Two things died today, 2/24/22

[Fenris]

1) The UN. I mean it was always a joke but today showed that it's completely meaningless.

2) The myth of "soft power". Military power comes from the barrel of a gun and that's it.

[RabbiKnife]

True dat

[Athanasius]

I wonder if a Ukraine that hadn't demilitarised/denuclearized would have given the Soviets pause to reconsider.

[Fenris]

I wonder if a Ukraine that hadn't demilitarised/denuclearized would have given the Soviets pause to reconsider.

Of course.

We guaranteed Ukraine's independence in exchange for their giving up nukes. Who will ever trust us again? 

[Fenris]

Ah, there we go:

Menachem Begin: "There is no guarantee in the world that can guarantee a guarantee."

Everyone is on their own.

I wonder if a new (weak, is there any other kind?) Iran nuclear deal will prompt Israel to attack Iran. I mean it's obvious the international community is a paper tiger.

[Athanasius]

Those idiots are fighting around Chernobyl now. Nothing like spewing radioactive dust everywhere if they hit the wrong thing. Are they trying to drag everyone else into the conflict?

[IMINXTC]

He'll do everything possible to weaken and peel back NATO.

[Fenris]

Those idiots are fighting around Chernobyl now.

Ukraine is 100% a victim here.

[Athanasius]

Those idiots are fighting around Chernobyl now.

Ukraine is 100% a victim here.

Yeah, and Europe will sit on its hands and watch as it always does.

[RabbiKnife]

He'll do everything possible to weaken and peel back NATO.

You talking about Putin or Obama?

[IMINXTC]

Yes.

[RandyPNW]

I'm kind of a follower of Tucker Carlson. But  on the issue of our involvement overseas in foreign wars, I'm more hawkish than him. He's been stating that Ukraine is important to certain elitists, eg Biden, but not to most avg. Americans.

I don't know about that. It's true that the Media can be a daunting influence to many people, but I also think patriotism and universal democratic principles and human ideals matter to most people in the West. I think a lot of us do care about what happens even over on the other side of the world. We are all subject to how the news is delivered to us, but universal principles of right and wrong can't be obscured that much.

What made it come home to me recently is due to my Mother's death a few years ago, and having to go through stuff she saved about my Dad. Apparently my Grandfather on my Dad's side escaped Russia from their home in Ukraine. I had no idea for most of my life about the details of this "escape."

In a diary kept my my Grandfather's brother, they crept across the border, and unfortunately made a loud noise. They about died from fear that the guard had heard them! But they made it to their next stop, though held back for a time by the flu. They remember the ship passing London (my wife is English), and then eating an apple they said was from WA State (I live in WA State). And they were greeted in New York by a minister (I'm a Christian).

Clearly, we still have relatives in Ukraine--I just don't know where they are.

[IMINXTC]

He's been stating that Ukraine is important to certain elitists, eg Biden, but not to most avg. Americans.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation. It had not provoked. How important is that?

Clearly, we still have relatives in Ukraine--I just don't know where they are.

Sorry about your family.

[Kingfisher]

Here's a good article on how to hit back at Putin...

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-698594

[Fenris]

I'm kind of a follower of Tucker Carlson. But  on the issue of our involvement overseas in foreign wars, I'm more hawkish than him. He's been stating that Ukraine is important to certain elitists, eg Biden, but not to most avg. Americans.

I used to like Tucker, but he's been wrong on so much lately. He is unfortunately 100% wrong on the Ukraine. They're a sovereign nation being invaded by an expansionist neighbor. If we're suddenly going to say that it's permissible because it's a "quarrel in a far away country, between people of whom we know nothing" (Neville Chamberlin, 1938, referring to Germany and Czeckeslovakia) then all of a sudden it's going to be permissible in a lot of other places.