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Author Topic: Is free will a failed concept?  (Read 61534 times)

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Billy Evmur

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #225 on: April 15, 2025, 09:59:14 AM »
No rational believer believe that we chose Jesus.  We all admit that Jesus chose us.  What does that have to do with free will. 

Jesus chose Judas, too, but we see how that worked out.

Why do you live in such a mentally constipated world?

Do you not understand that sovereign election and free moral agency are completely compatible without man being the source of salvation or of God being the source of evil?

Your rigid refusal to look outside the box of what you have been told must be eliminates from your conversation the possibilities of what can be, and which is -- mentally, philosophically, and spiritually -- true and satisfying.

God is sovereign.  God chose.  God made man with free moral agency.  Because of God's foreknowledge, He is not limited to what must be but is free to see what could be.

Geez, it's listening to conversations like this that have pushed many of my friends and colleagues completely away from the Gospel.

"'Cause I said so" is not an answer.
Because the BIBLE says so, because the BIBLE does not credit human freewill with any involvement in our salvation.

yeh people do not like bible truth, they didn't like Jesus when He told them you are not My sheep

do you understand it is the flesh that rises up against the truth, gets angry.

If man had freewill there would never have needed for Jesus to come and die for us, do you understand that? God could just appeal to man and man could make the right decision ... The Jews have PROVED that it doesn't work.

Jesus died to set us free ... but you say you are already free.

Do you know the doctrine of human freewill came into the Protestant church after the Reformation? did you know that Luther' s last debate with the Catholics was on the question of human freewill? it is a Catholic doctrine.

Discussing doctrine does not turn anyone away from the Lord.
I was wonderfully saved through reading T. L. Osborn's magazine Faith Digest which I picked up off the pavement. It carried the Banner "God loves YOU He wants to bless YOU"

Billy Evmur

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #226 on: April 15, 2025, 10:04:23 AM »
No rational believer believe that we chose Jesus.  We all admit that Jesus chose us.  What does that have to do with free will. 

Jesus chose Judas, too, but we see how that worked out.

Why do you live in such a mentally constipated world?

Do you not understand that sovereign election and free moral agency are completely compatible without man being the source of salvation or of God being the source of evil?

Your rigid refusal to look outside the box of what you have been told must be eliminates from your conversation the possibilities of what can be, and which is -- mentally, philosophically, and spiritually -- true and satisfying.

God is sovereign.  God chose.  God made man with free moral agency.  Because of God's foreknowledge, He is not limited to what must be but is free to see what could be.

Geez, it's listening to conversations like this that have pushed many of my friends and colleagues completely away from the Gospel.

"'Cause I said so" is not an answer.
The idea that we have freewill is the devil's debate zone

God says "thou shalt not lest ye die" we do not have freewill in the matter, as soon as you stop to consider a temptation, the devil will come in and say "you won't die" we start to imagine we can get away with sin.

then BANG you are doing it
I was wonderfully saved through reading T. L. Osborn's magazine Faith Digest which I picked up off the pavement. It carried the Banner "God loves YOU He wants to bless YOU"

Billy Evmur

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #227 on: April 15, 2025, 10:43:06 AM »
Charles Spurgeon on human freewill

www.azquotes.com/author/13978-Charles_Spurgeon/tag/free-will

Happily I am in very good company if in the minority
I was wonderfully saved through reading T. L. Osborn's magazine Faith Digest which I picked up off the pavement. It carried the Banner "God loves YOU He wants to bless YOU"

RabbiKnife

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #228 on: April 15, 2025, 01:16:14 PM »
No rational believer believe that we chose Jesus.  We all admit that Jesus chose us.  What does that have to do with free will. 

Jesus chose Judas, too, but we see how that worked out.

Why do you live in such a mentally constipated world?

Do you not understand that sovereign election and free moral agency are completely compatible without man being the source of salvation or of God being the source of evil?

Your rigid refusal to look outside the box of what you have been told must be eliminates from your conversation the possibilities of what can be, and which is -- mentally, philosophically, and spiritually -- true and satisfying.

God is sovereign.  God chose.  God made man with free moral agency.  Because of God's foreknowledge, He is not limited to what must be but is free to see what could be.

Geez, it's listening to conversations like this that have pushed many of my friends and colleagues completely away from the Gospel.

"'Cause I said so" is not an answer.
The idea that we have freewill is the devil's debate zone

God says "thou shalt not lest ye die" we do not have freewill in the matter, as soon as you stop to consider a temptation, the devil will come in and say "you won't die" we start to imagine we can get away with sin.

then BANG you are doing it

Stating a false narrative 37 times doesn't make it any more true.

You keep making God the author of sin.
Danger, Will Robinson.  You will be assimilated, confiscated, folded, mutilated, and spindled. Do not pass go.  Turn right on red. Third star to the right and full speed 'til morning.

RabbiKnife

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #229 on: April 15, 2025, 01:17:49 PM »
Charles Spurgeon on human freewill

www.azquotes.com/author/13978-Charles_Spurgeon/tag/free-will

Happily I am in very good company if in the minority

Do you agree that God created the non-elect to fuel the fires of hell?
Danger, Will Robinson.  You will be assimilated, confiscated, folded, mutilated, and spindled. Do not pass go.  Turn right on red. Third star to the right and full speed 'til morning.

Billy Evmur

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #230 on: April 15, 2025, 02:35:37 PM »
Charles Spurgeon on human freewill

www.azquotes.com/author/13978-Charles_Spurgeon/tag/free-will

Happily I am in very good company if in the minority

Do you agree that God created the non-elect to fuel the fires of hell?
No I do not though I do love Spurgeon and have consumed many volumes of his work. I have never been led to study Calvin I find his doctrine and understanding of predestination and limited atonement abhorrent and I understand the vexation many people feel, I believe he was simply wrong and should not be regarded as a villain.

Arminius when truly considered is 10, 000 times worse with his idea that man can and must decide and choose of his own freewill.

Of course his theology was formed as an angry response to Calvin.

It means that BILLIONS of human souls must perish in hell because the church never reached them with an Holy Ghost empowered gospel. They never heard of Christ's salvation and now they must perish. That is the freewill theology.

I believe in a BILLIONfold wider mercy which neither Calvin or Spurgeon would have suffered ... and which the majority of Evangelicals today will not suffer. It is only possible in the Sovereign Grace theology.

That's another subject.

Peace.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2025, 02:38:05 PM by Billy Evmur »
I was wonderfully saved through reading T. L. Osborn's magazine Faith Digest which I picked up off the pavement. It carried the Banner "God loves YOU He wants to bless YOU"

Billy Evmur

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #231 on: April 15, 2025, 02:44:01 PM »
No rational believer believe that we chose Jesus.  We all admit that Jesus chose us.  What does that have to do with free will. 

Jesus chose Judas, too, but we see how that worked out.

Why do you live in such a mentally constipated world?

Do you not understand that sovereign election and free moral agency are completely compatible without man being the source of salvation or of God being the source of evil?

Your rigid refusal to look outside the box of what you have been told must be eliminates from your conversation the possibilities of what can be, and which is -- mentally, philosophically, and spiritually -- true and satisfying.

God is sovereign.  God chose.  God made man with free moral agency.  Because of God's foreknowledge, He is not limited to what must be but is free to see what could be.

Geez, it's listening to conversations like this that have pushed many of my friends and colleagues completely away from the Gospel.

"'Cause I said so" is not an answer.
The idea that we have freewill is the devil's debate zone

God says "thou shalt not lest ye die" we do not have freewill in the matter, as soon as you stop to consider a temptation, the devil will come in and say "you won't die" we start to imagine we can get away with sin.

then BANG you are doing it

Stating a false narrative 37 times doesn't make it any more true.

You keep making God the author of sin.
Never

Freewill theology blames God for if God gave us freewill to sin then He cannot blame us if we use this gift [no-where mentioned in scripture] to rebel against Him.

God forbade sin. The very fact that He forbade it destroys the idea that we have freewill.

If you give your kids freewill and they go and smash up the neighbourhood then YOU are responsible.
I was wonderfully saved through reading T. L. Osborn's magazine Faith Digest which I picked up off the pavement. It carried the Banner "God loves YOU He wants to bless YOU"

Billy Evmur

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #232 on: April 15, 2025, 02:49:27 PM »
No rational believer believe that we chose Jesus.  We all admit that Jesus chose us.  What does that have to do with free will. 

Jesus chose Judas, too, but we see how that worked out.

Why do you live in such a mentally constipated world?

Do you not understand that sovereign election and free moral agency are completely compatible without man being the source of salvation or of God being the source of evil?

Your rigid refusal to look outside the box of what you have been told must be eliminates from your conversation the possibilities of what can be, and which is -- mentally, philosophically, and spiritually -- true and satisfying.

God is sovereign.  God chose.  God made man with free moral agency.  Because of God's foreknowledge, He is not limited to what must be but is free to see what could be.

Geez, it's listening to conversations like this that have pushed many of my friends and colleagues completely away from the Gospel.

"'Cause I said so" is not an answer.
The idea that we have freewill is the devil's debate zone

God says "thou shalt not lest ye die" we do not have freewill in the matter, as soon as you stop to consider a temptation, the devil will come in and say "you won't die" we start to imagine we can get away with sin.

then BANG you are doing it

Stating a false narrative 37 times doesn't make it any more true.

You keep making God the author of sin.
That's what the evolutionists do in every science and nature programme they hammer it into peoples head until everyone believes it and anyone who disagrees is mocked and despised.

It is called brainwashing and is the devil. He has done the same thing in the church with the false doctrine of human freewill.
I was wonderfully saved through reading T. L. Osborn's magazine Faith Digest which I picked up off the pavement. It carried the Banner "God loves YOU He wants to bless YOU"

RabbiKnife

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #233 on: April 15, 2025, 06:06:55 PM »
Charles Spurgeon on human freewill

www.azquotes.com/author/13978-Charles_Spurgeon/tag/free-will

Happily I am in very good company if in the minority

Do you agree that God created the non-elect to fuel the fires of hell?
No I do not though I do love Spurgeon and have consumed many volumes of his work. I have never been led to study Calvin I find his doctrine and understanding of predestination and limited atonement abhorrent and I understand the vexation many people feel, I believe he was simply wrong and should not be regarded as a villain.

Arminius when truly considered is 10, 000 times worse with his idea that man can and must decide and choose of his own freewill.

Of course his theology was formed as an angry response to Calvin.

It means that BILLIONS of human souls must perish in hell because the church never reached them with an Holy Ghost empowered gospel. They never heard of Christ's salvation and now they must perish. That is the freewill theology.

I believe in a BILLIONfold wider mercy which neither Calvin or Spurgeon would have suffered ... and which the majority of Evangelicals today will not suffer. It is only possible in the Sovereign Grace theology.

That's another subject.

Peace.

Well

-
at least you finally got there
Danger, Will Robinson.  You will be assimilated, confiscated, folded, mutilated, and spindled. Do not pass go.  Turn right on red. Third star to the right and full speed 'til morning.

RabbiKnife

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #234 on: April 15, 2025, 06:08:17 PM »
And it appears you know little of Arminius
Danger, Will Robinson.  You will be assimilated, confiscated, folded, mutilated, and spindled. Do not pass go.  Turn right on red. Third star to the right and full speed 'til morning.

teddyv

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #235 on: April 15, 2025, 10:41:10 PM »
That's what the evolutionists do in every science and nature programme they hammer it into peoples head until everyone believes it and anyone who disagrees is mocked and despised.
They (we) don't do that at all, but don't let that stand in the way of being wrong in that analogy as well.
“The story so far: in the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.” Douglas Adams

IMINXTC

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #236 on: April 16, 2025, 08:07:33 AM »
Charles Spurgeon on human freewill

www.azquotes.com/author/13978-Charles_Spurgeon/tag/free-will

Happily I am in very good company if in the minority

Many post-Apostolic and church-age theologians are the false teachers Jesus warned about. The Bible is sufficient for doctrine and warns against destructive sectarianisn.

Citing theologians and Protestant heroes for reproof cannot  approach the "contextual" dividing of the Scriptures.
"The only wisdom we can hope to acquire / Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless." T.S. Eliot 1940

Slug1

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #237 on: April 16, 2025, 11:59:15 PM »

God forbade sin. The very fact that He forbade it destroys the idea that we have freewill.

If you give your kids freewill and they go and smash up the neighbourhood then YOU are responsible.

If mankind has no will to transgress against God, how is man able to transgress at all?

--Slug1-out

~In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper which is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help.~

Billy Evmur

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #238 on: April 17, 2025, 08:18:36 PM »

God forbade sin. The very fact that He forbade it destroys the idea that we have freewill.

If you give your kids freewill and they go and smash up the neighbourhood then YOU are responsible.

If mankind has no will to transgress against God, how is man able to transgress at all?

Man has a will but it is not free it is everywhere in scripture enslaved by sin.
I was wonderfully saved through reading T. L. Osborn's magazine Faith Digest which I picked up off the pavement. It carried the Banner "God loves YOU He wants to bless YOU"

Slug1

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Re: Is free will a failed concept?
« Reply #239 on: April 17, 2025, 09:00:24 PM »
Man has a will but it is not free it is everywhere in scripture enslaved by sin.

I'm gonna ask (again) the question you won't address... Adam was NOT enslaved to sin, so who's will was it that he chose to transgress against God?
--Slug1-out

~In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper which is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help.~

 

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