The Beast from the Earth in Revelation 13:11

[Oseas]

"I must say by revelation..."

Oh, my!

Yes, the Word is GOD. Here's the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass;...

Aren't you of them?

[RabbiKnife]

So how is your "revelation" any better, qualitatively or objectively, than my "revelation?"

I say that the "beast" has already done his worst and has been dead some 1900+ years.  I say that, by "revelation," of course.  Some of the original hearers of that prophesy saw it come true in their midst.

[Oseas]

So how is your "revelation" any better, qualitatively or objectively, than my "revelation?"

You are saying that, I didn't.

I say that the "beast" has already done his worst and has been dead some 1900+ years.  I say that, by "revelation," of course.  Some of the original hearers of that prophesy saw it come true in their midst.

My post is about two satanic Beasts of Revelation 13:v.1-9 and the ruthless Beast of earth-Revelation 13:v.11-18, not about your dead "beast".

[RabbiKnife]

The beasts of Revelation 13 were fulfilled in the 1st century.  That is my interpretation of Rev 13.

There is no future "beast" in relation to end times.  That is my interpretation of Rev 13.

I understand that you differ with that interpretation, which was, historically, the accepted interpretation for most of church history.

You are, throughout your posts, claiming that your interpretation of the Apocalypse, the unveiling, is superior to any other interpretation because it is given by "revelation."

You have an interpretation that differs from mine and from that of many others.  The entire book of the Apocalypse is clearly given by revelation, i.e., by inspiration of God; however, no Scripture is subject to private interpretation, nor are interpretations given by some "Spirit of revelation."

The Apocalypse is not a secret or sealed book, other than that John was instructed exactly what to say and what not to say.  The first century readers knew exactly what the book meant, and what they were supposed to do about it.

We are to take encouragement from the Apocalypse, in the superiority of Jesus, in the reality that we, the Church, are the City of God, the Bride, the New Jerusalem where God dwells, and that Jesus is neither concerned with nor surprised by anything.

We are not to live in fear of beasts or dragons or antiChrists or plagues or famines.  The only thing for which to prepare, whether that day is today or a gazillion years from now, is the ultimate end of time and our entry into eternity.

And no, there are no Popes in the Apocalypse.

[Athanasius]

You are saying that, I didn't.

If you're saying your understanding of the text has been divinely revealed to you (revelation), then that understanding is de facto superior to all others, because it's divinely revealed, i.e., the - a? - way the text ought to be understood.

Do be careful with such claims, if that's what you're saying.

[Oseas]

The beasts of Revelation 13 were fulfilled in the 1st century.  That is my interpretation of Rev 13.

There is no future "beast" in relation to end times.  That is my interpretation of Rev 13.

I understand that you differ with that interpretation, which was, historically, the accepted interpretation for most of church history.

You are, throughout your posts, claiming that your interpretation of the Apocalypse, the unveiling, is superior to any other interpretation because it is given by "revelation."

What I have learned since I was a boy (my parents were believers when I was born) is that the Scripture explains the Scriptures as a whole, from Genesis to Revelation. I work by/through/with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD-John 1:v.1- , the invisible GOD. Great mystery.

The Word of GOD says that "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him. (Honestly I love Him, I love His Word.)  But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of GOD-1 Corinthians 2:v.9-10.

If, yes, If the interpretations I have posted or will post with the help of GOD are "superior to any other interpretations" as you said, then it is not from me but from GOD because the Word is GOD. Praised be OUR GOD.

You have an interpretation that differs from mine and from that of many others.  The entire book of the Apocalypse is clearly given by revelation, i.e., by inspiration of God; however, no Scripture is subject to private interpretation, nor are interpretations given by some "Spirit of revelation."

But God ha revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God.
See you; you say "no Scripture is subject to private interpretation", but it is not you who are saying, I mean, it is not of your own, it is  GOD speaking through you, therefore, I agree with you because it is the Word of GOD, as is written in 2Peter 1:v.20, right?   You also said that "The entire book of the Apocalypse is clearly given by revelation, i.e., by inspiration of God;", it is true and I must agree with you, because the book of Revelation yet sealed with seven seals was with GOD, the Father, and the seven seals only was opened after 65 years when JESUS ascended to Heaven after His crucifixion. 

The Apocalypse is not a secret or sealed book, other than that John was instructed exactly what to say and what not to say.  The first century readers knew exactly what the book meant, and what they were supposed to do about it.

What I said is that Revelation was a sealed book while was with GOD until 65 years after JESUS's ascension. After JESUS have broken the seven seals  It was the person of the angel of our LORD who dictated the content of the book to John. JESUS sent his angel and signified the content of the book by his angel unto his servant John, and to us too, course-Revelation 1:v.1.

We are to take encouragement from the Apocalypse, in the superiority of Jesus, in the reality that we, the Church, are the City of God, the Bride, the New Jerusalem where God dwells, and that Jesus is neither concerned with nor surprised by anything.

What I know is that our Lord JESUS , around the year 95 AD, was concerned with His body in the earth represented by His Church (seven Churches of Asia) which were threatened by the spiritual condition of weakness of the angels of the Churches, five of them were spiritually fell, in so bad and sad spiritual conditions and of weaknesses. 

We are not to live in fear of beasts or dragons or antiChrists or plagues or famines.  The only thing for which to prepare, whether that day is today or a gazillion years from now, is the ultimate end of time and our entry into eternity.

I work with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. What does the Word of GOD say? Psalm 91:v.1-7
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

And no, there are no Popes in the Apocalypse.

You are saying that because your thinking is from a human perspective, not from GOD’s perspective.

[Athanasius]

You are saying that because your thinking is from a human perspective, not from GOD’s perspective.

What was it Paul said?

Galatians 4:6 Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

Indeed.

RK's view, and this goes for any view that isn't concordant with yours, is not automatically or necessarily the result of thinking 'from a human perspective'. The suggestion that those who aren't in agreement with you either don't love the Lord as much as you do, or are human in their thinking, is inappropriate.

So carefully consider how you phrase what you want to say going forward. No more RCC bashing, no more conclusions like the one in question, and no further equivocations between your understanding and revelation. That last one is really important, by the way.

Psalm 91, no less.

[Oseas]

If you're saying your understanding of the text has been divinely revealed to you (revelation), then that understanding is de facto superior to all others, because it's divinely revealed, i.e., the - a? - way the text ought to be understood.

Do be careful with such claims, if that's what you're saying.

Greetings in Christ JESUS

Thank you for your kind words

I work with/through/by the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.

1 Corinthians 12:v.3 to 11

... No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit. (Who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person likeness the Word made flesh-JESUS- when GOD sent Him here).

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of lords


 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?1 Corinthians 14:v.8

           

                               When The Trumpet Of The Lord Shall Sound

[Athanasius]

I work with/through/by the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.

Yes, you've said. This does not guarantee that every, or even any, interpretation you propose is in fact from God and not your own understanding. Nor does it justify you in claiming that the view of others comes from 'human thinking', as if they, unlike you, are not working 'with/through/by the Word of GOD'. (Or, that they must not be if they disagree with you.)

I think I understand what you're trying to say: attributing to God and not claiming as your own. Fair enough -- if. Still, be careful in your speech and be more responsible with your claims.

Sincerely,
The gifts of knowledge, faith, discernment and wisdom

[RandyPNW]

Some of this is certainly speculative, and I don't claim to have special knowledge--just thoughts or opinions.

I see really that you claim, as you said, only your thoughts or opinions in speculative ways, based in theories of storytellers and not in revelations by the Spirit of prophecy. As you know, and certainly will agree, the testimony of our Lord JESUS Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Revelation 19:v.10.     

You sound puffed up, feeling "special?" It's always best to "keep your head down," and remain humble. God exalts the humble. But He humbles those who exalt themselves.

Interpretation is not the role of the prophet, but rather, of the teacher. If you are claiming to interpret Scriptures by the "spirit of prophecy," you're not being honest with yourself. Paul said, "study to show yourself approved by God"--not, prophesy the Scriptures without any care to actually learn first.

If you aren't willing to consider a brother's viewpoint, and instead rely only on yourself and the "spirit of prophecy," then you are refusing to submit to a realistic education, and reject the Scripture that says, "submit yourselves to one another," and "consider each other better than yourselves."

I hate to be "preachy," but I've lived a long time and have had to learn these kinds of lessons for myself. Humility is a great virtue to develop.

Once I know you have respect for those you wish to discuss with we can share properly?

[RandyPNW]

My feeling is that the Sea Beast is the Antichrist over European Civilization, and the Land Beast is an apostate Pope in Europe. Surely, the time is short.

The topic is about the Beast of earth(Rev. 13:v.11), but with regards the Sea Beast you refer(Rev. 13:v.1), I think you know that sea means  waters; the angel of the LORD said to John that the waters "which he sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues"-Rev.17:v.15.  It was around year 95AD. John said: I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. By revelation we can see that this Beast of "sea" rose out up of the midst of the peoples and nations, and multitudes of all tongues, therefore, this Beast is a Gentile Beast.  Israel had already been banned in the year 70AD or 25 years ago of their land, and was spread around the Earth,many fled to Rome.   

How is this a response to what I said? I said I thought the Sea Beast is the Antichrist who is to come to preside over European Civilization. And you agree or disagree? You initially said my view is "Man's opinion--not revelation," and now you agree with me that the Sea Beast is a "Gentile Beast?" Or, are you distinguishing this "Gentile Beast" from what I called "European Civilization?" European Civilization is also a "Gentile Beast" that arises out of many nations.

As I said earlier, "Mystery Babylon" is said to be a "mystery." That means, it is a euphemism for the city of Rome. John couldn't come out and say "Rome." He was a prisoner of Rome. Bad-mouthing Rome would get him killed. So he had to tell a kind of parable, with riddles.

Brother, you should remember that the Book of Revelation was a sealed or secret Book of GOD the Father. John only wrote what the Angel of our Lord JESUS commanded him to write. Rev. 1:v.1 - Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John. Forget your conjectures above, stay only in the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. GOD is Truth.

No, I don't believe I should "know that!" The 7 sealed book was opened and revealed. The book of Revelation indicates it is a *revelation*--not a secret. It was to reveal things to the Church--not hide them!

The 2 riddles are a turn on the literal interpretation of 10 kings in Antichrist's European confederation. There will be a literal set of 10 kings out of European Civilization. 3 kings will be removed by Antichrist, leaving only 7 kings remaining. 10 horns and 7 heads, or 10 states and 7 leaders, with Antichrist presiding over them all.

Brother, you should verify if what you say is in accord what was revealed to John by our Lord JESUS and was showed by His angel to John. It is written that the Beast that John saw was risen up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his (7) heads the name of blasphemy. Even the ancient ROOTS of the Beast was revealed, which was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the Dragon gave him his Power, and his Seat, and great Authority.

We all know the Beast had leopard, bear, and lion characteristics. These characteristics had been used in ancient times by Daniel to depict certain characteristics present in the kingdoms of Babylon, Greece, and Persia. The fact they are used indicates they once again point to the 4th Kingdom, Rome, who succeeds them all. And Rome is, I believe, European Civilization, which emerged out of the ancient Roman Empire. They contain all of these characteristics, suggesting violent aggression having speed, power, and ferocity.

THE SEVEN (7) HEADS OF THE BEAST OF SEA
The seven heads are 7 mountains, on which the woman (the RCC) sitteth. And are also seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. (42 months, say I based in Scriptures)

The TEN (10) HORNS OF THE BEAST OF SEA
THE ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour (a short space, 42 months, say I based in Scriptures) with the Beast. as says the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.

By revelation I must say that today or in the current time, six kings have already fallen, no more5 fallen, because the time has come a long way and the sixth "king" has died too.

You say this by "revelation?" Really? Do you know the difference between your own thoughts and divine revelation? Christians often get these things confused! And that's a real danger in the church.

We should be real careful claiming God is putting His seal of approval on a particular interpretation. It is not just important to be "spiritual" in interpreting--it is just as important to be true to the text, and honest about how sure we are.

Yes, about the literal 7 kings, John was "speaking of Rome" as you said. Now, six are fallen, Now only the last one is missing, the seventh. (I go to reveal unto you and all: Scriptures are revealing here a lineage of 7 Popes. As I said, 6 have already fallen. The last must be known in this decade: Will be he manifest himself as Paul VII? We will see)

This is just one theory--not a divine "revelation!"

The Antichrist Empire that will be established in this current decade, will be established by the TWO Man Beasts, the Man Beast of sea -the Papacy- a Gentile Beast, and the Man Beast of the earth, who has two horns like a lamb (a false lamb, a false messiah, an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah)and he spake as a dragon.

I can't say whether any of this will be fulfilled in this decade or not. Perhaps. Perhaps not. The point is, we were told not to focus on "times and seasons, which are in the Father's hands." Our duty is to focus on present ministry, leaving the times and seasons to God.

Such predictions by self-proclaimed "revelation" is a blight upon the Church, and you should grow out of this. We've all been puffed up at one time or another. We can't handle direct contact with God without getting puffed up. It's in the nature of our sinful humanity. Over time, perhaps, we can learn humility. Watchman Nee taught that we can learn this through a process of allowing the Lord to "break us." It doesn't come easy. True spirituality is hard.

And he will exercise all the power of the FIRST Beast -the Papacy- before him, and will cause the earth-earth here is Israel- and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST Beast -the Papacy-, whose deadly wound was healed. (was healed by the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah, Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, Who will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God will sit in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God).

So you think/"know" that the 1st Beast is the Papacy, the "earth" is Israel, and the Great Whore is Rome? That's a legitimate theory, but it is only a theory. I've given you my speculation on it, and it also is based on the Scriptures. The 1st Beast had 7 heads and 10 horns, which seems to relate to the 10 horns of the Antichrist in Dan 7. They emerge from the 4th Beast, which appears to be the Roman Kingdom. And so, I've identified it as European Civilization, which has had a long history of the Holy Roman Empire. It was the nation that had God's temporal Kingdom passed onto it from Israel. But like Israel, it is now apostasizing from the rules of that Kingdom.

The Man Beast false messiah will heal the mortal wound of ONE of the SEVEN heads of the Man Beast of sea because will give his Power, and his Throne in Jerusalem, and great Authority for 42 months -the FIRST half of the week (of years), and both will make a deal to build a religious and satanic universal kingdom yet in this decade-Revelation 13:v.11 to 18 - even the Jews in the FIRST half of the week will worship the Pope enthroned in Jerusalem by the false messiah, the future ruler of Israel and guide of the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Judaism. In fact, an alliance between iron and clay now in the END of the times-Daniel 2.  Many things could still be said about the MOST SATANIC DECADE in which we are living, that is the last. GET READY,

As I said before, there is no basis, as I see it, in having a 7 year "Week," since the 70th Week of Daniel was fulfilled immediately after the 69th Week, which was in the time before Christ's earthly ministry. So to divide up a 7 year period into two halves appears to have no basis in Scriptural reality.

We could discuss what we think that "wound of the Beast" is, but I have to know you're discussing this in good faith--not by self-proclaimed "revelation" from God! It's a blessing to read and to live by what is in the book of Revelation. It is a guide to living in the endtimes.

As was revealed to Daniel, Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Daniel 12:v.12

As I've said elsewhere, the 1335 days relates to the time of Antiochus 4. His reign of terror ended after 1290 days, and it may be that it took awhile for the news of his demise to reach Israel.

May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection

Amen

Thank you. May the Lord bless all of us who pursue Him in sincerity and in genuine humility.

[Oseas]

I work with/through/by the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.

Yes, you've said. This does not guarantee that every, or even any, interpretation you propose is in fact from God and not your own understanding. Nor does it justify you in claiming that the view of others comes from 'human thinking', as if they, unlike you, are not working 'with/through/by the Word of GOD'. (Or, that they must not be if they disagree with you.)

I think I understand what you're trying to say: attributing to God and not claiming as your own. Fair enough -- if. Still, be careful in your speech and be more responsible with your claims.

Sincerely,
The gifts of knowledge, faith, discernment and wisdom

I enjoyed very much your post. Praised be our Lord Jesus Christ.
By the words of your post I can discern, by the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD- that you are manifesting within /according Scriptures that say:  "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets (false preachers of the Word of GOD) are gone out into the world"-1John 4:v.1.

"No lie is of the Truth,  I have not written unto you because ye know not the Truth, but because ye know it-1John 2:v.21.   If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater-1John 5:v.9.

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life-1John 5:v.19-20.

Honestly, I do not know word more powerful than the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD; Great mystery, no?  As is written, "12 The word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a DISCERNER of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we must render an account-Hebrews 4:v.12-13.

In fact, sometimes Oseas takes a look of various Scriptures with some shared thoughts.

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him) and LORD of lords

[Athanasius]

You say this by "revelation?" Really? Do you know the difference between your own thoughts and divine revelation? Christians often get these things confused! And that's a real danger in the church.

We should be real careful claiming God is putting His seal of approval on a particular interpretation. It is not just important to be "spiritual" in interpreting--it is just as important to be true to the text, and honest about how sure we are.

I think what's going on here is culture + ESL (possibly) + theological positions that don't match our own, especially epistemologically. For example, Oseas seems to be operating from the understanding that if one loves the Word dearly enough, prays without ceasing, asks for understanding, and so forth, then it will be given. Thus, the understanding such a person arrives at is surely either revealed, or all too human and in need of further dedication to the Lord. In other words, eventually and always considered to be revealed. It's not possible for the Christian to pray for understanding, then rely on their own understanding to interpret.

Or who knows, maybe I'm totally off base. The question is what ought one do with that, if it's the case? The lack of a shared cultural/theological/philosophical understanding won't lead to edifying discourse. The 4th and 21st centuries don't pair well together.

[RandyPNW]

I think that yes, many Christians honestly believe that having a spiritual experience with God entitles them to claim the "anointing" on virtually anything they do, including interpreting Scriptures. If they point their finger into the Bible, and out comes a verse that seems applicable, we have a legitimate case of "automatic writing."

Who knows? Maybe God uses "happy accidents" sometimes? But even if He does, it isn't wise to apply presumptive guesswork and not hard work studying.

Thanks, there are indeed reasons for this. I'm not going to give excuses other than admit "we're all too human!"

[IMINXTC]

ASIDE: Considering the rationale behind such institutions as infant baptism for the removal of "original sin," per example, one cannot but warily suspect the formation of doctrines - devised after the NT- intended to define and classify elements of the human condition since the fall.
Will attempt to merge and touch on these related topics and invite insight in upcoming thread.