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Author Topic: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'  (Read 13732 times)

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DavidGYoung

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Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« on: August 10, 2023, 03:21:05 AM »
Imagine that a person has just converted to Christianity. They believe the central tenet of Christianity, about salvation through faith in Jesus, but they do not remotely believe the Bible to be divinely authored or inspired.

Would you attempt to persuade this Christian otherwise? If so, what lines of argument would you use?


Athanasius

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2023, 05:29:56 AM »
Why would someone become a Christian if they didn't remotely believe the Bible?
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.

RabbiKnife

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2023, 07:02:43 AM »
You can't believe A and non-A to be true at the same time with any level of integrity.

Faith is not a buffet where you pick what you want and avoid what you do not want.

It is categorically impossible to believe salvation through faith in Jesus in the absence of belief in the authority of a divinely authored and inspired text and you cannot have sufficient revelation of the person of Jesus and salvation through faith without divinely originated communication.

That said, we are not saved because of our doctrine or by out ability to comprehend or explain orthodox theology.  We are saved because, as Alistair Begg so wonderfully states it, "The Man on the Middle Cross, He said I could come."
« Last Edit: August 10, 2023, 07:40:19 AM by RabbiKnife »
Danger, Will Robinson.  You will be assimilated, confiscated, folded, mutilated, and spindled. Do not pass go.  Turn right on red. Third star to the right and full speed 'til morning.

Sojourner

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2023, 08:39:34 AM »
The Bible, particularly the NT, is the source of the Gospel message. How can a person believe a tenet of a faith when he rejects the validity of the text it is predicated on? As to persuading such a person of the truth of the Bible, there is always prophecy. When specific events transpire that were foretold centuries earlier, there can be little doubt about the divine origin of the text. Only God truly sees and foretells the future.
Standing before the Judgment Throne we will retain only two things from this life: what God gave us, and what we accomplished with it.

Fenris

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2023, 10:58:12 AM »
Why would someone become a Christian if they didn't remotely believe the Bible?
I mean I could see it happening in principle.

Secular (and invariably) left-wing Jews identify as "Jewish" although they do not (as is my understanding) believe that the bible is of divine origin. Just a book of "good messages" or whatever. What becomes amusing is that they have the ability to find "proof" for left wing causes in the bible. Any left wing cause; whatever is popular today. Abortion. Socialism. Environmentalism. God is transgender. Assisted suicide. Whatever.

DavidGYoung

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2023, 11:35:01 AM »
Many who convert to Christianity as a result of the resurrection argument are persuaded that the parts of the New Testament which are sound when viewed through a historian's lens are sufficient to demonstrate the basis of Christianity. It is quite a step to go from there to believing that anything from the 66-book to the 81-book canon of the Bible is divinely authored.

Also it is worth remembering that for the most part of Christianity's two-thousand-year history most Christians had no access to any part of the Bible and they still believed in Christianity.


Fenris

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2023, 12:00:49 PM »
It is quite a step to go from there to believing that anything from the 66-book to the 81-book canon of the Bible is divinely authored.
It might help if more people of faith actually took the time to read the bible. How many nominally religious people are biblically ignorant? Not just Christians, mind.

Rebecca

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2023, 09:47:14 AM »

Christian, but not 'Bible-believing

ox·y·mo·ron
noun
a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction

Fenris

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2023, 11:15:07 AM »

Christian, but not 'Bible-believing

ox·y·mo·ron
noun
a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction
I think it depends on how one defines "Christian".

ProDeo

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2023, 02:22:04 PM »
Imagine that a person has just converted to Christianity. They believe the central tenet of Christianity, about salvation through faith in Jesus, but they do not remotely believe the Bible to be divinely authored or inspired.

Would you attempt to persuade this Christian otherwise? If so, what lines of argument would you use?

There is only two sentences you have to believe -

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Rebecca

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2023, 02:43:56 PM »

Christian, but not 'Bible-believing

ox·y·mo·ron
noun
a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction
I think it depends on how one defines "Christian".
The word Christian gets defined in many ways. The definition which fits best, to me,  is a follower of Christ. A follower of Christ would believe

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 
Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God. 
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 
Joh 1:4  In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 
Joh 1:5  And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 

among others but that one covers a lot of ground.

Athanasius

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2023, 04:47:53 AM »
Why would someone become a Christian if they didn't remotely believe the Bible?
I mean I could see it happening in principle.

Secular (and invariably) left-wing Jews identify as "Jewish" although they do not (as is my understanding) believe that the bible is of divine origin. Just a book of "good messages" or whatever. What becomes amusing is that they have the ability to find "proof" for left wing causes in the bible. Any left wing cause; whatever is popular today. Abortion. Socialism. Environmentalism. God is transgender. Assisted suicide. Whatever.

"Christian" in a cultural sense, indeed. They wouldn't be considered actually Christian within Christianity.
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.

Rebecca

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2023, 11:24:41 AM »
Here in the USA Christians are very complacent . As a group we have zero idea of how to stand for Christ. We have hugged tolerance to the point we have no deep and real identity. We allow sin of all kinds in the door.  The stupid line " love the  sinner hate the sin" has turned to accepting sin.  We see God as  teddy bear soft & cuddly. He is the Lion of Judah. Yes He loves, He is also :
   Exo_20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.

He is also angry. 
We go around quoting Mat_7:1  Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Choosing to overlook:
Joh_7:24  Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

We seem to have forgotten warning folks about hell is very loving. Jesus spoke often about hell.

We give our children to the state . Look hard people look deep . Looking out the window i wonder when it comes where will my heart be?

Act 7:59  And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 
Act 7:60  And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Sojourner

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2023, 11:41:30 AM »
Anyone can claim to be a Christian, even if they live a life contrary to their profession of faith. Christianity is as much a relationship with God through His Christ as it is a faith, and that relationship determines the integrity of one's faith. True Christians always strive to live a moral, godly life, letting their life serve as a testimony before those around them, going the second mile to love those who may hate them. But they recognize that their most sincere attempts at righteousness cannot measure up to God's standard of holiness, and look to Jesus as the kinsman-redeemer who paid the sin price they cannot. In a violent and corrupt world in a downward spiral, His victory over death and hell give us the hope of glory, peace and righteousness in the eternal kingdom of God
Standing before the Judgment Throne we will retain only two things from this life: what God gave us, and what we accomplished with it.

Athanasius

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Re: Christian, but not 'Bible-believing'
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2023, 02:46:53 PM »
The stupid line " love the  sinner hate the sin" has turned to accepting sin.

Even before that, it was a statement that said little more than "I'm better than you".
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.

 

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