Is free will a failed concept?

[Billy Evmur]

Man has a will but it is not free it is everywhere in scripture enslaved by sin.

I'm gonna ask (again) the question you won't address... Adam was NOT enslaved to sin, so who's will was it that he chose to transgress against God?

I have to keep answering again and again

Adam had a will of his own, he was free to choose God's will or to die. As long as he was in God's will he was FREE, free as  birdie in the sky or a fishy in the river.

Nothing could harm him in his garden of abundance and beauty .... did you know that is STILL God's will for man, for YOU . It is what we are created for. Adam's amen to all this was simply to live. The only alternative was to die.

That is no definition of freewill, it's God's will or nothing

Romans 12
My brothers I implore you therefore by the mercies of God to present your bodies as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable to God which is your spiritual worship.

Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind that you may prove what is the WILL OF GOD, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

How can you even talk about human freewill? we's supposed to be in God's will.

The only choice man has ever had is to live or die, if we live we are in God's will, if we die, dead men do not have freewill.

Do you know why you want freewill? this will shock you, prepare for a shock brother.

You don't really trust God, you don't really trust that His will is best for you.

The devil DECEIVED Eve and Adam into believing there was a 3rd choice, they could sin and not die. You and I can only imagine what a heady mixture this was, this temptation when it came. That rush of blood to the head.

It was under that deception that man sinned ... the deception that he had freewill.

We are created to do God's will. That is our life, our love, our everything.  instead of fishies flapping around on the river bank in the froes of death we are placed back into our river of delight. 

[RabbiKnife]

Is that the 47th or 48th time?

We’re not buying what you’re selling.

You’ve become boring

[Billy Evmur]

Is that the 47th or 48th time?

We’re not buying what you’re selling.

You’ve become boring

if you ask the same question you get the same answer.

[Billy Evmur]

's no such thing as human freewill

[RabbiKnife]

's no such thing as human freewill

I guess God made you type that…

[Sojourner]

's no such thing as human freewill

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. (Rev 3:20)

Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. (James 4:7)

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God (John 1:12)

"My teaching is not My own,” Jesus replied. “It comes from Him who sent Me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know whether My teaching is from God or whether I speak on My own."  (John 7:16-17)

While the called and chosen are foreknown and predestined, it's pretty clear from Scripture that free will is a factor in submitting ourselves to God through Christ.

[Slug1]

I have to keep answering again and again

Adam had a will of his own, he was free to choose God's will or to die. As long as he was in God's will he was FREE, free as  birdie in the sky or a fishy in the river.

Nothing could harm him in his garden of abundance and beauty .... did you know that is STILL God's will for man, for YOU . It is what we are created for. Adam's amen to all this was simply to live. The only alternative was to die.

That is no definition of freewill, it's God's will or nothing

Romans 12
My brothers I implore you therefore by the mercies of God to present your bodies as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable to God which is your spiritual worship.

Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind that you may prove what is the WILL OF GOD, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

How can you even talk about human freewill? we's supposed to be in God's will.

The only choice man has ever had is to live or die, if we live we are in God's will, if we die, dead men do not have freewill.

Do you know why you want freewill? this will shock you, prepare for a shock brother.

You don't really trust God, you don't really trust that His will is best for you.

The devil DECEIVED Eve and Adam into believing there was a 3rd choice, they could sin and not die. You and I can only imagine what a heady mixture this was, this temptation when it came. That rush of blood to the head.

It was under that deception that man sinned ... the deception that he had freewill.

We are created to do God's will. That is our life, our love, our everything.  instead of fishies flapping around on the river bank in the froes of death we are placed back into our river of delight. 

The only conclusion that is discerned from your answer is; it was God's will that Adam eat the fruit and Adam was obedient to God's will.

[Billy Evmur]

I have to keep answering again and again

Adam had a will of his own, he was free to choose God's will or to die. As long as he was in God's will he was FREE, free as  birdie in the sky or a fishy in the river.

Nothing could harm him in his garden of abundance and beauty .... did you know that is STILL God's will for man, for YOU . It is what we are created for. Adam's amen to all this was simply to live. The only alternative was to die.

That is no definition of freewill, it's God's will or nothing

Romans 12
My brothers I implore you therefore by the mercies of God to present your bodies as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable to God which is your spiritual worship.

Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind that you may prove what is the WILL OF GOD, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

How can you even talk about human freewill? we's supposed to be in God's will.

The only choice man has ever had is to live or die, if we live we are in God's will, if we die, dead men do not have freewill.

Do you know why you want freewill? this will shock you, prepare for a shock brother.

You don't really trust God, you don't really trust that His will is best for you.

The devil DECEIVED Eve and Adam into believing there was a 3rd choice, they could sin and not die. You and I can only imagine what a heady mixture this was, this temptation when it came. That rush of blood to the head.

It was under that deception that man sinned ... the deception that he had freewill.

We are created to do God's will. That is our life, our love, our everything.  instead of fishies flapping around on the river bank in the froes of death we are placed back into our river of delight. 

The only conclusion that is discerned from your answer is; it was God's will that Adam eat the fruit and Adam was obedient to God's will.

that makes zero sense. God forbade the partaking of the fruit of that tree.

[IMINXTC]

OP does not understand what freewill is.

[Slug1]

that makes zero sense. God forbade the partaking of the fruit of that tree.

What doesn't make sense is saying Adam had no will to draw from. Yet he made the choice to eat what was forbidden to eat. The will to chose came from somewhere.

a) You say it can't be Adam making the choice because he has no free will to transgress against what is forbidden.
b) You say, based on your response, that God forbid him to eat the fruit, thus it was not God's will that Adam eat the fruit (I fully agree with you on this point)

c) However, a "will" is active, a will that caused (enabled) a SINLESS Adam to defy God's will = don't ever eat that fruit. Thus, due to defying (transgressing) God's will, Adam became a sinner = spiritually died and all of mankind since, is born of sin.
What "will" enabled Adam to defy God's will?

If not a "will," what power enabled Adam to make a choice to defy God's will?

[Billy Evmur]

that makes zero sense. God forbade the partaking of the fruit of that tree.

What doesn't make sense is saying Adam had no will to draw from. Yet he made the choice to eat what was forbidden to eat. The will to chose came from somewhere.

a) You say it can't be Adam making the choice because he has no free will to transgress against what is forbidden.
b) You say, based on your response, that God forbid him to eat the fruit, thus it was not God's will that Adam eat the fruit (I fully agree with you on this point)

c) However, a "will" is active, a will that caused (enabled) a SINLESS Adam to defy God's will = don't ever eat that fruit. Thus, due to defying (transgressing) God's will, Adam became a sinner = spiritually died and all of mankind since, is born of sin.
What "will" enabled Adam to defy God's will?

If not a "will," what power enabled Adam to make a choice to defy God's will?

Romans 6-vs16
Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin which leads to death or of righteousness.

what happened to Adam when he obeyed Satan's voice?

He had a will ... but it was not free, we are servants.
We cannot serve 2 masters but we will serve ... where do you read freewill in any of that?

Our perfect freedom is finding God's will for our lives, He has created us for a purpose. Anything short of God's will for our lives will disappoint.

[Slug1]

Romans 6-vs16
Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin which leads to death or of righteousness.

what happened to Adam when he obeyed Satan's voice?

He had a will ... but it was not free, we are servants.

Again, you are pointing out that man has the will to choose, and at the same time, try to convince others this will is not free. Here is why I say this, a will has to come from somewhere. We choose to be a slave, we are not made to be a slave, we are not forced to be a slave. God didn't will Adam to eat the fruit, satan didn't will Adam to eat the fruit. God desires that all of mankind be saved, satan desires that none of mankind be saved.

Yet, some of mankind choose to be slaves to God (and be righteous), some choose to be slaves to satan (and remain dead in sin).

We cannot serve 2 masters but we will serve ... where do you read freewill in any of that?

Where? In the verse!!


Why, because the verse is pointed out that "...you..." yield yourself to either God or satan. This single verse reveals that a choice is being made. God isn't forcing (willing) either direction of choice. God doesn't make a man choose Him, satan doesn't make a man choose him and it's clear that God doesn't make any of mankind choose satan. We choose who to follow per the verse, ..." if you yield yourselves..." A choice is being made, freely. Why freely, I repeat myself; because neither God nor satan forces mankind to make the choice, we/you make the choice.

(A)Our perfect freedom is finding God's will for our lives, He has (B)created us for a purpose. Anything short of God's will for our lives will disappoint.

(A) "Our perfect freedom" again, you are literally pointing out our freedom of choice. Remember, Adam didn't "find" God's will for him, he was literally instructed (as all of mankind is through God's Word). But in Adam's case, God spoke to him directly as if you and I would speak together. In Adam's case, God MADE His will clearly known when Adam was ordered not to eat the fruit.


(B) Was Adam's "purpose" to eat of the fruit?? I must ask because this is the only conclusion available based on your words... "He has created us FOR a purpose."

You can't say, "He has created us for a purpose," and when Adam ate the fruit, THEN say, that was not his purpose.

[Billy Evmur]

Romans 6-vs16
Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin which leads to death or of righteousness.

what happened to Adam when he obeyed Satan's voice?

He had a will ... but it was not free, we are servants.

Again, you are pointing out that man has the will to choose, and at the same time, try to convince others this will is not free. Here is why I say this, a will has to come from somewhere. We choose to be a slave, we are not made to be a slave, we are not forced to be a slave. God didn't will Adam to eat the fruit, satan didn't will Adam to eat the fruit. God desires that all of mankind be saved, satan desires that none of mankind be saved.

Yet, some of mankind choose to be slaves to God (and be righteous), some choose to be slaves to satan (and remain dead in sin).

We cannot serve 2 masters but we will serve ... where do you read freewill in any of that?

Where? In the verse!!


Why, because the verse is pointed out that "...you..." yield yourself to either God or satan. This single verse reveals that a choice is being made. God isn't forcing (willing) either direction of choice. God doesn't make a man choose Him, satan doesn't make a man choose him and it's clear that God doesn't make any of mankind choose satan. We choose who to follow per the verse, ..." if you yield yourselves..." A choice is being made, freely. Why freely, I repeat myself; because neither God nor satan forces mankind to make the choice, we/you make the choice.

(A)Our perfect freedom is finding God's will for our lives, He has (B)created us for a purpose. Anything short of God's will for our lives will disappoint.

(A) "Our perfect freedom" again, you are literally pointing out our freedom of choice. Remember, Adam didn't "find" God's will for him, he was literally instructed (as all of mankind is through God's Word). But in Adam's case, God spoke to him directly as if you and I would speak together. In Adam's case, God MADE His will clearly known when Adam was ordered not to eat the fruit.


(B) Was Adam's "purpose" to eat of the fruit?? I must ask because this is the only conclusion available based on your words... "He has created us FOR a purpose."

You can't say, "He has created us for a purpose," and when Adam ate the fruit, THEN say, that was not his purpose.

Here is where your argument fails.

The choice is God's choice that He may or may not give. Adam was given the choice, we are not unless God gives it to us. Adam did not have to die, we must die. Adam was not bound to sin, we are.

The Red Indians did not receive the gospel until the Europeans arrived.

And there were folks present at our Lord's meetings of whom He said God had closed their eyes and stopped up their ears and hardened their hearts lest at any time they might see with their eyes and hear with their ears and turn to Him and He heal them.

God hides Himself and that is awesome.

I do not believe as the majority of Evangelicalism do that people are doomed to hell when they have never heard the gospel and so have not been given the opportunity to "choose" or "decide" according to the Arminian theology.

I was listening to a well respected preacher recently saying that the final resurrection is just a formality for in his understanding having failed the rapture they had already been judged .... that is the common belief even if it is not stated in such stark terms.

I beg to disagree ... they will, the bible says, be judged and judged with equity.

I cannot look into people's souls nor do I have the wisdom to judge or the desire. What I do is trust God implicitly that He will do right.

There will not I am certain be billions of goats on that day and just a few straggley sheep

[Athanasius]

Here is where your argument fails.

The choice is God's choice that He may or may not give. Adam was given the choice, we are not unless God gives it to us. Adam did not have to die, we must die. Adam was not bound to sin, we are.

You're pointing out your own failure. Read below:

Adam had a will of his own, he was free to choose God's will or to die. As long as he was in God's will he was FREE, free as birdie in the sky or a fishy in the river.

Everyone is free unless they aren't unless they are unless they aren't unless they are unless they aren't. It's consistent nonsense, like the UK Supreme Court.

[Billy Evmur]

Here is where your argument fails.

The choice is God's choice that He may or may not give. Adam was given the choice, we are not unless God gives it to us. Adam did not have to die, we must die. Adam was not bound to sin, we are.

You're pointing out your own failure. Read below:

Adam had a will of his own, he was free to choose God's will or to die. As long as he was in God's will he was FREE, free as birdie in the sky or a fishy in the river.

Everyone is free unless they aren't unless they are unless they aren't unless they are unless they aren't. It's consistent nonsense, like the UK Supreme Court.

Pardon me? are you saying you have never sinned? are not a sinner? saved by Grace alone?

Do you not have to work in order to stay alive? perhaps happily you are retired.

Work totally dominates our lives. This was the consequence of being chucked out of the garden.

Yes you are right, I have sinned and I was awful

What a wonderful change in my life has been wrought
since Jesus came into my heart
there's a light in my soul which for long I had sought
since Jesus came into my heart

Since Jesus came into my heart
since Jesus came into my heart
floods of joy o'er my soul
like the sea billows roll
since Jesus came into my heart.