Might as well make use of this space

[Fenris]

Listen carefully. The Jews religion disagrees with basic all other human doctrine and is the real reason they have been persecuted like no other.

Listen carefully. It's not ok to persecute people just because they disagree with your theology.

And I'd like to hear your rationale for how Judaism "disagrees with basic all other human doctrine".

Listen very carefully. It's not a new religion. Believers in Jesus have been persecuted like no other.

This is really funny. So in your world, Jews have been "persecuted like no other" because they're wrong, and Christians have been "persecuted like no other" because they're right.

Answered already.

No, you haven't.

"From now on", means "I went to the Jews first, like Jesus and all his believing Jews did,

The messiah is sent to redeem the Jews, not the world at large. The covenant in Jeremiah is between God and Judah/Israel, not the whole world.

I've told you numerous times now. You think he was too weak, or couldn't find a reason. You're wrong on either count.

Numerous times you have outright ignored the plain text of the bible. I cite a verse, or a paragraph, and you pretend it's not there.

And what could do this, more than knowing there really is life after death? Being assured our loved ones will see a better life? Please tell me Fenris if you know of any reason better to restrain from tears of sorrow.

Um, try reading the next few verses because it explains.

 This is what the Lord says:

“A voice is heard in Ramah,
    mourning and great weeping,
Rachel weeping for her children
    and refusing to be comforted,
    because they are no more.”

 This is what the Lord says:

“Restrain your voice from weeping
    and your eyes from tears,
for your work will be rewarded,”
declares the Lord.
    “They will return from the land of the enemy.
 So there is hope for your descendants,”
declares the Lord.
    “Your children will return to their own land.

It's not about life after death, it's about Rachel's descendants returning to their land. You're going to ignore this because you don't like it, as you always do.

And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just. Lk.14:14

Has nothing to do with the verse in question.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven Mt.5:19

And yet you don't keep the Sabbath or kashrut.

And what love is more everlasting than loving someone, even an enemy enough to die for them?

This is your belief, but it isn't in the bible.

“Hear the word of the Lord, you nations;
    proclaim it in distant coastlands:
‘He who scattered Israel will gather them
    and will watch over his flock like a shepherd.’
 For the Lord will deliver Jacob
    and redeem them from the hand of those stronger than they.
 They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion;
    they will rejoice in the bounty of the Lord

I'm doing that now, along with other gentiles and Jews, in honor of the one who drew us with unfailing kindness.

And yet you ignore the text, as usual.

It's sin that brings people into captivity

The captivity was an actual exile, as the bible plainly states.

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. Lk.23:34

I must tell you Fenris, had it been me, I would have slaughtered them. How bout you?

Slaughtered who for what? Disagreeing?

It's talking about those who say, The fathers ate sour grapes, but their children were affected .....and those who learn not to say that, which includes both Jews and gentiles.

You're ignoring the rest of the verses. By what right?

The land of the enemy is anywhere people are ignorant of God. Believers return to him from there.

You just made that up. Brilliant.

It's sin that brings people into captivity and there they stay, until they learn how forgiving God was,

You made that up too. Does nothing in the bible mean what it says?

[Fenris]

I'm worn out

[RabbiKnife]

I’m your Huckleberry.

[Fenris]

I’m your Huckleberry.

My favorite scene, because it's so profound.

[journeyman]

Listen carefully. It's not ok to persecute people just because they disagree with your theology.

Only God has the right to punish for that reason. He may choose to refrain from it though.

And I'd like to hear your rationale for how Judaism "disagrees with basic all other human doctrine".

There's only one true God, so it's self explanatory.

This is really funny. So in your world, Jews have been "persecuted like no other" because they're wrong, and Christians have been "persecuted like no other" because they're right.

Don't know how you twisted my meaning, but my point was they're exactly alike.

The messiah is sent to redeem the Jews, not the world at large. The covenant in Jeremiah is between God and Judah/Israel, not the whole world.

Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
[/quote]Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock. vs.9

The reason for publishing to the gentiles, Gods' goodness to Israel, is so that gentiles would come to honor God. You agree with your rabbis that Jesus is still dead, but if
that was true, there would be no New Testament. The Jews who penned it weren't liars, or being decieved. Gamaliel had this right,

And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. Act.5:38-39
 

Numerous times you have outright ignored the plain text of the bible. I cite a verse, or a paragraph, and you pretend it's not there.

I've ignoted nothing you've said. I specifically answered every objection you've made.

Um, try reading the next few verses because it explains.

 This is what the Lord says:

“A voice is heard in Ramah,
    mourning and great weeping,
Rachel weeping for her children
    and refusing to be comforted,
    because they are no more.”

 This is what the Lord says:

“Restrain your voice from weeping
    and your eyes from tears,
for your work will be rewarded,”
declares the Lord.
    “They will return from the land of the enemy.
 So there is hope for your descendants,”
declares the Lord.
    “Your children will return to their own land.

It's not about life after death, it's about Rachel's descendants returning to their land. You're going to ignore this because you don't like it, as you always do.

No. It's teaching about Rachels children who are no more returning. When all earthly hope seemed lost, her sorrow was turned to joy at the resurrection of Messiah.

Has nothing to do with the verse in question.

It has everything to do with it Fenris, because  of Rachel, whose children were rewarded evil for good in this world. Gods' promise of reward to faithful Jews applies to the living and the dead.

And yet you don't keep the Sabbath or kashrut.

I've explained how we rest on the Sabbath and unclean animals are explained in Acts 10 as symbolic of gentiles.

This is your belief, but it isn't in the bible.

Sure it is. It's the means by which the nations have come to faith in the God of the Jews.

And yet you ignore the text, as usual.

I answered plainly. Why you don't like the answer is unreasonable.

The captivity was an actual exile, as the bible plainly states.

Yes I know. It's both.

Slaughtered who for what? Disagreeing?

No, but that's how it started. I was referring to the vile and vicious way the Innocent was treated.

You're ignoring the rest of the verses. By what right?

I'm not ignoring the rest of the verses. They're related to Jer.31:30, which is related to  Eze.18, so the belief that all Jews are Gods' people isn't true.

You made that up too. Does nothing in the bible mean what it says?

It all means what it says. Believers know what caused their bondage.

[Athanasius]

There's only one true God, so it's self explanatory.

Nah, I'd like to read more about what you mean by this. Are you saying, for instance, that Jews and Christians are persecuted as much as they are because they hold views, values, and beliefs in contradistinction to "human doctrine", i.e., the views, values and beliefs of the "world"?

Jews have been far more persecuted than Christians; but by the way, it's not a competition.

[journeyman]

Be not overly wicked, and be not a fool; why should you die before your time? Ecc.7:17

[journeyman]

Nah, I'd like to read more about what you mean by this. Are you saying, for instance, that Jews and Christians are persecuted as much as they are because they hold views, values, and beliefs in contradistinction to "human doctrine", i.e., the views, values and beliefs of the "world"?

Jews have been far more persecuted than Christians; but by the way, it's not a competition.

I wasn't turning it into a competition. They're one body,

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.....for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Mt.5:11-12

But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. Jn.15:21

[Athanasius]

Nah, I'd like to read more about what you mean by this. Are you saying, for instance, that Jews and Christians are persecuted as much as they are because they hold views, values, and beliefs in contradistinction to "human doctrine", i.e., the views, values and beliefs of the "world"?

Jews have been far more persecuted than Christians; but by the way, it's not a competition.

I wasn't turning it into a competition. They're one body,

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.....for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Mt.5:11-12

But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. Jn.15:21

Okay, but now expanding on this thought with respect to Judaism, who aren't persecuted for the sake of believing in Christ?

[journeyman]

Okay, but now expanding on this thought with respect to Judaism, who aren't persecuted for the sake of believing in Christ?

They're persecuted for their faith in God and the Messiah is one with his Father,

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Jn.6:45

They may not have even been aware of it, but it's pretty obvious now.

[Fenris]

Only God has the right to punish for that reason.

And yet people do it.

And I'd like to hear your rationale for how Judaism "disagrees with basic all other human doctrine".

There's only one true God, so it's self explanatory.

This doesn't answer the question at all. Explain it to me like I'm 5. How does  Judaism disagree with basic all other human doctrine?

Don't know how you twisted my meaning, but my point was they're exactly alike.

They're the opposite. Jews are persecuted because they're wrong but Christians are persecuted because they're right?

The reason for publishing to the gentiles, Gods' goodness to Israel, is so that gentiles would come to honor God.

But this is an as of yet unfulfilled messianic prophecy. How can you boast of God's goondess to Israel for an event that hasn't occurred?

You agree with your rabbis that Jesus is still dead, but if that was true, there would be no New Testament.

Why? The Koran exists, Islam is also based on Judaism. Does that mean that Mohammed was correct?

The Jews who penned it weren't liars, or being decieved.

We actually don't know who penned the NT. Or when. Or where.

Gamaliel had this right,

And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. Act.5:38-39

Just because some movement is "of God" doesn't mean that it's correct or true. Assyria was the "rod of God's anger" even though they were idolatrous mass murderers.
 

I've ignoted nothing you've said. I specifically answered every objection you've made.

You have repeatedly said that things are "obvious" as though that is an answer to a question. It's not.

No. It's teaching about Rachels children who are no more returning.

Yes. They're returning to the land of Israel. It says that in the plain text.  You don't get to say "I don't like this verse in the bible, so I'm pretending it isn't there".

I've explained how we rest on the Sabbath and unclean animals are explained in Acts 10 as symbolic of gentiles.

But the bible doesn't say it's symbolic. It says these are actual things that the people under the covenant are expected to do. You're can't simultaneously argue that there's a "new covenant" that abrogates the law and also that the covenant was never in effect anyway. Again, basic Christian doctrine.

This is your belief, but it isn't in the bible.

Sure it is. It's the means by which the nations have come to faith in the God of the Jews.

That's great, but it's not in the bible.

And yet you ignore the text, as usual.

I answered plainly. Why you don't like the answer is unreasonable.

Your "plain answer" is to ignore the plain text.

The captivity was an actual exile, as the bible plainly states.

Yes I know. It's both.

Again, not what the bible says.

Slaughtered who for what? Disagreeing?

No, but that's how it started. I was referring to the vile and vicious way the Innocent was treated.

Read some Jewish history. Innocent Jews were treated in vile and vicious ways. Oftentimes by Christians.

I'm not ignoring the rest of the verses. They're related to Jer.31:30, which is related to  Eze.18, so the belief that all Jews are Gods' people isn't true.

All Jews are under the Sinai covenant. All that means is that God has higher expectations of us. Funny how you seem to think it means something else. Amos 3:2 “You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your sins.”

It all means what it says. Believers know what caused their bondage.

Does nothing in the bible mean what it says?

[Fenris]

Be not overly wicked, and be not a fool; why should you die before your time? Ecc.7:17

He will yet fill your mouth with laughter, and your lips with a shout of joy. Job 8

[journeyman]

And yet people do it.

That was my point.

This doesn't answer the question at all. Explain it to me like I'm 5. How does  Judaism disagree with basic all other human doctrine?

Other doctrine serves another god, or no god, but not the only God.

They're the opposite. Jews are persecuted because they're wrong but Christians are persecuted because they're right?

No, they're not the opposite. I asked you to cite an example where you believe Jesus contradicted the scriptures. Whoever said he did is mistaken.

But this is an as of yet unfulfilled messianic prophecy. How can you boast of God's goondess to Israel for an event that hasn't occurred?

It hasn't occured (and  hasn't continued) to you because you don't recognize the new covenant as I do.
The scriptures are loaded with belief in life everlasting, as the Messiah taught...and proved.
Furthermore, after reading the OT I ask you, When hasn't Gods' goodness been extended to Israel? What is that you think God is going to do with gentiles in the future.....that he isn't doing with me now?

Why? The Koran exists, Islam is also based on Judaism. Does that mean that Mohammed was correct?

Islam isn't based on Judaism, because Mohammed contradicted the scriptures where God told Abraham to sacrifice his only son and contradicted the Jews who testified of Messiahs resurrection. As I've already said, the old and new testament writers weren't lying, or deceived.

We actually don't know who penned the NT. Or when. Or where.

I wasted some time in the past on that silly argument. We won't go there.

Just because some movement is "of God" doesn't mean that it's correct or true. Assyria was the "rod of God's anger" even though they were idolatrous mass murderers.

So you're equating King Messiahs' teachings with idolatry and mass murderers? Fyi, he taught the two great commandments, from which all others flow.
I have a habit of talking to strangers as if I've known then all my life, like family. I would never have a problem with telling one my siblings (regardless of age) to cut the crap. Just last week, I had a serious conversation with my older sister and at one point told her to get her head out of her rear end. She didn't agree, but wasn't offended by my remark, which was just an expression of exasperation.
 

You have repeatedly said that things are "obvious" as though that is an answer to a question. It's not.

And again, it's obvious to anyone who recognizes Gods' new covenant with Israel,

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.....For David speaketh concerning him.....Therefore let all the house of Israel know....For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.. Act.2:16,25,36,39

Yes. They're returning to the land of Israel. It says that in the plain text.  You don't get to say "I don't like this verse in the bible, so I'm pretending it isn't there".

I didn't ignore it. You don't recognize what I'm saying to you. Rachels' sorroww because her children are no more.....can only be turned to joy by her dead children returning. I don't know why you oppose this point, or would delay agreeing with me about it if you find no problem with it.

But the bible doesn't say it's symbolic. It says these are actual things that the people under the covenant are expected to do. You're can't simultaneously argue that there's a "new covenant" that abrogates the law and also that the covenant was never in effect anyway. Again, basic Christian doctrine.

It's the way Peter came to understand what God said to him. 

That's great, but it's not in the bible.

I'm here talking to you about a gentile telling a Jew how great his God is because of the long awaited Messiah, which all the gentiles first heard from the Jews. That's in the Bible. I wish you could see what's going on here.

Read some Jewish history. Innocent Jews were treated in vile and vicious ways. Oftentimes by Christians.

Why don't you read what the Messiah said and then, stop confusing those who believe what he said with those who don't.

All Jews are under the Sinai covenant. All that means is that God has higher expectations of us. Funny how you seem to think it means something else. Amos 3:2 “You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your sins.”

I don't think it means something else. I just showed why Israel
is corrected for sin, not condemned.

[journeyman]

He will yet fill your mouth with laughter, and your lips with a shout of joy. Job 8

I sure hope he'll fill Docs' mouth with laughter, because his prime didn't last long.

[Fenris]

Other doctrine serves another god, or no god, but not the only God.

That makes no sense. How does having another faith disagree with "all other human doctrine"? You may not have noticed, but a majority of the human race is not Christian.

No, they're not the opposite.

Saying that Jews are persecuted because they're wrong but Christians are persecuted because they're right is the opposite. Maybe Christians are persecuted because they're wrong and Jew are persecuted because they're right. Isn't that also possible?

I asked you to cite an example where you believe Jesus contradicted the scriptures. Whoever said he did is mistaken.

I'm not talking about Jesus, I'm talking about Christians. Christians do not follow the bible's laws, and Jews do. See?

But this is an as of yet unfulfilled messianic prophecy. How can you boast of God's goondess to Israel for an event that hasn't occurred?

It hasn't occured (and  hasn't continued) to you because you don't recognize the new covenant as I do.

So then you actually can't boast of God's goodness t Israel, because it hasn't happened yet. Finally, a point we agree on. This is progress.

The scriptures are loaded with belief in life everlasting

The point is debatable.

, as the Messiah taught...and proved.

You mean by coming back from the dead, but only to his closest disciples?

Furthermore, after reading the OT I ask you, When hasn't Gods' goodness been extended to Israel? What is that you think God is going to do with gentiles in the future.....that he isn't doing with me now?

God's promises are primarily to Israel, not the nations of the world. Gathered exiles, rebuilt temple, and so on.

Islam isn't based on Judaism,

You really need to read more. It most certainly is.

because Mohammed contradicted the scriptures where God told Abraham to sacrifice his only son and contradicted the Jews who testified of Messiahs resurrection.

Jews also don't believe that Jesus was resurrected, I guess their religion also isn't based on Judaism. 

As I've already said, the old and new testament writers weren't lying, or deceived.

That's a statement of faith, not fact.

We actually don't know who penned the NT. Or when. Or where.

I wasted some time in the past on that silly argument. We won't go there.

No, let's go there. Who wrote the NT? Seems important.

So you're equating King Messiahs' teachings with idolatry and mass murderers?

But worshipping a man is idolatry, for Jews at least. And some Christians carried out mass murder.

I have a habit of talking to strangers as if I've known then all my life, like family. I would never have a problem with telling one my siblings (regardless of age) to cut the crap. Just last week, I had a serious conversation with my older sister and at one point told her to get her head out of her rear end. She didn't agree, but wasn't offended by my remark, which was just an expression of exasperation.

It sounds like you need to work on your patience. And politeness.
 

You have repeatedly said that things are "obvious" as though that is an answer to a question. It's not.

And again, it's obvious to anyone who recognizes Gods' new covenant with Israel,

Amazing that Israel itself doesn't recognize this "new covenant". It's as if in the end of days the Jews will be proven wrong and the gentiles correct.

]I didn't ignore it. You don't recognize what I'm saying to you. Rachels' sorroww because her children are no more.....can only be turned to joy by her dead children returning. I don't know why you oppose this point, or would delay agreeing with me about it if you find no problem with it.

She's crying for the exiles. That's why God promises her "... your work will be rewarded...They will return from the land of the enemy." Words mean things.

But the bible doesn't say it's symbolic. It says these are actual things that the people under the covenant are expected to do. You're can't simultaneously argue that there's a "new covenant" that abrogates the law and also that the covenant was never in effect anyway. Again, basic Christian doctrine.

It's the way Peter came to understand what God said to him. 

Where? Again, you can't simultaneously argue that there's a "new covenant" that abrogates the law and also that the covenant was never in effect anyway.

I'm here talking to you about a gentile telling a Jew how great his God is because of the long awaited Messiah, which all the gentiles first heard from the Jews. That's in the Bible. I wish you could see what's going on here.

If the long waited messiah has come, why have Jews been in exile the last 2000 years? Where's the rebuilt temple? Where the universal peace and knowledge of God? These are all things that the messiah was supposed to bring, yet they have not happened.

Read some Jewish history. Innocent Jews were treated in vile and vicious ways. Oftentimes by Christians.

Why don't you read what the Messiah said and then, stop confusing those who believe what he said with those who don't.

Again with this double standard. So when Jesus is treated in vile ways, it is significant, but when Jews are treated in vile ways, sometimes by the very followers of Jesus, you sweep it under the rug.

I don't think it means something else. I just showed why Israel is corrected for sin, not condemned.

How about everyone else? Also corrected for sin, or nah?