What Makes A Person Jewish?

[RabbiKnife]

Maybe you need a new Bible…

😳😀

[Fenris]

Maybe you need a new Bible…

"You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it," Deuteronomy 4 and elsewhere.

[Sojourner]

Mary provides Jesus' Jewish DNA, while God Himself decrees His Son's right to the throne as messiah.

This is irrelevant. You can't sell Jesus as being from the line of David when his father is not, in fact, from the line of David.

(See Psalms 2).

This Psalm is about David.

I said Jesus is Jewish because of Mary, and that He inherits the kingdom because God says so. I didn't anticipate an agreement about Psalms 2.

[Fenris]

😳😀

I mean really, if your answer is "I know the rules in your bible don't permit this, but if you accept this new revelation it all works out..." then how can you logically reject Mormonism? Or Islam for that matter?

[Fenris]

I said Jesus is Jewish because of Mary,

Which is trivial, but ok.

and that He inherits the kingdom because God says so.

But the messiah has to come from the line of David. By your definition, he doesn't. If God had no intention of doing that, why put it in the bible to begin with?

I didn't anticipate an agreement about Psalms 2.

Psalm 2 is irrelevant, given the above point.

[Fenris]

I didn't anticipate an agreement about Psalms 2.

There is no reason to believe this Psalm is about anyone besides the author, king David. Verse 7: "I will tell of the decree; The Lord said to me, "You are My son; this day have I begotten you."

But even if you want to say that it's referring to the messiah, so what? The biblical line where God refers to someone as "My son" does not mean that they are of divine origin. God refers to the entire nation of Israel in this manner, Exodus 4, for example, "Then tell Pharaoh that this is what the LORD says: ‘Israel is My firstborn son, and I told you to let My son go so that he may worship Me. " Or Hosea 11: "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son..." Or Deuteronomy 14: You are the children of the LORD your God.

This is also a poetic term referring to the line of king David. For example, about king Solomon: He said to me: ‘Solomon your son is the one who will build my house and my courts, for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.  It doesn't mean that Solomon didn't have a human father.

[RabbiKnife]

😳😀

I mean really, if your answer is "I know the rules in your bible don't permit this, but if you accept this new revelation it all works out..." then how can you logically reject Mormonism? Or Islam for that matter?

The Hebrew Scriptures were new revelation for the previous folks.  Let’s not appeal to self defeating logic…

[Fenris]

The Hebrew Scriptures were new revelation for the previous folks. 

The Hebrew scriptures did not contradict previously existing divine revelation.

[RabbiKnife]

What previous revelation do you consider to be divine?

[RabbiKnife]

The Hebrew Scriptures were new revelation for the previous folks. 

The Hebrew scriptures did not contradict previously existing divine revelation.

New Testament does not claim to contradict the old.

It claims that the Old is fulfilled in the person of Jesus the Messiah and that the New Covenant based in Jesus blood sacrifice is the basis of a new and better covenant.

I believe that by faith, just as you hold to the old covenant by faith.

[Fenris]

What previous revelation do you consider to be divine?

None.

[Fenris]

New Testament does not claim to contradict the old.

We are having a discussion in which it appears that it does.

The messiah must come from the line of king David, passed down father to son. Jesus is not descended from king David on his father's side.

[RabbiKnife]

But if one believes the virgin birth then the adopting human father would be the legal line to David

[Sojourner]

There is no reason to believe this Psalm is about anyone besides the author, king David. Verse 7: "I will tell of the decree; The Lord said to me, "You are My son; this day have I begotten you."

But even if you want to say that it's referring to the messiah, so what? The biblical line where God refers to someone as "My son" does not mean that they are of divine origin. God refers to the entire nation of Israel in this manner, Exodus 4, for example, "Then tell Pharaoh that this is what the LORD says: ‘Israel is My firstborn son, and I told you to let My son go so that he may worship Me. " Or Hosea 11: "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son..." Or Deuteronomy 14: You are the children of the LORD your God.

This is also a poetic term referring to the line of king David. For example, about king Solomon: He said to me: ‘Solomon your son is the one who will build my house and my courts, for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.  It doesn't mean that Solomon didn't have a human father.

Well some of your Jewish sages believed Psalms 2 referred to David's greater son, the messiah, so I guess it's a matter of interpretation. Here's a point to consider: the text describes the nations conspiring against God and His Annointed in a futile attempt to throw off their subservience to them. (This actually sounds like the great rebellion that occurs at the end of the Millennial Kingdom as described in Revelation 20:7-9).

At any rate, in order to cast off such a yoke, the nations had to first be under it. With the nations of the world never having been in subjection to David as God's annointed, Psalms 2 is prophecy concerning the dominion of a future messianic ruler. I choose to believe that individual is Jesus of Nazareth. Time will tell.

[Fenris]

But if one believes the virgin birth then the adopting human father would be the legal line to David

Nope.

Adoption in Judaism is a big Mitzvah, but it confers no legal rights on the adoptee. One can't be adopted by the king and be in line for the throne. One can't be adopted by the high priest and be the next high priest.