Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'

[RabbiKnife]

Who is “we” and who is letting what sin in what door?

I just need to know how much guilt I should feel over what and who I’m supposed to berate and yell at…

I want to do it right, you know??

[Rebecca]

We  meaning Churches in general. Sin into the doors of the churches.
Sin in the doors of the churches could also be allowing sin in the hearts of pew sitters.
It might be nice to have a conversation, I dont believe i am a bad guy. Not good at writing not real educated what did i say to set you so against me? I doubt i am reading you wrong.

[DavidGYoung]

In response to this, from the third post:

"It is categorically impossible to believe salvation through faith in Jesus in the absence of belief in the authority of a divinely authored and inspired text and you cannot have sufficient revelation of the person of Jesus and salvation through faith without divinely originated communication."

Seriously?
What on earth do you think was going on in the first generation of Christian converts, before even the Pauline epistles were written? They themselves predate the Gospels and are long before the idea of adopting a canon by the name of the New Testament.

For gentile converts, neither the Tanakh nor the Septuagint would have been regarded as a divine authority before conversion, regardless of what beliefs they may have adopted afterwards.

There are people who believe the central tenet of Christianity without believing in the inspiration of the Bible, some of whom are converts. That is a fact, whether you like it or not. My original question is about those people.

[Rebecca]

Does a new convert need to know what the Scriptures ? No.  I also believe a new convert would what to know about what he is believing in. Who is this Jesus what is/was He about? Our Christianity goes beyond/deeper then initial feel good.

[Slug1]

Imagine that a person has just converted to Christianity. They believe the central tenet of Christianity, about salvation through faith in Jesus, but they do not remotely believe the Bible to be divinely authored or inspired.

Would you attempt to persuade this Christian otherwise? If so, what lines of argument would you use?

I would begin with where/what parts of God's Word the person says is/are not inspired. If they cannot express specifics, I would begin with prophecy revealed in the Old Testament that has come to pass (completely) and even partially has come to pass.

[DavidGYoung]

If you are trying to persuade someone who does not believe that the Bible is divinely inspired that it is, I would suggest you shouldn't use loaded terms like 'God's Word' when asking them about it. It's similar to the 'When are you going to stop beating your wife?' question.

You probably won't persuade them that it contains any fulfilled prophecy, as that argument really doesn't wash unless you start with the idea that the Bible is divinely inspired in the first place, or if they know practically nothing about Biblical scholarship.

[Athanasius]

David if you want us to convince you, you don't have to create hypothetical questions.

[RabbiKnife]

If you are trying to persuade someone who does not believe that the Bible is divinely inspired that it is, I would suggest you shouldn't use loaded terms like 'God's Word' when asking them about it. It's similar to the 'When are you going to stop beating your wife?' question.

You probably won't persuade them that it contains any fulfilled prophecy, as that argument really doesn't wash unless you start with the idea that the Bible is divinely inspired in the first place, or if they know practically nothing about Biblical scholarship.

How do I prove the metaphysical by reliance on the physical?

[ProDeo]

If you are trying to persuade someone who does not believe that the Bible is divinely inspired that it is, I would suggest you shouldn't use loaded terms like 'God's Word' when asking them about it. It's similar to the 'When are you going to stop beating your wife?' question.

You probably won't persuade them that it contains any fulfilled prophecy, as that argument really doesn't wash unless you start with the idea that the Bible is divinely inspired in the first place, or if they know practically nothing about Biblical scholarship.

I think you are underestimating the work of the Holy Spirit, people (and I am just one of the many examples) who became a believer without hardly knowing the Bible, that came afterwards.

[Slug1]

If you are trying to persuade someone who does not believe that the Bible is divinely inspired that it is, I would suggest you shouldn't use loaded terms like 'God's Word' when asking them about it. It's similar to the 'When are you going to stop beating your wife?' question.

You probably won't persuade them that it contains any fulfilled prophecy, as that argument really doesn't wash unless you start with the idea that the Bible is divinely inspired in the first place, or if they know practically nothing about Biblical scholarship.

I'll have to disagree for this specific reason: if any person who doesn't believe that the Bible or God's Word is not inspired, is their unbelief due to a subjective position of belief (or lack of), or due to an objective position of belief (or lack of).

Once it can be determined how their unbelief is based on subjective or objective reasons (their position), then you will know where to begin helping them by producing evidence to correct any error.

[RabbiKnife]

Hey, Sluggo!

[waves]

[Fenris]

I'll have to disagree for this specific reason: if any person who doesn't believe that the Bible or God's Word is not inspired, is their unbelief due to a subjective position of belief (or lack of), or due to an objective position of belief (or lack of).

Once it can be determined how their unbelief is based on subjective or objective reasons (their position), then you will know where to begin helping them by producing evidence to correct any error.

As a person of faith who is not a Christian, I have to disagree with this premise. I don't think a person's belief or lack thereof is something that can be "fixed" as such. I've been here a long time and have dealt with innumerable attempts to "fix" my "unbelief".   

[Slug1]

I'll have to disagree for this specific reason: if any person who doesn't believe that the Bible or God's Word is not inspired, is their unbelief due to a subjective position of belief (or lack of), or due to an objective position of belief (or lack of).

Once it can be determined how their unbelief is based on subjective or objective reasons (their position), then you will know where to begin helping them by producing evidence to correct any error.

As a person of faith who is not a Christian, I have to disagree with this premise. I don't think a person's belief or lack thereof is something that can be "fixed" as such. I've been here a long time and have dealt with innumerable attempts to "fix" my "unbelief".   

I'll have to disagree for this specific reason: if any person who doesn't believe that the Bible or God's Word is not inspired, is their unbelief due to a subjective position of belief (or lack of), or due to an objective position of belief (or lack of).

Once it can be determined how their unbelief is based on subjective or objective reasons (their position), then you will know where to begin helping them by producing evidence to correct any error.

As a person of faith who is not a Christian, I have to disagree with this premise. I don't think a person's belief or lack thereof is something that can be "fixed" as such. I've been here a long time and have dealt with innumerable attempts to "fix" my "unbelief".   

Well, it's not about fixing at all. Learning is always objective or subjective. In my opinion, objective fact gathering and weighing of facts puts a person into a position of choice, true choice. Not based on a feeling, not based on other peoples positions/understanding but based on one's "own" position that begins to build based on the truth's they've weighed/evaluated and once a choice is made, experience through relationship, in the case for Christ, begins.

I can't fix a person, most people can't fix themselves. If they could, no need for recovery ministries and recovery of either secular or faith based means.

When it comes to Scripture, the Holy Spirit does the leading and as a person allows Him to lead, then He can also provide a "means" that will "fix."

[Fenris]

In my opinion, objective fact gathering

There are no objective facts when it comes to religious belief.

Wikipedia's definition is pretty good: A belief is a subjective attitude that a proposition is true or a state of affairs is the case.

[Athanasius]

In my opinion, objective fact gathering

There are no objective facts when it comes to religious belief.

Wikipedia's definition is pretty good: A belief is a subjective attitude that a proposition is true or a state of affairs is the case.

On what basis would one determine that a proposition is true, etc.? Possibly, "objective fact gathering"? Or is that objectively not the subjective case?