The Beast from the Earth in Revelation 13:11

[RandyPNW]

 So one might well ask why the beast from the bottomless pit is in Jerusalem a few days before the return of Christ and resurrection.

 Read Joel chapter 2, Rev.chapter 9. and tremble.

Col.

I shouldn't think the Beast from the Bottomless Pit is in Jerusalem a *few days* before the Return of Christ.

The angel of the Abyss, who has fallen from the sky to the earth, was given the key to release "locusts" from the Abyss (ch. 9).
The beast comes up out of the Abyss (ch. 11 and 17).
The 1st Beast out of the Sea (ch. 13).
The 2nd Beast out of the Earth (ch. 13).

This "angel of the Abyss appears in the Revelation before the Beast is detailed as Satan (ch. 12), the Antichrist (ch. 13), and the False Prophet (ch. 13). It is also before John describes the Beast riding upon the Harlot, which is Rome.

It appears to me that this "Angel of the Abyss" is Satan himself, who fell from heaven at his fall from God, and who is, in a sense, confined to earthly activities. This is his "Abyss," which is a limited imprisonment of his full activities on earth.

Satan releases the Antichrist into full activity at the beginning of the 3.5 years of Antichrist's reign. The Abyss is opened up, allowing demonic torment for 5 months, among other things that lead to persecution of the Church.

This ends with Satan being thrown back into imprisonment, along with the Beast who is overthrown by Christ at his 2nd Coming. At least, this is how I see it.

[col]

 The star of Rev ch 9 is a man, the leader of Babylon,who returns to his former state of--

 Eze 32:23  Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living. 

Read Joel chapter 2.

Note that there is complete ruin of the churches before that occurs---

Rev 8:12  And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. 

 

[RandyPNW]

 The star of Rev ch 9 is a man, the leader of Babylon,who returns to his former state of--

 Eze 32:23  Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living.

This prophecy is speaking of ancient prophecy, and about their destiny in the grave. It is about the humiliation of once-proud leaders. It has nothing to do with the endtimes, nor does it say so.

Read Joel chapter 2.

Note that there is complete ruin of the churches before that occurs---

We, ie European Civilization, have been in a state of apostasy since the Middle Ages. The Catholic Church turned to humanism and to ceremonial tradition. The Protestants brought reformation, but soon turned to intellectualism, and some turned to liberal theology. Ultimately, we have former Christian nations completely abandoning any pretense at true spiritual Christianity. Only the "love and tolerance" of Christianity have been retained, but it is a false love and tolerance.

Paul speaks of the endtimes apostasy, leading to the Antichrist. Yes, Christianity falls just as Israel fell. Nothing is new under the sun.

Rev 8:12  And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

[col]

Randy

Paul speaks of the endtimes apostasy, leading to the Antichrist. Yes, Christianity falls just as Israel fell. Nothing is new under the sun.

 How so true.

Col

[greenonions]

People are still worshipping all kinds of idols at the sixth trumpet, and I don't recall the beast forbidding the worship of other gods. The beast does blaspheme the true God (Rev. 13:6).

Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, didn’t repent of the works of their hands, that they wouldn’t worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can’t see, hear, or walk.

Babylon is destroyed by the 10 kings who give their authority to the beast (Rev.17:12-13, 17) and the minister of this beast orders the execution of anyone who refuses to worship his image (Rev.13:15).

It makes no sense for the 10 kings under the beast, who is under Satan, to want Babylon destroyed, unless it's a deceptive ploy by the devil to make people think they're worshipping the true God.

I have a pet theory: Babylon rebels against the beast. I think Babylon is the future Jerusalem that is trampled by the Gentiles for 42 months, but then the people rebel, then all nations are gathered together to attack it. Jesus saves the people who flee by the Mount of Olives but the city is destroyed.

[journeyman]

I have a pet theory: Babylon rebels against the beast. I think Babylon is the future Jerusalem that is trampled by the Gentiles for 42 months, but then the people rebel, then all nations are gathered together to attack it. Jesus saves the people who flee by the Mount of Olives but the city is destroyed.

I don't know why exactly, but I think who gets trampled are believers and the 42 months is symbolic of the ministry of our Lord in our lives.

[RandyPNW]

People are still worshipping all kinds of idols at the sixth trumpet, and I don't recall the beast forbidding the worship of other gods. The beast does blaspheme the true God (Rev. 13:6).

Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, didn’t repent of the works of their hands, that they wouldn’t worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can’t see, hear, or walk.

Babylon is destroyed by the 10 kings who give their authority to the beast (Rev.17:12-13, 17) and the minister of this beast orders the execution of anyone who refuses to worship his image (Rev.13:15).

It makes no sense for the 10 kings under the beast, who is under Satan, to want Babylon destroyed, unless it's a deceptive ploy by the devil to make people think they're worshipping the true God.

I have a pet theory: Babylon rebels against the beast. I think Babylon is the future Jerusalem that is trampled by the Gentiles for 42 months, but then the people rebel, then all nations are gathered together to attack it. Jesus saves the people who flee by the Mount of Olives but the city is destroyed.

I don't know this to be fact, because the Revelation is so symbolic. But if Mystery Babylon really represents the city of Rome, or Roman Civilization, it could be that the Antichrist hates Roman Civilization in its Christianized state? Or, the Antichrist could simply destroy the city of Rome as the symbolic center of European Christianity, or even as the symbol of world Christianity?

[col]

 The star of Rev ch 9 is a man, the leader of Babylon,who returns to his former state of--

 Eze 32:23  Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living.

This prophecy is speaking of ancient prophecy, and about their destiny in the grave. It is about the humiliation of once-proud leaders. It has nothing to do with the endtimes, nor does it say so.

Read Joel chapter 2.

Note that there is complete ruin of the churches before that occurs---

We, ie European Civilization, has been in a state of apostasy since the Middle Ages. The Catholic Church turned to humanism and to ceremonial tradition. The Protestants brought reformation, but soon turned to intellectualism, and some turned to liberal theology. Ultimately, we have former Christian nations completely abandoning any pretense at true spiritual Christianity. Only the "love and tolerance" of Christianity has been retained, but it is a false love and tolerance.

Paul speaks of the endtimes apostasy, leading to the Antichrist. Yes, Christianity falls just as Israel fell. Nothing is new under the sun.

Rev 8:12  And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

 In fact the harlot of Re ch 17 is antichrist.

 Why do so many refer to the beast as being the antichrist when the beast hates the antichrists and is used by God to destroy the land of the antichrists.

 Rev 17:16  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire

Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 
Rev 18:10  Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 

Col

[RandyPNW]

No, don't think the Harlot is the Antichrist. She is described as a city, one with 7 hills. Sounds a lot like Rome.

Traditionally, one of the 2 Beasts are thought to be the Antichrist. I think the 1st Beast is not just the Antichrist, a man, but also his empire, which consists of 10 states and 7 leaders--3 of the leaders are overthrown. Just my opinion.

[col]

No, don't think the Harlot is the Antichrist. She is described as a city, one with 7 hills. Sounds a lot like Rome.

Traditionally, one of the 2 Beasts are thought to be the Antichrist. I think the 1st Beast is not just the Antichrist, a man, but also his empire, which consists of 10 states and 7 leaders--3 of the leaders are overthrown. Just my opinion.

 In year ad 30, the jews [not all jews] were of the harlot and they used the Roman beast of the time to kill Christ.

  The endtime harlot refers to the fallen of the churches [not all]and their land of whom the prophets have said are full of idols.

 According to the end of Dan ch11, the end time king of Babylon turns against the believers, when originally Babylon was for the preservation of the believers, but as in the past, when the majority of the believers turn to the world for their living, then the government becomes their punisher [the 5th trumpet} and then the whole land is destroyed in one day from without [6th trumpet] and Rev.ch18.

 

 Col

[RandyPNW]

No, don't think the Harlot is the Antichrist. She is described as a city, one with 7 hills. Sounds a lot like Rome.

Traditionally, one of the 2 Beasts are thought to be the Antichrist. I think the 1st Beast is not just the Antichrist, a man, but also his empire, which consists of 10 states and 7 leaders--3 of the leaders are overthrown. Just my opinion.

 In year ad 30, the jews [not all jews] were of the harlot and they used the Roman beast of the time to kill Christ.

  The endtime harlot refers to the fallen of the churches [not all]and their land of whom the prophets have said are full of idols.

 According to the end of Dan ch11, the end time king of Babylon turns against the believers, when originally Babylon was for the preservation of the believers, but as in the past, when the majority of the believers turn to the world for their living, then the government becomes their punisher [the 5th trumpet} and then the whole land is destroyed in one day from without [6th trumpet] and Rev.ch18.

Not to argue with you I'd just like to tell you how I view it. I see Dan 11 as referring, in the last section, to Antiochus 4, and not to endtime Babylon, nor to the Antichrist. Immediately following Dan 11 Daniel speaks of the Great Tribulation of the Jewish People, which was a punishment upon Jewish unbelievers beginning in 70 AD.

The Harlot is, as I said, Rome, because Rev 17 describes her as a city. Jerusalem has also been called a harlot, but in this case, the context seems to describe Rome. Two hints are given as to who this Mystery Harlot is, and both of them point to Rome.

1) the 7 kings provide an illusion to 7 hills, representing the 7 hills of Rome
2) the 7 kings also provide a succession of kingdoms beginning with Egypt and leading to the 6th kingdom which was then present. that also is Rome.

The endtimes state of Rome is European Civilization, and suggests a 7th kingdom. The 8th kingdom will be the Antichristian Kingdom, which assumes power over the 7 kings.

[col]

 

Not to argue with you I'd just like to tell you how I view it. I see Dan 11 as referring, in the last section, to Antiochus 4, and not to endtime Babylon, nor to the Antichrist. Immediately following Dan 11 Daniel speaks of the Great Tribulation of the Jewish People, which was a punishment upon Jewish unbelievers beginning in 70 AD.

Dan 11:36  And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 
Dan 11:37  Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 
Dan 11:38  But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 
Dan 11:39  Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain. 

 compare with--

Rev 13:5  And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 
Rev 13:6  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 
Rev 13:7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 
Rev 13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 

Act 7:48  Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 
Act 7:49  Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 

Col

[RandyPNW]

 

Not to argue with you I'd just like to tell you how I view it. I see Dan 11 as referring, in the last section, to Antiochus 4, and not to endtime Babylon, nor to the Antichrist. Immediately following Dan 11 Daniel speaks of the Great Tribulation of the Jewish People, which was a punishment upon Jewish unbelievers beginning in 70 AD.

Dan 11:36  And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37  Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38  But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Dan 11:39  Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

 compare with--

Rev 13:5  And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Act 7:48  Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49  Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Col

Trouble is, Dan 11 is  lot of history leading up to the Great Tribulation of the Jewish People, which began immediately after they rejected Messiah and lost both their temple and their capital city. Endtimes prophecy does not fit in Dan 11.

On the other hand, compare the last section of Dan 11 with what we know about Antiochus 4, and it fits like a glove. Some get confused, because some of it is reiteration and elaboration. But each detail fits the actual history of Antiochus 4.

[col]

[/quote]

Trouble is, Dan 11 is  lot of history leading up to the Great Tribulation of the Jewish People, which began immediately after they rejected Messiah and lost both their temple and their capital city. Endtimes prophecy does not fit in Dan 11.

On the other hand, compare the last section of Dan 11 with what we know about Antiochus 4, and it fits like a glove. Some get confused, because some of it is reiteration and elaboration. But each detail fits the actual history of Antiochus 4.
[/quote]

 No.

It does not fit like a glove, just look at it.

Dan 11:36  And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 
Dan 11:37  Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 
Dan 11:38  But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 
Dan 11:39  Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain. 


2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 
2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 
2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 
2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 
2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 

[RandyPNW]

No.

It does not fit like a glove, just look at it.

Dan 11:36  And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37  Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38  But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Dan 11:39  Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.


2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Antiochus acted on behalf of a "foreign god," namely the god of the Romans, or Jupiter. Antichrist will act on his own behalf, under the power of Satan--not a "foreign god."

Antiochus did promise rewards for the Hellenistic Jews, who abandoned orthodoxy under the Law. And he did establish military fortifications in major cities like Jerusalem, where he set up a palatial tent.