Moral Courage or Foolishness? Ukraine.

[Athanasius]

I've been deceived by Satan after I believed in Christ, but I'm learning as we all should. I did enjoy my weekend, but I didn't take it off.

That's nice. Consider the next ban permanent.

[RandyPNW]

The problem Randy, is that human understanding isn't going to solve a problem that has a spiritual root. The "international problem" is sin and God allowed mankind to express their corruption when they nailed his Son to a cross.

I agree, and I'm sorry you think I was proposing a non-spiritual answer to things. Sometimes there are no satisfactory answers to immediate cases of suffering in the world. People rebel against God's Law, and He allows them to do that in demonstration of His mercy. He can't forgive sins unless He lets people sin to begin with.

None of this is an effort to justify sin just because "God allows it to happen." When the Scriptures speak of the necessity of suffering in our lives, it is trying to prepare our expectations, so that when suffering happens we know that God knows and will eventually resolve every issue.

[journeyman]

Journeyman, if you believe the New Testament, you must believe that the love of God reached out to you, a filthy godless enemy of God just like the rest of us, before you sought Him.

I do know this,

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled Col.1:21

Being given mercy doesn't mean I'm better than the Russians. I've been saying this all along.

Romans 5:7-8  Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8  But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

I'd say that God goes that far.

I'd say you're right.

This war in Ukraine isn't for any reason Putin thinks it is. The real reason is because Putin hates God. He may never have heard the gospel, or had it presented to him properly.

[journeyman]

That's nice. Consider the next ban permanent.

I'll do my best not to let the thought of expulsion deter me from sharing the gispel.

[journeyman]

I agree, and I'm sorry you think I was proposing a non-spiritual answer to things. Sometimes there are no satisfactory answers to immediate cases of suffering in the world. People rebel against God's Law, and He allows them to do that in demonstration of His mercy. He can't forgive sins unless He lets people sin to begin with.

None of this is an effort to justify sin just because "God allows it to happen." When the Scriptures speak of the necessity of suffering in our lives, it is trying to prepare our expectations, so that when suffering happens we know that God knows and will eventually resolve every issue.

I know what you mean. I get it. All I mean is, when wars like this happen, we sometimes start thinking, "What are "WE" going to do about it?" (WE meaning us human government.) We're citizens of the USA, but we've become citizems of the Kingdom of God, so we're not of this world anymore. We now have the answers to stopping these wars, which are the result of sinful behavior.

We know that conflicts like these will only be resolved for people who come to Jesus. It's sad, but our dear Lord also came into this world for judgment and along with his mercy, we should make people aware of that.

[RabbiKnife]

And while we wring our hands and hypothesize about stuff above our pay grade, some of our brothers and sisters run into the war zone to actually do something...

https://www.samaritanspurse.org/our-ministry/ukraine-response/?utm_source=Ggl&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=m_YGUK-B22V&utm_content=Ukraine-LP&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-fuow97K9gIVyxXUAR094gghEAAYASAAEgKTRvD_BwE

[Athanasius]

That's nice. Consider the next ban permanent.

I'll do my best not to let the thought of expulsion deter me from sharing the gispel.

You were banned for suggesting another member is under Satanic deception. No one here will get banned for 'sharing the gispel' <sic>. So chin up, shoulders back, you're yet to be spared the righteous badge of honour of online matyrdom.

[Athanasius]

And while we wring our hands and hypothesize about stuff above our pay grade, some of our brothers and sisters run into the war zone to actually do something...

https://www.samaritanspurse.org/our-ministry/ukraine-response/?utm_source=Ggl&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=m_YGUK-B22V&utm_content=Ukraine-LP&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-fuow97K9gIVyxXUAR094gghEAAYASAAEgKTRvD_BwE

There is this and other good causes to donate towards, should we be unable to run into the war zone ourselves (doesn't mean we're unable to support those who do).

[Fenris]

The Messiah relieved human suffering and expects those who believe in him to do the same. You've been here a long time. How is it that you haven't learned  the Messiahs' suffering is the result of mankinds rejection of God?

well, there's the small matter that I don't believe Jesus to be the messiah, and I place his suffering at the hand of the Romans who were really quite oppressive to those who upset public order.

[Fenris]

But I'm curious. How far do you think the love of God goes toward people who don't care about him?

We are all God's children, so...

[journeyman]

[You were banned for suggesting another member is under Satanic deception. No one here will get banned for 'sharing the gispel' <sic>. So chin up, shoulders back, you're yet to be spared the righteous badge of honour of online matyrdom.

Online martyrdom lol. That's hilarious!
Why do you think our Lord stopped Peter from defending him?

[Athanasius]

[You were banned for suggesting another member is under Satanic deception. No one here will get banned for 'sharing the gispel' <sic>. So chin up, shoulders back, you're yet to be spared the righteous badge of honour of online matyrdom.

Online martyrdom lol. That's hilarious!
Why do you think our Lord stopped Peter from defending him?

Because He knew, some 1,992 years later you would make this reference, and to ensure that time remained a closed-loop, Peter had to be told not to defend him, or else you wouldn't have made this reference, then we'd all discover that we do actually exist in a false vacuum and it just collapsed. AHHHHHHHHHH!!! Except no one would scream because we'd be snuffed out before we knew what was happening.

The inconvenient truth is this: you were invited to do something else for the weekend because you made an inappropriate comment, and not because you shared the gospel. If you want to continue to argue the point and in some way paint me as an enemy of the gospel - because who else would ban you for sharing it - then I will make all of your dreams come true.

Well, by all of your dreams I mean just the one where you can tell people, incorrectly, that you were banned from a forum for your righteousness stance and dedication to the gospel. There are many places you could have gone with my calling you/your position naive. Deceived by the Beast™ is the step-too-far option.

So, getting back to things: Jesus asking Peter to stop defending Him (Jesus) has nothing to do with the current situation in Ukraine. When I say 'nothing' I don't mean that someone can't preach a sermon and try to set an example. I mean that the appeal is contextually inappropriate insofar as it's suggested to be a guide to our own action in times of war.

Do you want to be a pacifist? That's fine. But stick to that, and don't suggest that others are missing the point of the kingdom of God in choosing to fight apathy, evil, a lack of concern for the otherwise innocent, and so on.

[journeyman]

well, there's the small matter that I don't believe Jesus to be the messiah, and I place his suffering at the hand of the Romans who were really quite oppressive to those who upset public order.

He conquered the Romans when he rose from death, but his patience with oppressive government has an end.

But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth. Psa.86:15

Nobody will ever teach this better than the Messiah did.

[journeyman]

[You were banned for suggesting another member is under Satanic deception. No one here will get banned for 'sharing the gispel' <sic>. So chin up, shoulders back, you're yet to be spared the righteous badge of honour of online matyrdom.

Online martyrdom lol. That's hilarious!
Why do you think our Lord stopped Peter from defending him?

Because He knew, some 1,992 years later you would make this reference, and to ensure that time remained a closed-loop, Peter had to be told not to defend him, or else you wouldn't have made this reference, then we'd all discover that we do actually exist in a false vacuum and it just collapsed. AHHHHHHHHHH!!! Except no one would scream because we'd be snuffed out before we knew what was happening.

The inconvenient truth is this: you were invited to do something else for the weekend because you made an inappropriate comment, and not because you shared the gospel. If you want to continue to argue the point and in some way paint me as an enemy of the gospel - because who else would ban you for sharing it - then I will make all of your dreams come true.

Well, by all of your dreams I mean just the one where you can tell people, incorrectly, that you were banned from a forum for your righteousness stance and dedication to the gospel. There are many places you could have gone with my calling you/your position naive. Deceived by the Beast™ is the step-too-far option.

So, getting back to things: Jesus asking Peter to stop defending Him (Jesus) has nothing to do with the current situation in Ukraine. When I say 'nothing' I don't mean that someone can't preach a sermon and try to set an example. I mean that the appeal is contextually inappropriate insofar as it's suggested to be a guide to our own action in times of war.

Do you want to be a pacifist? That's fine. But stick to that, and don't suggest that others are missing the point of the kingdom of God in choosing to fight apathy, evil, a lack of concern for the otherwise innocent, and so on.

I'm not a pacifist. I'm just not using man made weapons to fight apathy, evil and lack of concern for others. Naive is just another way of calling someone stupid.

[RabbiKnife]

Naive and stupid are two entirely different things