BibleForums Christian Message Board
General Category => In General => Topic started by: ProDeo on January 19, 2026, 04:37:00 AM
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https://edition.cnn.com/2026/01/19/politics/nato-division-trump-greenland-threat-analysis
The end of 80 years friendship ?
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It won't happen, because the European countries need the US in NATO to hold back the Russians.
Having said that, Trump is a blowhard and a buffoon and shouldn't be acting out in this way.
This isn't even my biggest complaint against the man, either. His public declaration for the Iranian people to keep fighting for their freedom because "help is coming" and then not sending help while tens of thousands are murdered in the streets will certainly go down in history as one of the biggest betrayals. It's in line with what happened in Munich in 1938, in my opinion.
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https://edition.cnn.com/2026/01/19/politics/nato-division-trump-greenland-threat-analysis
The end of 80 years friendship ?
Talking about it ending is just pretending the US itself isn't already finished.
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Talking about it ending is just pretending the US itself isn't already finished.
Well why are American soldiers in harm's way to protect a continent of Europeans that won't protect themselves? Not just from the Russians, but by taking in millions of immigrants who are opposed to their way of life, who hate Europe and America and Israel, and who are influencing European politics to reflect those viewpoints?
I have even more contempt for the EU and the European governments than I do for Trump. At least he's looking out for us. Sure, in a goofy and egomaniacal sort of way, but still way better than what's going on in Europe.
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Talking about it ending is just pretending the US itself isn't already finished.
Well why are American soldiers in harm's way to protect a continent of Europeans that won't protect themselves? Not just from the Russians, but by taking in millions of immigrants who are opposed to their way of life, who hate Europe and America and Israel, and who are influencing European politics to reflect those viewpoints?
I have even more contempt for the EU and the European governments than I do for Trump. At least he's looking out for us. Sure, in a goofy and egomaniacal sort of way, but still way better than what's going on in Europe.
You surely don't seriously believe Trump is looking out for Americans. Honestly?
As for the EU -- whataboutism.
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"President Trump says his controversial push for U.S. control of Greenland comes after he failed to win the Nobel Peace Prize last year, adding he no longer feels obliged to think only of peace." NPR
We are way into Article 25 territory here. A health issue(?)
The reported letter stated, in part: “Considering your Country decided not to give me the Nobel Peace Prize for having stopped 8 Wars PLUS, I no longer feel an obligation to think purely of Peace, although it will always be predominant, but can now think about what is good and proper for the United States of America.”
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It won't happen, because the European countries need the US in NATO to hold back the Russians.
I am not an anti-conspiracy guy, but I can't get the thought out of my mind, this whole Greenland drama maybe is a preconceived plan to get rid of NATO.
Having said that, Trump is a blowhard and a buffoon and shouldn't be acting out in this way.
This isn't even my biggest complaint against the man, either. His public declaration for the Iranian people to keep fighting for their freedom because "help is coming" and then not sending help while tens of thousands are murdered in the streets will certainly go down in history as one of the biggest betrayals. It's in line with what happened in Munich in 1938, in my opinion.
Indeed, a terrible betrayal and maybe a missed opportunity.
What about this invitation to the Kremlin to participate in the Board of Peace? How is your and Israel reaction to that?
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You surely don't seriously believe Trump is looking out for Americans. Honestly?
Compared to what the EU is doing to their citizens? 1000%
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We are way into Article 25 territory here.
Biden was drugged up and barely conscious, and nobody invoked it for him. Welcome to the new normal.
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I am not an anti-conspiracy guy, but I can't get the thought out of my mind, this whole Greenland drama maybe is a preconceived plan to get rid of NATO.
I don't think he thinks that far ahead. I think he just has monomania about Greenland.
What about this invitation to the Kremlin to participate in the Board of Peace? How is your and Israel reaction to that?
It's a joke. He's talking about peace between Israel and the Palestinians, yet he only invited Israel after he invited many, many other countries. And he hasn't invited the Palestinians at all. It's just another ego trip for him. His failure to act in the moment in Iran will have far more drastic consequences. His inner circle is full of opportunists who are on Qatar's payroll.
And yet he's still better than Kamala. What wretched choices we were given.
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We are way into Article 25 territory here.
Biden was drugged up and barely conscious, and nobody invoked it for him. Welcome to the new normal.
""We'll see what happens." Donald Trump
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You surely don't seriously believe Trump is looking out for Americans. Honestly?
Compared to what the EU is doing to their citizens? 1000%
No, not compared to anyone. The current US admin, in and of itself.
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No, not compared to anyone. The current US admin, in and of itself.
Nothing takes place in a vacuum.
Is Trump ideal? Obviously not. He's capricious and temperamental and sometimes downright crazy. He's shaking up traditional alliances in a way that I don't approve of, even if the countries in question are deserving of some of this treatment. He's expanding executive powers and potential future Democrat presidents are drooling at what they're going to do with this newly found authority.
Is he better for America than a president Kamala would have been? Absolutely.
Is he a better leader for his country than anyone else in the western world? Also yes. And it isn't even close.
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No, not compared to anyone. The current US admin, in and of itself.
Nothing takes place in a vacuum.
Is Trump ideal? Obviously not. He's capricious and temperamental and sometimes downright crazy. He's shaking up traditional alliances in a way that I don't approve of, even if the countries in question are deserving of some of this treatment. He's expanding executive powers and potential future Democrat presidents are drooling at what they're going to do with this newly found authority.
Is he better for America than a president Kamala would have been? Absolutely.
I'm not a congresswoman. A simple "no" is fine.
Is he a better leader for his country than anyone else in the western world? Also yes. And it isn't even close.
Who is on this list of "anyone else"? I doubt they're as good as Trump is at invading another country, abducting the leader of that country, stealing and then selling oil assets, and then sending the proceeds of those sales to an offshare bank account, but I could be surprised.
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I'm not a congresswoman. A simple "no" is fine.
Why the attitude? I'm explaining my thought process, just as you are.
Who is on this list of "anyone else"?
European governments encouraging the entry of millions of racist, anti semitic seventh century barbarians who are opposed to their way of life and want to implement sharia law is not in any way "good" for the people who live in those countries.
I doubt they're as good as Trump is at invading another country, abducting the leader of that country,
Maduro isn't worth defending. He ignored his electoral loss, emptied his prisons and insane asylums and sent those people to the US, and oppresses his own people. I work in immigration law and have heard the stories from people who escaped, and it isn't pretty.
stealing and then selling oil assets, and then sending the proceeds of those sales to an offshare bank account, but I could be surprised.
Venezuela is under sanctions from most of the world. The money from oil sales has been placed in a Qatari bank to keep it out of the hands of western creditors, so that it can be sent directly to the Venezuelan people. You may agree or disagree with this, but it has a perfectly reasonable explanation.
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Why the attitude? I'm explaining my thought process, just as you are.
You're defending Donald as the best leader of any Western country by far, and this is a leader who (1) threatened to annex my country, and who has (2) targeted minorities such as myself, and who has (3) enabled the targeting of minotiries such as myself, and who (4) is quite fine to "mock" people such as myself, or even people like Joe Biden.
So, if the claim is that Donald is "the best leader of any Western country by far", I guess, deal with it.
European governments encouraging the entry of millions of racist, anti semitic seventh century barbarians who are opposed to their way of life and want to implement sharia law is not in any way "good" for the people who live in those countries.
Name names, we can talk stats.
Maduro isn't worth defending. He ignored his electoral loss, emptied his prisons and insane asylums and sent those people to the US, and oppresses his own people. I work in immigration law and have heard the stories from people who escaped, and it isn't pretty.
No one is defending Maduro.
Venezuela is under sanctions from most of the world. The money from oil sales has been placed in a Qatari bank to keep it out of the hands of western creditors, so that it can be sent directly to the Venezuelan people. You may agree or disagree with this, but it has a perfectly reasonable explanation.
That Qatari 747 is the reasonable explanation.
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You're defending Donald as the best leader of any Western country by far, and this is a leader who (1) threatened to annex my country,
Just tune him out. Everyone else is. He's not annexing anything.
and who has (2) targeted minorities such as myself,
In what way has he "targeted" you?
and who has (3) enabled the targeting of minorities such as myself,
In what way has he "enabled the targeting of minorities such as yourself"?
and who (4) is quite fine to "mock" people such as myself, or even people like Joe Biden.
Yeah, he's got a serious case of the rudes. Like I said, tune him out.
So, if the claim is that Donald is "the best leader of any Western country by far", I guess, deal with it.
Would I take him over the prime ministers who have recognized a terrorist state and refuse to protect their Jews? Who refuse to protect their own native populations? Yup.
Name names, we can talk stats.
Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Spain... the list goes on and on.
No one is defending Maduro.
Uhhh yeah, you are. "How dare US forces arrest an authoritarian leader who ignored the results of an election and has a federal indictment in US court for narco terrorism".
That Qatari 747 is the reasonable explanation.
That could explain why it's a Qatari bank specifically, but I get not keeping it in a western bank for the reasons above.
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Just tune him out. Everyone else is. He's not annexing anything.
Tune out the best leader of any Western nation? I don't think so.
In what way has he "targeted" you?
In what way has he "enabled the targeting of minorities such as yourself"?
Yeah, he's got a serious case of the rudes. Like I said, tune him out.
Tune out the best leader of any Western nation? I don't think so.
Though I'm no athlete.
Would I take him over the prime ministers who have recognized a terrorist state and refuse to protect their Jews? Who refuse to protect their own native populations? Yup.
Your problem with Mette Frederiksen is...?
Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Spain... the list goes on and on.
I named a name for you above.
Uhhh yeah, you are. "How dare US forces arrest an authoritarian leader who ignored the results of an election and has a federal indictment in US court for narco terrorism".
Sardonically criticising Donald isn't defending Maduro. Like how I'm not saying Donald is the worst Western leader, but that he isn't by far the best.
That could explain why it's a Qatari bank specifically, but I get not keeping it in a western bank for the reasons above.
Donald keeping the money in the US is suddenly going to play international ball? Of course not. No one is buying it.
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Tune out the best leader of any Western nation? I don't think so.
Then that's a choice you make.
You didn't answer my questions.
In what way has he "targeted" you?
In what way has he "enabled the targeting of minorities such as yourself"?
Your problem with Mette Frederiksen is...?
I named a name for you above.
I didn't mention Denmark, who is a bit player on the world stage.
I did mention other countries.
Sardonically criticising Donald isn't defending Maduro.
So you're okay with Maduro's arrest?
Donald keeping the money in the US is suddenly going to play international ball? Of course not. No one is buying it.
Again, this is a choice you make.
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In what way has he "targeted" you?
In what way has he "enabled the targeting of minorities such as yourself"?
I answered with the video. How about PBS? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-anti-transgender-political-ads-are-dominating-the-airwaves-this-election. I mean there's lots, and Donald's position on the LGBTQ is well known, so why are we dancing around this?
I didn't mention Denmark, who is a bit player on the world stage.
You said Donald was better than every other Western leader, so, what about Mette Frederiksen has you thinking Donald is better?
So you're okay with Maduro's arrest?
As Donald went about it? No.
Again, this is a choice you make.
Okay, we all make choices.
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If the MAGA proponants, rightists and swaths of evangelicals would only cease from declaring Trumpism as a "God-directed" movement, reason could be better applied, but it isn't. As pointed out from 2014 onward, the party has suffered gradual, self negating defeat, having started out in full power.
The US now stands in international ignomy.
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You surely don't seriously believe Trump is looking out for Americans. Honestly?
Compared to what the EU is doing to their citizens? 1000%
Last week the EU made a big trade deal with South American countries.
Yesterday a trade deal with India. No tariffs.
Europe moving away from US.
All because of that man with his big mouth spouting diarrhea over former allies.
How many friends does US has left ?
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The EU has never been a friend
Individual countries in Europe? Sure.
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Europe moving away from US.
Because they know that when push comes to shove, the US will come bail them out again. Or they hope, anyway.
All because of that man with his big mouth spouting diarrhea over former allies.
If one person talking- not doing anything, mind, but just sharing his stream of consciousness- can end an alliance, then it wasn't much to begin with.
Mind you, aside from my viewpoints as an American, as a Jew I happen to think that many of these European leaders are garbage. They don't protect their own Jews and were all jockeying for position to be the first to recognize a Palestinian terrorist state. Think about that for a minute. Their reaction to the largest murder of Jews since the Holocaust was to say "You know what? I do believe that the people who raped and pillaged and carried out mass murder need their own state."
How many friends does US has left ?
Life is not a popularity contest.
Israel is hated by most of the world for the unforgiveable crime of existing and defending itself. I don't bemoan Israel's lack of friends either. The opposite, it just shows what a fallen state the world is in.
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The EU has never been a friend
"Nations don't have friends, only interests." Lord Palmerston
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You said Donald was better than every other Western leader, so, what about Mette Frederiksen has you thinking Donald is better?
I mean this is just picking nits. You're going to pick a country with less than 6 million citizens, with no meaningful foreign or domestic policy, as an example? How about the UK or France or Spain or Germany? Major players on the world stage.
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If the MAGA proponants, rightists and swaths of evangelicals would only cease from declaring Trumpism as a "God-directed" movement, reason could be better applied, but it isn't.
I am not a MAGA proponent nor an Evangelical, nor do I believe that Trumpism is a "God directed" movement, except in the general sense that God is involved in shaping all of human history.
And I do apply reason to this situation.
The US now stands in international ignomy.
As I observed above, so does Israel. To me that says more about the world than about the United States or Israel.
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Well said.//. ^^^
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Europe moving away from US.
Because they know that when push comes to shove, the US will come bail them out again. Or they hope, anyway.
Ha ha, that is true, not because Europe counts on that, but because US can't resist :)
All because of that man with his big mouth spouting diarrhea over former allies.
If one person talking- not doing anything, mind, but just sharing his stream of consciousness- can end an alliance, then it wasn't much to begin with.
Mind you, aside from my viewpoints as an American, as a Jew I happen to think that many of these European leaders are garbage. They don't protect their own Jews and were all jockeying for position to be the first to recognize a Palestinian terrorist state. Think about that for a minute. Their reaction to the largest murder of Jews since the Holocaust was to say "You know what? I do believe that the people who raped and pillaged and carried out mass murder need their own state."
You are overreacting, anti-antisemitism exists and will never go away, thieves exists and people will go on stealing, rapists exists and they will attack women, there will be always pedophiles etc. All of it is from the devil and countries have a duty to prosecute those criminals.
It goes wrong if countries start to support racism, as we have seen in Nazi Germany.
And racism will never go away, Trump calling people from Africa stinking, posting on X a picture of a former president and first lady as apes.
And there we go again, not learned from history.
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You are overreacting, anti-antisemitism exists and will never go away
I don't know what "anti-antisemitism" is. All I know is that Europe has always had a problem with its Jews.
It's not overreacting to make this observation.
All of it is from the devil and countries have a duty to prosecute those criminals.
Nobody is being prosecuted.
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And racism will never go away, Trump calling people from Africa stinking, posting on X a picture of a former president and first lady as apes.
I had not heard anything about this. CNN covered it, apparently, but I do not watch CNN (or any other news channel). https://www.cnn.com/2026/02/06/politics/donald-trump-obamas-apes-truth-social
Doesn't change the fact that European leaders are garbage.
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And racism will never go away, Trump calling people from Africa stinking, posting on X a picture of a former president and first lady as apes.
I had not heard anything about this. CNN covered it, apparently, but I do not watch CNN (or any other news channel). https://www.cnn.com/2026/02/06/politics/donald-trump-obamas-apes-truth-social
Doesn't change the fact that European leaders are garbage.
At times it is pathetic indeed.
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"NATO is ending and it's Trump's fault".
The UK is blocking American use of the airbase at Diego Garcia for potential strikes on Iran.
They're siding with the Mullahs of Iran and the slave masters of Qatar over the US and Israel.
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No, that's not what the UK is doing.
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No, that's not what the UK is doing.
Ok. What is the UK doing?
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No, that's not what the UK is doing.
Ok. What is the UK doing?
The UK is unsure if approving US use of RAF bases will breach international law (last year the UK decided not to participate in attacks on Iranian nuclear facilities).
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The UK is unsure if approving US use of RAF bases will breach international law (last year the UK decided not to participate in attacks on Iranian nuclear facilities).
Ohhhh. The UK is concerned with international law? Chuckle. Following a massive terrorist attack carried out by Palestinians, the PM couldn't recognize a Palestinian state fast enough. I don't recall any worries about international law then.
And you wonder why I think the European governments are full of losers? If this is NATO, I don't care if it dies.
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Ohhhh. The UK is concerned with international law? Chuckle. Following a massive terrorist attack carried out by Palestinians, the PM couldn't recognize a Palestinian state fast enough. I don't recall any worries about international law then.
And you wonder why I think the European governments are full of losers? If this is NATO, I don't care if it dies.
What international law has the UK violated in doing so? And no, I don't wonder that at all.
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What international law has the UK violated in doing so?
I don't know what "international law" even is. Who wrote it? Who enforces it?
So according to the UK, America bombing Iran would be in violation against some "international law".
Is Iran in violation of an international law for shooting thousands of protesters? For funding terrorist proxies that have carried out attacks in Iraq, in Israel, in Argentina? For building nuclear weapons in violation of the NPT? Who knows! Who cares!
Hamas carried out a terrorist attack that murdered more Jews than at any other time since the Holocaust. Hamas was still holding hundreds of hostages. Did that violate any "international law"? And yet the UK decided that the time was ripe to recognize a "Palestinian state".
The truth is that there's no such thing as "international law". Iran is a bad actor that should be stopped. But Starmer is a coward. He'd rather stop America from doing the right thing than take a stand that might be difficult for him politically. He is the quintessential European politician.
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I don't know what "international law" even is. Who wrote it? Who enforces it?
Yes you do. What international law did the UK violate in recognising a Palestinian state? Here is the government's statement:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-formally-recognises-palestinian-state
So according to the UK, America bombing Iran would be in violation against some "international law".
No. The UK's concern is article 16 of the International Law Commission's Articles on Responsibility of States for Internationally Wrongful Acts:
https://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/draft_articles/9_6_2001.pdf
Article 16
Aid or assistance in the commission of an
internationally wrongful act
A State which aids or assists another State in the commission of an internationally wrongful act by
the latter is internationally responsible for doing so if:
(a) that State does so with knowledge of the circumstances of the internationally wrongful act; and
(b) the act would be internationally wrongful if committed by that State
The UK's concern is thusly, does the US have clear legal justification to strike Iran?
Is Iran in violation of an international law for shooting thousands of protesters? For funding terrorist proxies that have carried out attacks in Iraq, in Israel, in Argentina? For building nuclear weapons in violation of the NPT? Who knows! Who cares!
You should know, and you should care, and the answer, is most certainly. The US still needs to put together legal justification. Or, it can attack without the use of RAF bases, and really stand behind its "we can do what we want" bravado.
Can you remind me what happened after the US intervened following its promises of support for Iranian Protestors?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cj691w2e840t
So let's take all the moral outrage and ask: why hasn't the US acted yet? After all, the only thing stopped Donald is his own morality, right?
https://abcnews.com/Politics/trump-morality-limit-global-power/story?id=129033900
Hamas carried out a terrorist attack that murdered more Jews than at any other time since the Holocaust. Hamas was still holding hundreds of hostages. Did that violate any "international law"? And yet the UK decided that the time was ripe to recognize a "Palestinian state".
Can you tell me what international law the UK violated in recognising a Palestinian state?
The truth is that there's no such thing as "international law". Iran is a bad actor that should be stopped. But Starmer is a coward. He'd rather stop America from doing the right thing than take a stand that might be difficult for him politically. He is the quintessential European politician.
Ironically, Starmer has taken a stand that is difficult for him politically:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c309qqyer8yo
Iran should be stopped. That's not in question. The question is whether the US, which is currently doing a bad cosplay of Thrasymachus, can provide legal justification. If not, the US can play "who is going to stop us?" all it wants, but it doesn't get to complain that no one helped them.
And I haven't even touched how the US administration, under Donald, is treating its allies.
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Yes you do. What international law did the UK violate in recognising a Palestinian state?
They recognized an internationally designated terrorist group that invaded another state and carried out rape, pillage, and murder on a grand scale and took hundreds of hostages.
I don't believe in "international law" because it only appears to exist when one can blame Israel or America of violating it.
I do believe in doing the moral thing.
What the UK did regarding Hamas was not the moral thing.
Now they want to block the US from doing the moral thing.
The UK's concern is thusly, does the US have clear legal justification to strike Iran?
While you're worrying about "clear legal justification", people are dying.
You should know, and you should care, and the answer, is most certainly. The US still needs to put together legal justification. Or, it can attack without the use of RAF bases, and really stand behind its "we can do what we want" bravado.
It's more along the line of "we don't like bullies and we really don't like bullies who aspire to nuclear weapons.
So let's take all the moral outrage and ask: why hasn't the US acted yet? After all, the only thing stopped Donald is his own morality, right?
I am outraged that he hasn't acted yet. I don't know what the holdup is now, because the Mullahs are jerking him around with nonsense "negotiations".
Ironically, Starmer has taken a stand that is difficult for him politically:
How is this "difficult for him politically? He doesn't care what Americans think, obviously.
Iran should be stopped. That's not in question. The question is whether the US, which is currently doing a bad cosplay of Thrasymachus, can provide legal justification. If not, the US can play "who is going to stop us?" all it wants, but it doesn't get to complain that no one helped them.
I think the legal justification is obvious, but nobody else sems to want to do anything about it. The opposite, everyone seems to be running interference for Iran.
The world is a fallen place.
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You are overreacting, anti-antisemitism exists and will never go away
I don't know what "anti-antisemitism" is. All I know is that Europe has always had a problem with its Jews.
But most where you live.
https://www.euronews.com/2025/05/08/antisemitic-incidents-surge-across-europe-and-the-world-adl-report-shows
Nobody is being prosecuted.
But of course.
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I am outraged that he hasn't acted yet. I don't know what the holdup is now, because the Mullahs are jerking him around with nonsense "negotiations".
True that and Iran will never give up its nuclear aspirations.
https://caspianpost.com/iran/iran-russia-china-to-stage-joint-naval-drills-in-strait-of-hormuz
Warships of Russia and China are in the Strait of Hormuz.
They are there for a reason and we don't know what is happening behind the scenes.
Note the 2 weeks extra time Trump gave for the Iran regime, it's odd.
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https://www.euronews.com/2025/05/08/antisemitic-incidents-surge-across-europe-and-the-world-adl-report-shows
What are Europeans doing about this?
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https://www.euronews.com/2025/05/08/antisemitic-incidents-surge-across-europe-and-the-world-adl-report-shows
What are Europeans doing about this?
Quietly applauding and collecting on their bets…
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https://www.euronews.com/2025/05/08/antisemitic-incidents-surge-across-europe-and-the-world-adl-report-shows
What are Europeans doing about this?
With US as most anti-Semitic incidents you better as first one explain what your country is doing.
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With US as most anti-Semitic incidents you better as first one explain what your country is doing.
The US has far more Jews than Europe. You know, because Europeans murdered millions of them.
Looking at the chart in the article you posted:
Germany had 2782 incidents in 2023. Germany has a Jewish population of 118,000.
The UK had 4103 incidents in 2023. They have a Jewish population of 292,000.
The US had 8873 incidents in 2023. They have a Jewish population of 5.7 million.
So the US had 2X the incidents of the UK, but has almost 20X the Jewish population.
And about 3X the incidents of Germany, but 48X the Jewish population.
The rate of antisemitic incidents in Europe is way, waaaay higher than the US.
This doesn't surprise me in the least. How about you?
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You did not answer the question, what do you better than Europe ?
Refresh my mind about the name of the Israeli soccer club that played in Amsterdam and went totally out of control a couple of years ago and I will try to find what happened to the criminals. The event got world wide attention because of the violence, I just need that name of that Israeli soccer club.
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You did not answer the question, what do you better than Europe ?
Well, we are not importing antisemitic Muslims by the millions, for one thing.
Refresh my mind about the name of the Israeli soccer club that played in Amsterdam and went totally out of control a couple of years ago and I will try to find what happened to the criminals. The event got world wide attention because of the violence, I just need that name of that Israeli soccer club.
The soccer club was a pretext. The Muslim community planned to attack any Jews they could find, and they did. I'd love to know that justice was done, but I really doubt it.
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You did not answer the question, what do you better than Europe ?
Well, we are not importing antisemitic Muslims by the millions, for one thing.
Refresh my mind about the name of the Israeli soccer club that played in Amsterdam and went totally out of control a couple of years ago and I will try to find what happened to the criminals. The event got world wide attention because of the violence, I just need that name of that Israeli soccer club.
The soccer club was a pretext. The Muslim community planned to attack any Jews they could find, and they did. I'd love to know that justice was done, but I really doubt it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2024_Amsterdam_riots
Several local individuals who attacked Maccabi fans were given jail terms by Amsterdam district court.
The evening before the match, Maccabi Tel Aviv fans were filmed pulling Palestinian flags from houses, making racist anti-Arab chants such as "death to Arabs", assaulting people, and vandalising local property.
Plans to attack Israeli fans were subsequently shared through messaging apps.[4][13] After the match, Maccabi fans were ambushed and assaulted across the city centre, while a group of Maccabi fans around Damrak was recorded assaulting people and vandalising local property.[14]
The attacks on Israeli fans were condemned as antisemitic by Amsterdam mayor Femke Halsema,[15] Dutch prime minister Dick Schoof,[16] King Willem-Alexander,[17] and several international leaders.[18][19] The failure to condemn the Israeli fans' attacks, and their characterisation of the events as "antisemitic", was also described as being one-sided.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As you can see many Maccabi fans were racists themselves and committed crimes on our soil.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2024_Amsterdam_riots
Several local individuals who attacked Maccabi fans were given jail terms by Amsterdam district court.
Oh. "Several". That's great.
As you can see many Maccabi fans were racists themselves and committed crimes on our soil.
None of this was reported at the time, and the only website with the article is behind a paywall. So, I'm calling "doubt".
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2024_Amsterdam_riots
Several local individuals who attacked Maccabi fans were given jail terms by Amsterdam district court.
Oh. "Several". That's great.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwy81qvn7gjo
More details about the court ruling.
As you can see many Maccabi fans were racists themselves and committed crimes on our soil.
None of this was reported at the time, and the only website with the article is behind a paywall. So, I'm calling "doubt".
Here is a story, we had a hotheaded neighbor, not a bad guy, but he had mood swings and could burst out in anger out of the blue, as you can imagine he was not very popular in the neighborhood. About 15 years ago apparently it was my turn, I was driving my car from the parking place when he came out of his house and started to yell at me. No idea why. I did not say a word, just kept looking at him till he had finished his rant, he went home, I continued my way, shrug.
Then 5-6 years ago another incident with his direct neighbor, at about 23:30 he was yelling to his neighbor woman and the woman just stood there, said nothing and let him rant till they both went inside.
The next day the neighbor woman came to our house and asked me what I had seen and heard. I told her. And she said we are going to sue him for antisemitism. I said, how so? And she explained her husband is half Jewish and in his rant he made antisemitic remarks about her husband according to her. And it was true, in his rant he named Israel but I did not hear antisemitism, he would say the same political statements about Erdogan or our own politics system for that matter.
Months passed, I got an invitation to come to the police station because I was a witness, I told them what I had seen and heard, no antisemitism IMO and it was noted and I had to put my signature under the document.
More months passed and the judge decided in favor of the plaintiff -> antisemitism. No jail but he had to pay a considerable penalty to the plaintiff.
I found the verdict unfair, these 2 couples were pestering each other for years with silly little things such as complaining about deliberate slamming doors and more childish things, both guilty, but then the neighbor woman found a stick to beat.
Anyway, the judge ruled different, for certain he had more information than me, so I have to accept his ruling.
I really wonder what your media is telling you, especially the last year, the Trump administration leaves no opportunity to put down Europe.
We recently heard the Rubio speech in Munich, the message: become like us (the US of Trump) and we will be fine again. And that is never going to happen.
The US wants a stronger Europe because of the new challenges, China & Russia wanting to overthrow the West. And US will get a stronger Europe, out of self-preservation. But we will not become American in Trump style.
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As you can see many Maccabi fans were racists themselves and committed crimes on our soil.
I want to go back to this for a minute.
"Maccabi fans were racists themselves and committed crimes on our soil."
Why the assumption that the Maccabi fans are outsiders? Maybe they're Dutch citizens who follow the team. Maybe they're not even Jews.
This is such a classic antisemitic trope. "They're outsiders". The German Jewish community was 1,000 years old when Hitler came to power. And he still called them "outsiders". And the Germans followed his lead.
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As you can see many Maccabi fans were racists themselves and committed crimes on our soil.
I want to go back to this for a minute.
"Maccabi fans were racists themselves and committed crimes on our soil."
Why the assumption that the Maccabi fans are outsiders? Maybe they're Dutch citizens who follow the team. Maybe they're not even Jews.
This is such a classic antisemitic trope. "They're outsiders". The German Jewish community was 1,000 years old when Hitler came to power. And he still called them "outsiders". And the Germans followed his lead.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_HRUV86bVa0
Really ?
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Really ?
No sound. I have no idea what they're saying, or who they are. Did anyone ask them for their passports, to verify what country they're from? I don't see any assaults, either. But sure, let's "something something both sides" after Jews get assaulted.
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Really ?
No sound. I have no idea what they're saying, or who they are. Did anyone ask them for their passports, to verify what country they're from? I don't see any assaults, either. But sure, let's "something something both sides" after Jews get assaulted.
On top of the video is the sound button.
I did not hear Dutch, not English, perhaps it's Hebrew and you can understand what they are chanting?
It's hard to find English websites of a Dutch event, but here is particular one from Netanyahu :
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-86th-anniversary-of-kristallnacht-was-marked-on-streets-of-amsterdam-last-night/
Netanyahu: 86th anniversary of Kristallnacht was ‘marked’ on streets of Amsterdam last night
Not nice to hear, the Kristallnacht was state supported, the Netherlands locked up the guilty ones.
I did some further research on the Maccabi soccer club and they seem to have their own small section of what we call in Europe soccer hooligans whose only purpose is to create trouble, we have hundreds of soccer teams in Europe with these relative small number of hooligans that cause trouble, provoking and fighting with the police and/or the supporters of the other team is what they do.
So the Maccabi hooligans before the game were provoking insulting Arabs, Palestinians, Gaza, meanwhile during the game on social media tensions were building up and some Muslims took the path of extreme violence after the game.
Is it antisemitism? Absolutely, 100%.
From the Wikipedia - The attacks on Israeli fans were condemned as antisemitic by Amsterdam mayor Femke Halsema,[15] Dutch prime minister Dick Schoof,[16] King Willem-Alexander,[17] and several international leaders.[18][19] The failure to condemn the Israeli fans' attacks, and their characterisation of the events as "antisemitic", was also described as being one-sided.[20][21][22]
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On top of the video is the sound button.
I did not hear Dutch, not English, perhaps it's Hebrew and you can understand what they are chanting?
I can't understand it either. Why assume what they're saying if you can't understand it?
Netanyahu: 86th anniversary of Kristallnacht was ‘marked’ on streets of Amsterdam last night
Not nice to hear, the Kristallnacht was state supported, the Netherlands locked up the guilty ones.
No, the Dutch police locked up a few people for what was a widespread and pre planned event.
Yes, Jews are sensitive about violence. We've been exposed to far too much of it, and nobody seems to care. Again, in the wake of a massive invasion of Israel that killed more Jews than at any time since the Holocaust, European countries were lining up to recognize a Palestinian state.
I did some further research on the Maccabi soccer club and they seem to have their own small section of what we call in Europe soccer hooligans whose only purpose is to create trouble, we have hundreds of soccer teams in Europe with these relative small number of hooligans that cause trouble, provoking and fighting with the police and/or the supporters of the other team is what they do.
OK.
So the Maccabi hooligans before the game were provoking insulting Arabs, Palestinians, Gaza, meanwhile during the game on social media tensions were building up and some Muslims took the path of extreme violence after the game.
Is it antisemitism? Absolutely, 100%.
OK. Because we have a problem here. Admitting the problem exists is the first step, at least.
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OK. Because we have a problem here. Admitting the problem exists is the first step, at least.
My dear Jewish friend, I am tired, how so first step? It has always been this way in my country, fighting antisemitism. You can make racist remarks here about the Turks who live here and get away with it, you better NOT do that with Jews, you will be prosecuted, I notable gave you an example from my own experience.
Mind you, you must know the story of Anne Frank, or the story of Corrie ten Boom (the hiding place movie or her books). These are the 2 main stories of Dutch people who were hiding Jews and paid the highest price.
According to the Anne Frank foundation Dutch people were hiding 28.000 Jews, many many were caught either by betrayal or by the notorious razzia's by the Nazi's, going from house to house looking for Jews. And when you were caught hiding Jews you were treated as a Jew and ended up in a concentration camp and later in the gas chamber.
Please, educate yourself first before you accuse.
https://nos.nl/artikel/2560268-ruim-120-verdachten-van-maccabi-rellen-naam-vaak-nog-onbekend
Dutch link, official report Dutch police, you need Google to translate.
You may have the last word.
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My dear Jewish friend, I am tired, how so first step? It has always been this way in my country, fighting antisemitism.
snip
Please, educate yourself first before you accuse.
It hasn't "always been this way" in your country. Around 75% of the Dutch Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, a much higher number than the surrounding countries like France (25%) or Belgium (25%).
I'm not blaming modern citizens and I respect that the present government is attempting to take the situation seriously. Be that as it may, there is a rot in Europe right now.
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My dear Jewish friend, I am tired, how so first step? It has always been this way in my country, fighting antisemitism.
snip
Please, educate yourself first before you accuse.
It hasn't "always been this way" in your country. Around 75% of the Dutch Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, a much higher number than the surrounding countries like France (25%) or Belgium (25%).
That awful fact has nothing to do with our initial discussion.
Dutch were not killing Jews, the Nazis did.