all claiming to be "transformed" can't even agree on what they're being transformed into, why shouldn't someone have doubts?

Well, he certainly is invisible to you, but I see him clearly,

Joseph Smith and his cohort saw the golden plates. Thousands of people saw Mary at Cova da Iria. And thousands of Muhammad's followers saw the moon split in half. And these were things groups witnessed. When the thing a person claims to "see" is entirely internal and subjective, something no one else can see to verify, that's not enough to take them at their word.

So, y central, core question remains unanswered: what has the messiah been doing for two thousand years?

In the gospels, he walked around Galilee and Judea, he talked to people, he debated theology, he healed the sick, he paid his taxes, he washed feet, he raised the dead, he prayed to God, he taught about the Torah, he interpreted the prophets, he fished on a boat, he walked on water... and on and on.

Kings sign papers, delegate to servants, meet dignitaries, put forth public declarations, pass laws, and coordinate the execution of their will. What activities has the King of kings been undertaking for two millennia? You've described what people on earth have been doing, but given nothing about what Jesus himself is doing. The closest we got is claiming he "endures", but when asked to elaborate, you wouldn't or couldn't. Vague one-sentence replies with an out-of-context Bible verse are not answers.

[journeyman]

I don't see any such "transformation" taking place. I mean this in two ways.

One, I see people changing themselves, through life circumstances, through influence from family or friends, and through deliberate self-reflection -- when the changes that happen to people's personalities can be consistently traced to tangible life experiences, I don't see a theological necessity to attribute those changes to a supernatural cause.

Of course our Lord works through experience and you're free to believe everyone (except for God) has the ability to transform lives.

Two, I see Christians with mutually exclusive ethics each claiming to be "transformed" into the image of Christ. When there are Christians claiming to be sanctified into an increasingly "Christlike" personality, yet have diametrically opposed concepts of morality (one pro-death penalty, the other against; one in favor of social welfare, the other against food stamps; one a socialist liberal, the other a fascistic conservative), it undercuts the validity of their claims. And when asked, each of them is just as likely to say "that person isn't a true Christian, I know because I have the spirit in me." When the people all claiming to be "transformed" can't even agree on what they're being transformed into, why shouldn't someone have doubts?

It's encumbent upon a doubter to go to the source of a matter for himself. That will clear up doctrinal differences for that doubter. As far as imposing on oneself the task of determining who is or isn't Christian, that burden will happily disappear as one walks with Christ.

Joseph Smith and his cohort saw the golden plates. Thousands of people saw Mary at Cova da Iria. And thousands of Muhammad's followers saw the moon split in half. And these were things groups witnessed. When the thing a person claims to "see" is entirely internal and subjective, something no one else can see to verify, that's not enough to take them at their word.

So, y central, core question remains unanswered: what has the messiah been doing for two thousand years?

And again, it remains unanswered for you. And again, you're free to go to John Smith, or thousands of Muslims, or anyone (except God) to remain in doubt.

In the gospels, he walked around Galilee and Judea, he talked to people, he debated theology, he healed the sick, he paid his taxes, he washed feet, he raised the dead, he prayed to God, he taught about the Torah, he interpreted the prophets, he fished on a boat, he walked on water... and on and on.

Kings sign papers, delegate to servants, meet dignitaries, put forth public declarations, pass laws, and coordinate the execution of their will. What activities has the King of kings been undertaking for two millennia? You've described what people on earth have been doing, but given nothing about what Jesus himself is doing. The closest we got is claiming he "endures", but when asked to elaborate, you wouldn't or couldn't. Vague one-sentence replies with an out-of-context Bible verse are not answers.

I've described what Jesus is doing in people who have our Lord's Spirit. How he endured the sins of mankind and continues to do so is key to understanding the gospel. I thought I explained it quite well, but apparently you didn't understand it. Just so that I understand correctly, what were taught about Christ's sacrifice? From your former belief as a Christian, why are sins forgiven by his sacrifice?

[agnostic]

Refusing to answer my questions while insisting I answer yours is not something a person does in good faith.

[journeyman]

Refusing to answer my questions while insisting I answer yours is not something a person does in good faith.

A person who seeks God in good faith will find him.

[journeyman]

Never in history was Gods love toward mankind displayed more perfectly than when our sweet Lord Jesus showed how he continued loving people who abused and murdered hiim.
It's stunning how our Creator forgave the sins committed against him, instead of passing judgement on people who were hurting him.
Thank you great God.

[journeyman]

The Messiah said,

if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own? Lk.16:12

And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. Mk.12:1

Everything we have belongs to God.

[journeyman]

And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, “The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, Exo.34:6

Consider the vile way our Lord Jesus was treated.

No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known. Jn.1:18

[journeyman]

And with him they crucify two thieves Mk.15:27

he was numbered with the transgressors; Isa.53:12

Woe unto them that call evil good...that put darkness for light...Isa.5:20

For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself... Heb.12:3

[RabbiKnife]

I must confess my obtusivity.

I've read this entire thread, and I have absolutely no idea what the topic of the blather is.

Is there some life lesson I'm supposed to be learning, and if so, what is it, and if so, what principle taught in Scripture is supposed to inform me as to the lesson?

"And Judas went out and hanged himself...  Matthew 27:5
"Go, and do thou likewise..."Luke 10:37b
"That thou doest, do quickly."   John 13:27a

Citing to some random, isolated, non-contextualized passage of Scripture is not very edifying, and is often confusing, at least to me.

[journeyman]

I must confess my obtusivity.

I've read this entire thread, and I have absolutely no idea what the topic of the blather is.

The blather is what the Messiah has done for us and continues to do in us.

Is there some life lesson I'm supposed to be learning, and if so, what is it, and if so, what principle taught in Scripture is supposed to inform me as to the lesson?

One life lesson is, the Messiah turned the other cheek to those who spit on him and worse and if we follow him, we will suffer to some degree.  1Pet.3:17-18, 4:12-14, 2Tim.3:12 and many more  confirm it.

"And Judas went out and hanged himself...  Matthew 27:5
"Go, and do thou likewise..."Luke 10:37b
"That thou doest, do quickly."   John 13:27a

Citing to some random, isolated, non-contextualized passage of Scripture is not very edifying, and is often confusing, at least to me.

There's nothing difficult about meditating on how sinners called good evil (good being the Messiah), being unjustly counted a sinner,

this man has done nothing wrong Lk.23:41 This guy had it right.

[Fenris]

Consider the vile way our Lord Jesus was treated.

You know, this is not biblical. Jesus was, if the NT is to be believed, beloved by the masses. Sure, in the end he befell the designs of the rich and powerful. But that was his mission anyway. Why am I more familiar with your bible than you are?

[RabbiKnife]

Consider the vile way our Lord Jesus was treated.

You know, this is not biblical. Jesus was, if the NT is to be believed, beloved by the masses. Sure, in the end he befell the designs of the rich and powerful. But that was his mission anyway. Why am I more familiar with your bible than you are?

You have got to put a disclaimer at the start of your posts when you are going to do that!
Now I have to clean coffee off my monitor...

 

[journeyman]

Consider the vile way our Lord Jesus was treated.

You know, this is not biblical. Jesus was, if the NT is to be believed, beloved by the masses. Sure, in the end he befell the designs of the rich and powerful. But that was his mission anyway. Why am I more familiar with your bible than you are?

I'm sure in Israel today, the Lord is still loved by some people.

[Fenris]

I'm sure in Israel today, the Lord is still loved by some people.

Nice subject change.

You were commenting on how bad Jesus's treatment was, and I observed that according to the NT he was quite popular and loved. Your comment has nothing whatsoever to do with that.