Do you know then God of Jesus?

[Sojourner]

I don't know how it lasted as long as it did. I've dealt with holier-than-thou types before, but that dude takes the prize.

Self-righteous types are the worst.

Yeah, ideally, we should humbly acknowledge our inability to measure up to God's standards of holiness on our own merits--not present ourselves as being the standard.

[Betho]

He referred to Him as the ONLY true God. (John 17:3)

The Joanne context ¹:

Jesus answered, "I have already told you, and you did not believe me. The proof is the works I do in the name of my Father. But you do not believe me because you are not my sheep. My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them from my hand, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than all. No one can snatch them from my Father's hand. The Father and I are one." Once again, the Jewish leaders picked up stones to stone him. Jesus said, "By my Father's direction, I have done many good works. For which of these works do you want to stone me?" They replied, "We are not going to stone you for any good work, but for blasphemy. You, a mere man, claim to be God!" New Transforming Version (NVT) © Mundo Cristão - All rights reserved.

If we consider the existence of an ellipsis, the omission of a term in the sentence that is easily understood after the phrase "we are one," this term must be in accordance with the basic grammatical rules of the Greek language, that is, it will be in the singular and in the neuter gender, and the word "name" is the only word in the context in question that satisfies the concordance requirements.

It will be considered that when analyzing the words of the Lord Jesus in parallel, all other theologies are secondary; the Pauline theology should complement, but without distorting the meaning of Jesus' words. Thus, the phrase "The Father and I are one" in the Joanne context, the apostolic autograph ², is crucial for the understanding of the Doctrine of Unity, as already explained. The word "one" in the phrase in question in Greek is in the neuter gender, so they are not one person, and indeed, Jesus did not claim to be the Father, nor are they a "thing." On this, we will focus on what is already effectively revealed, not on what they may be.

When he says that the Father is in Jesus and Jesus is in the Father ³, as the Son of God ⁴ in particular ⁵, in particular, He is God ⁶, so He is prevented from doing something different from the Father ⁷, nor can He be less honored ⁸ and loved ⁹ than the Father, as well as being fully on the Father's throne ¹⁰. Jesus was the only one, and also the first, who, living in the flesh, was uniquely inside the Father ¹¹; here those who sought ¹² and did not achieve being ¹³ inside the first condition of humanity are excluded. Created within the image of God without corruption ¹⁴, including even those who were according to God's heart, like Kings David and Ezekiel, who had a greater permanence within God ¹⁵. A continuation of staying in God was necessary ¹⁶, which reached the whole nation ¹⁷. The prophetic project was consummated in the Name given to Jesus ¹⁸, for when He prophesied that as a Father ¹⁹, He would come in the quality of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, without losing the previous quality of Father in relation to the children, He revealed the Unity ²⁰ in the church, and it is through the Name of Jesus that we have Unity with God ²¹. Therefore, God also exalted Jesus, the one called the Logos of God ²², sovereignly, and gave Him a Name that is above every name, which no one knows except Himself ²³, and by this Name of the Father, Jesus and the Father are one ²⁴. So that at the Name given to Jesus, every knee should bow, in heaven, on earth, and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father ²⁵.

The interpretation of a union of purposes for the prayer "we are one" is a forced understanding of the Words of Jesus. He literally said, "I am inside God, and I and the Father are one, we are relatives in particular!" ²⁶ The Jews had no doubt that He was claiming to be God ²⁷. Another similar and significant case is Pharaoh's dreams ²⁸, which are two, but their substance is one, one metaphysical essence. "One" does not necessarily mean in this context one dream, as indeed two dream manifestations are understood. This extends to the argument that it is not one person, but two or more, with substantial unity. It is necessary to observe that the prayer "we are one" in the Joanne context, in Aramaic, is also found in the text that narrates Pharaoh's dreams, as well as in the Greek and Hebrew prayers, being the golden text of the article. Another example is that of Adam and Eve, both were one flesh, whether they had a son or more, they were husband and wife, male and female, one flesh. Now, in the case of the pastoral prophecy, in which David represents pastoral unity ²⁹ together with the Father. ³⁰ Following this line of thought, we come to the Church, which is made up of many members, who are one body. The Father and I are one Name, Jesus said without a doubt. Similarly, initially the three persons were one God. In the Scriptures, God is complex, the manifestation of the one in Flesh is truly a mystery.³¹ As the tabernacled Logos, He is also in the heavens. ³²

References in order of appearance

1) John 10:25-33
2) John 21:20,24
3) John 10:38
4) John 10:36
5) 2 Samuel 7:14 LXX, John 5:18
6) Philippians 2:6
7) John 5:19
8 ) John 5:23
9) 1 John 5:1
10) Acts 2:30
11) John 10:38; 14:10
12) 2 Samuel 19:08 LXX, 1 Kings 1:17,30; 2:30, Psalms 17:30 LXX, 18:29 HEB; 44:9 HEB, 55:5 LXX, 56:5 HEB; 107:14 LXX, 108:13 HEB; Hosea 1:7; Habakkuk 3:18, Zechariah 12:5
13) Romans 11:7
14) Genesis 9:6
15) 1 Samuel 30:6, 2 Kings 18:4,5
16) 1 Samuel 25:9; Psalms 32:21 LXX, 33:21 HEB; 43:6, 44:5 HEB; 43:9 LXX, 44:8 HEB; 53:3 LXX, 54:4 HEB; 62:5 LXX HEB; 88:13 LXX, 89:12 HEB; 88:17 LXX, 89:16 HEB; 104:3 LXX, 106:3 HEB; Zechariah 10:12; Daniel 9:6; Mark 9:38; 16:17; Luke 9:49; 10:17; John 5:43; 10:25; 14:13; 14:14; 13:26; 14:14; 14:26; 15:16; 16:23; 16:24; 16:26; 17:12; 20:31; Atos 3:6; 4:10; 9:27,28; 10:48; 1 Coríntios 6:11; Tiago 5:10,14
Here are the literal translations of the provided verses and passages in American English:
17) Zechariah 10:12, Psalms 44:8, Micah 5:4
18) John 20:31
19) John 14:18
20) 1 Corinthians 3:8, 5:4, 12:12, Galatians 3:20, 3:28; 1 John 5:18
21) 1 John 5:20, Romans 5:11, Colossians 3:3, 1 Thessalonians 1:1, 1 John 4:15, 4:16
22) Revelation 19:13
23) Revelation 19:12
24) John 17:11
25) Philippians 2:9-11
26) Luke 1:61
27) John 10:33
28) Genesis 41:26, 41:27
29) Ezekiel 37:24
30) Psalms 23:1; 80:1 HEB
31) Ephesians 3:9
32) John 3:13.

In the above context, as seen before, "The Name" is in the neuter, so Jesus said, it is within the "Name": "in (within) the name of my Father" (John 10:25).

It fulfills the prophecy of Zechariah 14:9: "The LORD will be King over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be one, and His name one." Therefore, there is one Lord, because there is one Name (John 10:30). As the Son of the Father, eternally begotten within righteousness and truth, "...τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ πατρὸς ἐν ἀληθείᾳ καὶ ἀγάπῃ..." (John 13:31, 32; 1 Tim 3:16; 2 John 1:3, Romans 3:21, Romans 1:19, 1 John 4:9), He will establish Himself and shepherd us in the power of Yahweh, in the majesty of the Name of the LORD. This is His Elohim, the God! And we will live in peace and security, for His greatness will reach to the ends of the earth. Micah 5:4, also Zechariah 10:12; 12:5.

Therefore, the Son and the Father are united in equality (John 5:18, Philippians 2:6, John 13:31). All these prophecies and signs have been fulfilled and recorded so that we may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing, we may have life in His Name, the Name of the Father (John 20:31).

And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the True One; and we are in the True One, that is, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the True God and Eternal Life. 1 John 5:20.

So, Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in the Son (Matthew 1:23, John 10:38; 14:10-11, 18; and 1 Cor 8:6), and there is one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Ephesians 4:6 Pad. G.J. Therefore, this True God is the Father only when the Person of the Son emerges within Him (Hebrews 1:13), and we are only in God when we are in His Son, who, generated within God, transported us to God through His blood. It is not surprising that:

By which He has granted to us His precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. Acf 2 Peter 1:4.

We partake of the divine nature of the Father!

NOTE: I am not using the following text as inspired or adulterated; it is not the focus. However, it is certainly a text from the early church, hence its exegetical value: "baptizing them IN the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" Matthew 28:19. It is not "BY," nor "WITH," but WITHIN the NAME of the FATHER, WITHIN the NAME of the SON, and WITHIN the Name of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, these three have ONE NAME through this early exegesis and agreement with the article.

To understand the force of the use of the preposition εν in John 14:20 and determine if it suggests a full indwelling, we need to consider various arguments, including the analysis of other verses and the provided context.

The verse in question is John 14:20, which says: "In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you." (NIV)

**Meaning of the preposition εν + dative in biblical contexts**
The use of the preposition εν + dative in John 14:20 is crucial. This construction is used in a static sense, and the preposition εν is often associated with the idea of a sphere. Analyzing the contexts of other verses, such as 1 Samuel 23:2, 1 Samuel 28:6, and others, reveals the intimacy of consulting God or walking under His sovereignty. This suggests that the preposition εν in John 14:20 also implies a deep connection and relationship. Judges (A) 20:23; Judges (A) 21:7; 1 Samuel 2:1; 1 Samuel 10:22; 1 Samuel 24:22; 1 Samuel 30:6; 2 Samuel 2:1; 2 Samuel 19:8; 1 Kings 1:17; 1 Kings 1:30; 2 Kings 18:5; 2 Chronicles 20:20; 2 Chronicles 26:16; Psalm 20:8; Psalm 32:1; Isaiah 45:25; Hosea 1:7; Habakkuk 3:18; Zechariah 10:12; Zechariah 12:5;

**Correlations with other verses**
The text refers to other verses that emphasize the unity between the Father, the Son, and the disciples. In John 10:15, Jesus speaks of mutual knowledge between him and the Father, which is related to the idea of being "in" each other. Furthermore, John 14:17 mentions the Spirit of Truth dwelling in the disciples, indicating that mutual knowledge is linked to the divine presence. John 1:18, John 14:10-11, and 1 John 2:5; 1 John 2:24; 1 John 4:13; 1 John 4:16

"ginōskein" and "ginōskousin"
The apparent redundancy in the passage concerns the use of the words "know" and "understand" in the context. The phrase in question, "Knowing and understanding" in English, uses two verbs with similar meanings. In the original Greek context, the verbs used are "ginōskein," which is in the aorist form (know), and "ginōskousin," which is in the present form (understand) of the same verb. This choice can be interpreted in two ways: Emphasis: The use of both forms of the verb can emphasize the importance of comprehensive understanding and is not just about having knowledge but also deeply comprehending what is being conveyed.

Saint Basil's Perspective

BOOK OF SAINT BASIL ON THE SPIRIT.
ON THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: Series II/Volume VIII/On the Holy Spirit/Chapter 18 Philip Schaff et al.

In what manner, in the confession of the three hypostases, we preserve the pious dogma of Monarchy. Where is also the refutation of those who claim that the Spirit is subnumbered.

45. "... And until now we have never heard, not even in the present, of a second God. In worshipping God from God, we confess the distinction of Persons and at the same time remain in the Monarchy. We do not dismember theology into a divided plurality because a Form, as it were, united in the immutability of Divinity, is seen in God the Father and in God the Only-begotten. For the Son is in the Father, and the Father is in the Son; for as this is, so is that, and as that is, so is this; and here is the Unity. Thus, according to the distinction of Persons, both are one and one, and according to the community of Nature, one."

Saint Basil emphasizes the unity of the Trinity and how the presence of each divine Person is inseparable. He asserts that the Son is in the Father, and the Father is in the Son, and this unity is based on the community of nature and the distinction of persons. This supports the idea that the preposition εν in John 14:20 denotes a deep and unbreakable connection that goes beyond mere physical presence.

"In response to the Key Question."
Based on the arguments presented, the use of the preposition εν in John 14:20 suggests an intimate and profound connection between the Father, the Son, and the disciples. This connection goes beyond physical presence and implies a deep spiritual union. The use of εν (+ dative) in this context indeed suggests a "full dwelling," indicating that the divine presence is not just superficial but involves a deep and inseparable spiritual communion between God, Jesus, and believers. Therefore, the strength of the preposition εν in John 14:20 denotes a complete spiritual union.

[RabbiKnife]

Do you have a point?
And, what’s the source for the cut and paste?

Well, here's part of it...

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/47175/what-is-the-force-of-jesus-use-of-the-preposition-%CE%B5%CE%BD-in-john-1420

[Betho]

"I am the author of the article, and it encapsulates my response to the question."

[RabbiKnife]

Congratulations on writing 3000 words that convey very little information.

[Betho]

If this were true, you wouldn't have gone to retrieve the information from Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange, nor would you have posted this ad hominem fallacy against my post, thus revealing your religious bias and strongly supporting the argument that the article is highly relevant and has affected your mind. I am withdrawing from the forum out of respect for the other participants.

[Fenris]

I am withdrawing from the forum out of respect for the other participants.

Not all heroes wear capes.

[Athanasius]

I guess we'll never know what all those footnotes were meant to convey.

[MadThinker]

I just asked the SAME question!

Is this question TABOO here?

[Athanasius didn't like that]
[User banned for double-accounting]

[Fenris]

[Athanasius didn't like that]
[User banned for double-accounting]

Party pooper.

[Athanasius]

I know, but it's just going to turn into nonsense we've already seen and nothing original. If they were going to be original with their nonsense then maybe I'd let them stick around a bit.

[CrimsonTide21]

You still cannot refute Jesus' word of "His Father is His God".

You guys dancing around too much, friend.

God is Jesus' God. But He is also God because He is the Word of God in human form. He is the Son of God because God's Spirit caused His conception in Mary's womb, but He is God in the sense of being the Word incarnate. The Apostle John opens his Gospel presenting Jesus as He was before He was Jesus. We're told that the Word was both with God and was God from eternity (John 1:1-3), and that the Word was robed in humanity, and dwelled among men (John 1:14).

As you read these words, consider that they are my thoughts--invisible, unknown and unknowable to you. Yet, they are given substance and made manifest by my words. They are still my thoughts, but represented in a way you can know them. In a similar way, God is an invisible Spirit, unknown and unknowable to us until He manifests and reveals Himself by means of His Word. In the opening verses of Genesis, He was displeased with the watery darkness in which the earth was submerged. It was His will that there be light. He sent forth His word, and there was light.

In a similar way, Abraham was steeped in a culture of dark paganism and idolatry and the true Almighty was unknown until God revealed Himself to Abraham by speaking to Him. In the midst of the spiritual darkness, God enlightened the mind of a man by sending forth His word to reveal Himself, initiating the beginning of His work of man's redemption. This principle is beautifully depicted by the prophet Isaiah:

For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat, so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it. (Isaiah 55:8-11)

God's manifests Himself and reveals His mind, will and purpose by means of His divine word, and Jesus is the human incarnation of that word. That's why Paul calls Him "the image of the invisible God." And that's why Jesus said that to see Him was to see the Father (John 14:9). Jesus spoke of being one with God even before the world existed (John 14:5), and of being sent forth from God to accomplish His will (John 4:34; 8:42; 16;27-28; 17:8-9). Thus, Jesus, as the Word of God incarnate, is declared to have proceeded forth from God to fulfill His purpose in the same manner described by Isaiah. Moreover, He returned to Him not void, but having fully accomplished the purpose for which He was sent by means of His sacrificial death and resurrection.

So yes, God is the God and Father of Jesus. But Jesus is God as the divine Word incarnate; now and forever a temple of glorified humanity in whom dwells the Spirit of God. He has returned to the Father as depicted in Daniel 7:13, and will one day return to establish His earthly kingdom. Those who dwell in that kingdom will not see the invisible God, but will behold upon the throne the Word that reveals and manifests Him, as the king of glory.

Your post sums up my thoughts (I think LOL)

Jesus is God in the sense that he is the Word (or perfect representation, message, whatever) of God in human form.  He is clearly separate from the Father, though to say he is "not equal" doesn't really make sense in the context of who He is.  He is the perfect expression of God the Father.  God revealed Himself through the Law and the Prophets (His Word) and, ultimately, through Jesus.

Whether Jesus is God or Jesus is the Word of God, Son of God...or all of the above, whatever...His death was deemed worthy by God the Father to reconcile us to Himself.

[Bruce_Leiter]

@Meshak, I'll quote Jesus' seven "I am" claims to be God with the Father with which he identifies himself directly with the God of Moses' burning bush:

Exo 3:6  And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God....Exo 3:14  God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” 

Joh 6:35  Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 
Joh 6:36  But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 
Joh 6:37  All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 

Joh 8:58  Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” Joh 8:59  So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. 

Joh 9:5  As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” 

Joh 10:7  So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 
Joh 10:8  All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 
Joh 10:9  I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 

Joh 10:14  I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 
Joh 10:15  just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 

Joh 11:25  Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 
Joh 11:26  and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?” 
Joh 11:27  She said to him, “Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming into the world.” 

Joh 15:1  “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 

Jesus uses the words "ego eimi" (I--I am) that the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint) uses in Exodus 3:14 to quote God in talking with Moses. Either Jesus is who he says he is in claiming to be God or he is mentally insane. Because he performs many miracles and rises permanently from the dead, he confirms his full deity as God. John says it clearly in his introduction, "Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Thus, the Word, who becomes Jesus when he is conceived and born, is both God and with God. The biblical fact that God is three Persons and yet one God is a mystery that we can't solve with our human minds but is true.   

[Athanasius]

Meshak is banned, just fyi.

[Fenris]

Meshak is banned, just fyi.