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Author Topic: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary  (Read 7275 times)

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Reddogs

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Are we tired of the Adventist apologetic?
I wouldn't say "tired", but it's annoying that he leaves questions unanswered and runs off to start new discussion topics that will also be full of questions unanswered.

Edit to add, I said this about him in another discussion:

F: How do you keep the Sabbath?

RD: Hems and haws repeatedly, dragging things on for several weeks.

F: How do you keep the Sabbath?

RD: The way they kept it in the bible!

F: How did they keep the Sabbath in the bible?

RD: Silence.

I expect some hemming and hawing from RD in the future, followed by silence, maybe another cryptic bible verse, followed by yet more silence. Then he'll start a new discussion about the Sabbath, again completely devoid of any information
I have to moderate at one of the forums, I have a sermon to prepare, I have the lesson this Sabbath and have to get it ready for the brethren, and I have part in the worship service to prepare for. Otherwise I could focus more time, but I am also preparing to go on a trip on Sunday with my wife to the islands and will be gone for some time. I will try to respond as I can...
« Last Edit: July 31, 2026, 08:08:26 PM by Reddogs »

Reddogs

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Lets see if can give at least some clarification and edify and allow for everyone to study the text. Now we all know that Christ will come to a time when He prepares to come at the Second Coming, He will have to cut off His work of intercession for us that He is doing which Bible clearly teaches. 
Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

We are shown that all must have their case come to the judgement seat of Christ, and this is happening now.
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

It happens first on the house of God ..
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

And Jesus Christ is our Advocate and our Intercessor before God the Father.
1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Christ’s intercession is rooted in the blood He shed on the cross, where He paid the penalty for sin, and where the only mediator between God and He takes each and every case beginning with the saints or house of God. Now when Christ finishes His work as intermediary and stands up to go to earth in the Second Coming, probations is closed and we see who made the choice whether living or in the grave waiting to be raised at resurrection at the end time.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.   

When Christ comes to resurrected the faithful, with the cloud of angels at the Second Coming, probation has closed and all the saints have been counted as having made their choice and now Christ comes to redeem them and has the power to resurrect.
John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Now Jesus Christ taught two resurrections, one at the Second Coming and the other for the wicked to meet their fate after the Millennium.
John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The apostle Paul did too.
Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

So we clearly see both Jesus Christ and Paul taught two resurrections, the first being 'the resurrection of life' for the saints, the second being 'the resurrection of damnation' for the wicked.

When Jesus comes at the end of the world to collect His Saints, He gathers them together from all the parts of the earth. We see this in what Jesus told His disciples about His Second Coming:
Matthew 24:30-31
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:26-27.
26. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

When Jesus comes in the clouds at the Second Coming, He will send the angels to gather the saints to take them to heaven. And we see where Paul tells us in Thessalonians that God will not forget those who have died. It is clear that Jesus will not only take all the living saints to heaven, but He will also raise from the dead all of His chosen ones who died at His Second Coming,
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Jesus Himself comes down from heaven and raises the saints in the first resurrection and takes them to the heavenly kingdom. And the first resurrection is of the saints not the wicked as the verses make clear. The wicked will have any part in the first resurrection but have to wait for after the Millennium to come up and are then going to suffer the second death which is damnation in the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

During the Millennium, the earth will be in a state of desolation, devoid of human inhabitants as the wicked have been taken down by Christ at His appearing, and Satan will therefore be “bound” by a chain of circumstances for one thousand years with no one to tempt. And this does not change till the wicked are brought back up at 'the resurrection of damnation' for the wicked, where they meet their final end, and cease to exist in the Lake of Fire.

Here are some more text to look over... { I removed this link }
« Last Edit: August 01, 2026, 02:08:06 PM by Athanasius »

Athanasius

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Re: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2026, 12:48:42 PM »
Fenris, you were spot on.
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.

RabbiKnife

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Re: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2026, 12:52:37 PM »
Fenris, you were spot on.

Maybe that’s Prophet Phenris.
Danger, Will Robinson.  You will be assimilated, confiscated, folded, mutilated, and spindled. Do not pass go.  Turn right on red. Third star to the right and full speed 'til morning.

Athanasius

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Re: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2026, 02:08:20 PM »
Fenris, you were spot on.

Maybe that’s Prophet Phenris.

He is so brave and valid
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.

Reddogs

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Re: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2026, 05:43:44 PM »
Well study if for yourself as it has been completely distorted and the core belief of Christians taken to heaven removed, only the adversary is pleased. Look at  Revelation 20:4-6, and it shows God’s people will have 1,000 years of reigning with Christ in heaven following his Second Coming.

The Millennium is the thousand year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. At its close of the thousand years, Christ with His saints and the New Jerusalem will descend from heaven to earth. The wicked will then be brought back up in the second resurrection, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city, but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth.

Now some have put in the deception that its on earth, and claim that the saints of God will live and wander on earth for the thousand years and somehow in this view, Satan will unite them against God to fight Him at Armageddon. This however makes no sense, as why would the redeemed spend the millennium on earth, and not go to heaven following the second coming as has been a core belief of Christians from even before Christ came.

But people in the church have debated for centuries about the nature of Christ’s second coming, and somehow this idea which if called Chialism, crept in. The roots of chiliasm can be traced back to the early Christian believers who were grappling with persecution and the hope for divine intervention. This idea was particularly appealing to those who wanted it to change here on earth quickly where justice and peace would prevail under the direct rule of Christ. But this is the same idea was what confused the Jews when Christ first came as they thought He would throw off the evil yoke of the Romans and rule here on earth, but He made clear His kingdom was not of this earth. it is a heavenly kingdom and the saints will be taken up at the Second Coming to what Jesus described.

John 14:1-3
King James Version
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Athanasius

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Re: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2026, 06:08:32 PM »
I have. I'm not going to spend time pointing out the incoherencies of "Christians before Christ". Instead, I'll point out Fenris' description of behaviour seems to be on point, for here is his still unanswered reply.

There will come a point when He will finish His work as intercessor and come down at the Second Coming.
Romans 9:28
For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

At this point probation will clearly close for those on earth, the opportunity to repent and accept salvation is no longer available
So I've taken the time to carefully read over the chapter of Romans 9, and the chapter of Isaiah 10, which is what this verse is actually quoting. And neither of those chapters appear to support your contention that the opportunity to repent ever goes away. (That the verse in Isaiah 10 seems to be talking about the destruction of other nations and not Israel is a separate matter entirely. )
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.

Reddogs

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Re: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2026, 09:05:28 AM »
There will come a point when He will finish His work as intercessor and come down at the Second Coming.
Romans 9:28
For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

At this point probation will clearly close for those on earth, the opportunity to repent and accept salvation is no longer available
So I've taken the time to carefully read over the chapter of Romans 9, and the chapter of Isaiah 10, which is what this verse is actually quoting. And neither of those chapters appear to support your contention that the opportunity to repent ever goes away. (That the verse in Isaiah 10 seems to be talking about the destruction of other nations and not Israel is a separate matter entirely. )
Sorry didnt see it. Well let me give you an answer and some context to go over. We see many places the Bible where it refers to the close of probation where all cases have been decided, and the outcome can no longer be changed. God will judge you, and your case will forever be decided. This one shows the finality of it,

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

And we are clearly warned of the day in this one which shows the urgency of responding while the door of mercy is open..
2 Corinthians 6:2
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

And for those who die and go to the grave, its judgement time as it clearly shows in this one..
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

And we see all must come before the judgement seat of Christ..

Romans 14.10-12
We shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

2 Cor. 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to what he has done, whether it be good or bad.

Matthew 12.36-37
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God, so all believers must repent and be converted, not just say they are...

Acts 3.18-19
But those things, which God foretold by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he has so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 17:30-31
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent: Because he has appointed a day, So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom he has ordained; He has given assurance of this to all men, by raising him from the dead.

Romans 2:15-16
. . .Which show the work of the law written in their hearts,...In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Now we also see what happened at the Flood after Noah was done preaching, the door to the ark was shut. And it rained while the ark was still on the ground, but no other person that had listened and did heed him could enter into the ark during those seven days while it rained. And they were warned..
Genesis 6:3
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Their probation had closed for all intents and purposes, and the flood came and took all those the door was shut on, and who didnt listen away and they perished. Much like will happen at the end, the time of mercy with Christ as His Advocate and Intercessor will end. Now you said you were reading Isaiah, well look at this verse..
Isaiah 55:6-7
6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

We see the judgement of the saints as all must be judged, beginning with the house of God, which scripture shows begins before the Second Coming as the saints cannot simply go to heaven without a determination of their standing. Man is not immortal of self and doesnt go to heaven at death, and there is not any kind of judgment immediately after death. We see that it begins with the believers as the Bible speaks of an judgment for the house of God, which is Christians first. Christ stands as our advocate and puts His blood and pays the penalty of sin for each of those who truly believe and put on the robe of righteousness He offers.
We also see more text on where the Bible speaks about a Judgment Day......

Revelation 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

We see the angel proclaim that the 'everlasting gospel' message contains, the judgment, and we see what Christ says..

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

And we find much more..
1 Peter 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Now when Christ ceases His High Priestly ministry and steps out of the Heavenly Sanctuary, probation for man closes. There are so many verses on this, but they all show Christ doing the work as our High Priest as He showed in the example that Moses made in the earthly tabernacle to let people know what it entails. We see clearly see it in this verse..
Revelation 11:19
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

And here..
Revelation 15:5
5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

And what happens when probation closes...
Revelation 15:8
8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

And Christ doing the work in this temple is described in many verses...
Hebrews 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 4:14
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Hebrews 5:5
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 5:10
Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 6:20
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 7:1
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

Hebrews 7:26
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Hebrews 7:27
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Hebrews 7:28
For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Hebrews 8:1
Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Hebrews 8:3
For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Hebrews 9:7
But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

Hebrews 9:11
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

We know what is going on in this time of judgement which presided over by God the Father as the judge and the Son of God as the mediator.  Only the cases of the professed people of God are reviewed in this first judgment, as we are told “Judgment must begin at the house of God”.
1 Peter 4:17
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

We clearly see the event described in Daniel..
Daniel 7:10
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

And you see it contrast with the judgment of the wicked which is after the close of probation of the saints and they are taken up to heaven and the saints sit on that much like a jury.
1 Corinthians 6:2
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Here we see in Revelation ...
Revelation 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Now at the Great White Throne Judgement after the thousand years, the wicked will all be judged and we see where the saints come in as the jury.
Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The saints will be given judgement as the jury over all the wicked, and then they are sent to their punishment..
Revelation 20:13-15
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I can give more but look over it...





« Last Edit: August 02, 2026, 09:20:43 AM by Reddogs »

Athanasius

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Re: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2026, 10:19:10 AM »
As the wisdom goes:

All answers are responses.
But not all responses are answers.

Why the ~40-odd references instead of addressing Romans 9 and Isaiah 10 in light of your claim? Are you abandoning that claim now?
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.

Fenris

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Re: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2026, 11:47:54 AM »
I have to moderate at one of the forums, I have a sermon to prepare, I have the lesson this Sabbath and have to get it ready for the brethren, and I have part in the worship service to prepare for. Otherwise I could focus more time, but I am also preparing to go on a trip on Sunday with my wife to the islands and will be gone for some time. I will try to respond as I can...
"I have time to do lots of things, including making a long post after this one, but I'm not going to answer your question". Again.
Return to us, O Lord, that we may return to You. Renew our days as of old. -Lamentations 5:21

Fenris

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Re: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2026, 11:54:00 AM »
Sorry didnt see it. Well let me give you an answer and some context to go over. We see many places the Bible where it refers to the close of probation where all cases have been decided, and the outcome can no longer be changed. God will judge you, and your case will forever be decided. This one shows the finality of it,
I'm not going to address the NT verse, I will leave that to the Christians here, should they choose to do so.


Quote
Now we also see what happened at the Flood after Noah was done preaching, the door to the ark was shut. And it rained while the ark was still on the ground, but no other person that had listened and did heed him could enter into the ark during those seven days while it rained. And they were warned..
Genesis 6:3
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Their probation had closed for all intents and purposes, and the flood came and took all those the door was shut on, and who didnt listen away and they perished.
Yes, God punishes people. No place does God remove the opportunity for repentance permanently for everyone.


Quote
Isaiah 55:6-7
6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Which proves my point exactly, thank you.

Return to us, O Lord, that we may return to You. Renew our days as of old. -Lamentations 5:21

Athanasius

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Re: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2026, 12:04:00 PM »
I'm not sure there's anything to address, really. He's just going to keep soap boxing, and probably I should lock the thread.
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.

Fenris

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Re: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2026, 01:27:48 PM »
Make it so!
Return to us, O Lord, that we may return to You. Renew our days as of old. -Lamentations 5:21

Athanasius

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Re: The close of Probation, or when Christ finishes His work as Intermediary
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2026, 01:48:29 PM »
And thus it was done.
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.

 

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