BibleForums Christian Message Board
Bible Talk => Theology => Topic started by: meshak on October 01, 2023, 09:14:08 PM
-
anyone?
blessings.
-
Are you wondering for the purpose of eventually saying, "Ha! so! believing in the trinity is not required to be saved!"? Because of course, but "see title" makes for a boring thread.
-
Well, let’s see.
I guess the first prerequisite for salvation would be that one has to been in need of salvation.
So maybe we can start by dealing with the question of the doctrine of original sin, federal headship of Adam, what the flesh or the sin nature is, and what we mean by bloodguiltiness is for starters.
So, what do we say about how it is that Adam and Eve, being created in perfection without sin in a perfect environment, where able to sin?
-
The man on the middle cross said I could come.
-
The man on the middle cross said I could come.
True dat….
I still tear up every single time I see that video
-
Are you wondering for the purpose of eventually saying, "Ha! so! believing in the trinity is not required to be saved!"? Because of course, but "see title" makes for a boring thread.
Then why do you call non-trins heretics or cults?
My title is to prove you are wrong.
You have no proof that your non-trins are not Christians.
Your requirement is made by men, not by Jesus.
-
Are you wondering for the purpose of eventually saying, "Ha! so! believing in the trinity is not required to be saved!"? Because of course, but "see title" makes for a boring thread.
Then why do you call non-trins heretics or cults?
My title is to prove you are wrong.
You have no proof that your non-trins are not Christians.
Your requirement is made by men, not by Jesus.
Why do t you skip the stupid self defense part and deal with my questions. We aren’t close to discussing the solution yet—- the nature of the person of Jesus— we still need to figure out the nature of the problem before we deal with potential solutions.
-
The man on the middle cross said I could come.
True dat….
I still tear up every single time I see that video
You mean to tell me all these years i've been asking Christians for evidence of Jesus and there was video footage of him on the cross this whole time!!?!?!?!! This changes everything!
-
Your presupposition re video are sadly misplaced.
It’s a reference to a particular line from a very good sermon by a pastor named Alistair Begg
-
Are you wondering for the purpose of eventually saying, "Ha! so! believing in the trinity is not required to be saved!"? Because of course, but "see title" makes for a boring thread.
Then why do you call non-trins heretics or cults?
My title is to prove you are wrong.
You have no proof that your non-trins are not Christians.
Your requirement is made by men, not by Jesus.
Oh, where did I say that? There's a 'Search' function above, feel free to quote.
-
Are you wondering for the purpose of eventually saying, "Ha! so! believing in the trinity is not required to be saved!"? Because of course, but "see title" makes for a boring thread.
Then why do you call non-trins heretics or cults?
My title is to prove you are wrong.
You have no proof that your non-trins are not Christians.
Your requirement is made by men, not by Jesus.
Oh, where did I say that? There's a 'Search' function above, feel free to quote.
Maybe MeShack is a precog… red ball???
-
Are you wondering for the purpose of eventually saying, "Ha! so! believing in the trinity is not required to be saved!"? Because of course, but "see title" makes for a boring thread.
Then why do you call non-trins heretics or cults?
My title is to prove you are wrong.
You have no proof that your non-trins are not Christians.
Your requirement is made by men, not by Jesus.
Oh, where did I say that? There's a 'Search' function above, feel free to quote.
Maybe MeShack is a precog… red ball???
About as accurate as an 8-ball methinks!
-
Magic 8 ball has 12.5% chance if randomly being right, so…….
-
Your presupposition re video are sadly misplaced.
It’s a reference to a particular line from a very good sermon by a pastor named Alistair Begg
bummer, I guess it's just as well though cuz the impressive part wasn't that he could hang on a cross anyway.
-
Magic 8 ball has 12.5% chance if randomly being right, so…….
Ouff, I may have overstated the case.
Heard of Dale Tuggy?
-
Is he one of the nouveau Unitarian bunch?
I get them all confused…
-
Is he one of the nouveau Unitarian bunch?
I get them all confused…
That's the one. He's the guy behind https://trinities.org/blog/. Oh shoot, am I meant to utter words like "heretic" and "cult"? Can't ever keep these things straight!
-
Well, let’s see.
I guess the first prerequisite for salvation would be that one has to been in need of salvation.
So maybe we can start by dealing with the question of the doctrine of original sin, federal headship of Adam, what the flesh or the sin nature is, and what we mean by bloodguiltiness is for starters.
So, what do we say about how it is that Adam and Eve, being created in perfection without sin in a perfect environment, where able to sin?
This is what Jesus says:
Matthew 19:16-19
New International Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’
-
For those of you who believe in the need for salvation, do you see salvation more as 'being saved' or as 'being salvaged'? Come to think of it, do you see it as something else altogether?
-
Well, let’s see.
I guess the first prerequisite for salvation would be that one has to been in need of salvation.
So maybe we can start by dealing with the question of the doctrine of original sin, federal headship of Adam, what the flesh or the sin nature is, and what we mean by bloodguiltiness is for starters.
So, what do we say about how it is that Adam and Eve, being created in perfection without sin in a perfect environment, where able to sin?
This is what Jesus says:
Matthew 19:16-19
New International Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’
He said that, He also said other things.
Do you think this is the only requirement?
In the case you believe that it would mean we don't need Jesus at all for eternal life, right?
-
Do you think this is the only requirement?
This is the minimum requirement.
But not too many mainstream Christians take it seriously.
-
Do you think this is the only requirement?
This is the minimum requirement.
But not too many mainstream Christians take it seriously.
You have got to be kidding…
That is not a requirement
Read that in context for pity sake… including the rest of what Jesus and the apostles said. No one can keep the commandments perfectly…. That’s why we need grace
-
I mean it's fairly standard Christian dogma that one attains the afterlife through the belief in Jesus's sacrifice for the sins of mankind.
Galatians 2:21 For if keeping the law could release God's righteousness to us, then Christ would have died for nothing.
I'm not even a Christian and I know this.
-
I mean it's fairly standard Christian dogma that one attains the afterlife through the belief in Jesus's sacrifice for the sins of mankind.
that's not what Jesus says.
-
Do you think this is the only requirement?
This is the minimum requirement.
But not too many mainstream Christians take it seriously.
You are evading my question -
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’
You are calling this the minimum requirement for salvation, Jesus quoting the Old Testament.
Meaning that you believe that for salvation we don't need Jesus at all, only the 10 commandments.
That's not logical.
-
The belief that a person does not need Jesus at all, only the ten commandments, is certainly not a Christian idea.
Can you explain how it is not a logical one though?
-
The belief that a person does not need Jesus at all, only the ten commandments, is certainly not a Christian idea.
Can you explain how it is not a logical one though?
It's not logical or well reasoned in the sense that meshak is quoting Jesus. Quoting one statement and creating dogma of a minimum requirement from that. Jesus said much more as ProDeo stated. The "rest of the story" is not being taken in account.
-
Re: What is requirement for salvation?
The Blood of Jesus.
-
Re: What is requirement for salvation?
The Blood of Jesus.
This is what Jesus says:
Matthew 19:16-19
New International Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’
-
So?
The recorded words of Jesus in the Gospels are not the entirety of the Gospel. You are taking that passage out of context. Jesus said those things (and note, He did not list all of the 10 commandments, or any of the other rules and regulations contained in the Law), for the express purpose of demonstrating that the rich young ruler did NOT and had NOT followed or obeyed the Law, as the rich man had failed to avoid coveting (which Jesus did not mention by name, but which the rich man knew he had violated.
That's why he left upset.
This passage has nothing to do with the requirements for salvation, which Jesus NEVER spelled out.
That came later in the doctrinal development of the apostles, particularly Peter and Paul (but not Mary).
-
https://noelpaulstookey.com/music/lyrics/building-block/
-
This is what Jesus says:
Matthew 19:16-19
New International Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’
You're cherry-picking verses to support your view. Jesus made a number of statements linking salvation to a firm belief in Him, including the following:
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(John 3:14-16)
That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins. (John 8:24)
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. (John 3:18)
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him. (John 3:36)
For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:40)
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies.
(John 11:25)
-
that's not what Jesus says.
Why are you ignoring the Galatians quote?
Galatians 2:21 For if keeping the law could release God's righteousness to us, then Christ would have died for nothing.
Listen, I'm not a Christian and I don't believe that the NT is holy writ. But Christians do. You can't hand wave all that away by quoting a single statement of Jesus.
-
One reason for ignoring the Galatians quote, as well as for ignoring the quotes from the fourth gospel, might be that the question is being interpreted in a different way.
The closest to the original question that I would ask is this:
What did the historical Jesus of Nazareth believe was required for salvation, assuming he believed salvation was necessary?
Naturally, I would then ignore the fourth gospel and the epistles.
For a Christian it is more likely to be this:
What does the New Testament present as the requirement for salvation?
Here, all the gospels and the epistles would be worth consulting.
Some Christians, however, might also pose this question:
If someone had approached Jesus of Nazareth and asked him what was required for salvation, what reply would they have got?
This last question seems to be what is behind the original post, although the original poster may wish to dispute this.
-
Jesus always had one response… “follow me”
-
One reason for ignoring the Galatians quote, as well as for ignoring the quotes from the fourth gospel, might be that the question is being interpreted in a different way.
The closest to the original question that I would ask is this:
What did the historical Jesus of Nazareth believe was required for salvation, assuming he believed salvation was necessary?
This is a fair question to ask. As Jewish person I have my own ideas on the matter which I have discussed in the past. However, we come to this...
For a Christian it is more likely to be this:
What does the New Testament present as the requirement for salvation?
Christians have their own understanding of both bibles, and what they have concluded is established doctrine. The fact that you or I might understand the bibles differently isn't going to alter Christian belief.
-
Jesus always had one response… “follow me”
What He is saying is to be faithful to Him.
-
You're cherry-picking verses to support your view.
do you think without following Jesus' word you will have salvation?
I dont think so.
-
Why are you ignoring the Galatians quote? ]/quote]
Jesus says He is the Teacher.
Why do you ignore His word?
I am Jesus' follower.
I point to Jesus' word.
-
You're cherry-picking verses to support your view.
do you think without following Jesus' word you will have salvation?
I dont think so.
Well, there goes your minimum requirement of Matthew 19:16-19 :)
-
Well, there goes your minimum requirement of Matthew 19:16-19 :)
What is your point?
You did not add anything that contradicts what I quoted.
In fact, you just repeated what I quoted.
good day, friend.
-
Jesus said to sell everything, give it to the poor, and follow him
Have you obeyed and sold everything you own and given it away to the poor?
Using your logic, …
-
Jesus says He is the Teacher.
He's not my teacher. I don't consider the NT to be holy writ. But you do, and so you are obligated by the totality of the works. Not just the parts you like or agree with.
-
There is a set of instructions for salvation which Christians believe can be found in the Bible, including the gospels, the epistles and the Tanakh/Septuagint/Old Testament.
The question which looks most similar to the one the original poster is asking, from what I can tell, is this:
Why did Jesus give the instructions he gave to the rich young ruler when he was asked about obtaining eternal life?
The relevance of this question is that this appears to be the only time Jesus is actually asked about such instructions. On other occasions he says things which Christians take as instructions, but not in response to such a direct question. For example, Nicodemus does not ask 'What must a man do in order to enter the kingdom of heaven?'.
-
Why did Jesus give the instructions he gave to the rich young ruler when he was asked about obtaining eternal life?
Because Jesus wants all His followers to give all you got to follow Him.
Remember what I showed was a minimum requirement for salvation.
Jesus' standard is perfection for His followers.
-
So have you sold everything and given it all to the poor?
Or by your logic do you just partially follow Jesus?
-
Well, there goes your minimum requirement of Matthew 19:16-19 :)
What is your point?
You did not add anything that contradicts what I quoted.
In fact, you just repeated what I quoted.
good day, friend.
The point is you added a condition (I am Jesus' follower) to Matthew 19:16-19, so no longer your minimum requirement.
-
The point is you added a condition (I am Jesus' follower) to Matthew 19:16-19, so no longer your minimum requirement.
I am following Jesus' overall teaching, not just pick and choose like most mainstreamers do.
blessings.
-
What about Paul’s teaching? You obey that too?
-
What about Paul’s teaching? You obey that too?
If it harmonizes with Jesus' teaching, I will follow.
Jesus says He is the Teacher and not let one call you a teacher.
-
Do you believe the word in the books of the New Testament are the inspired Word of God?
Nothing Paul ever wrote contradicts Jesus.
-
Do you believe the word in the books of the New Testament are the inspired Word of God?
Nothing Paul ever wrote contradicts Jesus.
That's your opinion.
I go to Jesus' word.
Jesus is the Lord of all His followers.
-
Jesus did not write down any of his teachings
So how do you know that what is recorded in the Gospels as having been said by Jesus is true?
-
I am following Jesus' overall teaching, not just pick and choose like most mainstreamers do.
Jesus' final instructions to His disciples before His ascension were to teach among the nations exactly what He had taught (Mat 28:19). The doctrine Paul taught was likewise received from Jesus by revelation (Gal 1:11-12). The teachings of Jesus were made known by those privy to them, and what is recorded in the NT is their testimony. To reject any of it is also to pick and choose.
-
I am following Jesus' overall teaching, not just pick and choose like most mainstreamers do.
Jesus' final instructions to His disciples before His ascension were to teach among the nations exactly what He had taught (Mat 28:19). The doctrine Paul taught was likewise received from Jesus by revelation (Gal 1:11-12). The teachings of Jesus were made known by those privy to them, and what is recorded in the NT is their testimony. To reject any of it is also to pick and choose.
Hooah!!
At the end of any day, to reject any verse/scripture, is rebellion against what God has revealed or says throughout His Word.
-
Jesus' final instructions to His disciples before His ascension were to teach among the nations exactly what He had taught (Mat 28:19). The doctrine Paul taught was likewise received from Jesus by revelation (Gal 1:11-12). The teachings of Jesus were made known by those privy to them, and what is recorded in the NT is their testimony. To reject any of it is also to pick and choose.
You don't think Jesus was a perfect teacher that needed further instruction from His servants?
You don't seem to have much confidence in Jesus' perfect teachings.
I know Jesus was a perfect Teacher.
He was sent to teach us how to worship and obey all His teachings and God's kingdom.
-
No, Jesus didn’t say everything believers needed. He left that to his disciples and apostles and the Holy Spirit.
He didn’t claim to do so
He said it was better for the disciples if he left and the Holy Spirit came
What group of mature believers do you share with that help check your beliefs?
-
I am following Jesus' overall teaching, not just pick and choose like most mainstreamers do.
blessings.
Do you own a sword? Luk_22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
You are good to those who persecute you? Mat_5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
do you own anything even a computer or phone? Mat_19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mar_10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Do you work for your food?
Joh_6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
When you pray do youi always pray like Jesus said to.?
Luk_11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
These few quotes of Jesus should help you understand why we need the whole of Scripture
-
No, Jesus didn’t say everything believers needed.
It is so sad that you don't think Jesus taught us everything we needed for salvation.
Good day, friend.
-
You don't think Jesus was a perfect teacher that needed further instruction from His servants?
You don't seem to have much confidence in Jesus' perfect teachings.
I know Jesus was a perfect Teacher.
He was sent to teach us how to worship and obey all His teachings and God's kingdom.
You were not there to personally hear His words, were you? The only way you know what He taught is by reading His words as recorded by those who heard them.
-
No, Jesus didn’t say everything believers needed.
It is so sad that you don't think Jesus taught us everything we needed for salvation.
Good day, friend.
Salvation is not a business deal. It’s a relationship with the most loving person ever who just happens to also be God. It isn’t about keeping rules. It’s about doing right out of love. Not out of fear or duty or obligation
We would be hopeless without the rest of the New Testament and for all the information recording in the Gospels other than the words of Jesus that are quoted.
-
Salvation is not a business deal.
Salvation is obtaining eternal life in God's kingdom.
-
You were not there to personally hear His words, were you?
His faithful ones kept a record of what He taught.
All His word is in the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, and the Revelation.
-
You were not there to personally hear His words, were you?
His faithful ones kept a record of what He taught.
All His word is in the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, and the Revelation.
That simply is not true. He said many things that were not recorded.
-
His faithful ones kept a record of what He taught.
Precisely my point, which you chose to ignore. Conversing with you is a trying experience, so I think I'm done.
-
You were not there to personally hear His words, were you?
His faithful ones kept a record of what He taught.
All His word is in the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, and the Revelation.
Wrong.
John 20:30-31
30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
The majority of your posts are devoid of Scripture. In this forum that's a problem that you need to fix.
-
What about Paul’s teaching? You obey that too?
If it harmonizes with Jesus' teaching, I will follow.
You say "if", then please offer examples from the epistles you reject as Scripture.
-
What about Paul’s teaching? You obey that too?
If it harmonizes with Jesus' teaching, I will follow.
You say "if", then please offer examples from the epistles you reject as Scripture.
Not all of Paul's teachings harmonize with Jesus' word.
-
What about Paul’s teaching? You obey that too?
If it harmonizes with Jesus' teaching, I will follow.
You say "if", then please offer examples from the epistles you reject as Scripture.
Not all of Paul's teachings harmonize with Jesus' word.
Of course they do.
Please educate us if you think otherwise. What of Paul's teaching do you consider to be anti-Christ?
-
If, and this is a big if, Paul explicitly taught that by following the commandments it would not be possible to obtain eternal life, then this would be at odds with Jesus' teachings.
-
Jesus never taught that keeping the commandments granted eternal life. Even in the story of the rich young ruler he gave the young man enough rope to prove to himself that he did not keep the commandments.
Jesus entire point was that one cannot keep the commandments
-
Except that the extra piece of commentary you added is not in the original.
If what you say is true, Jesus lied when he replied to the rich young ruler.
-
You have to read in the context of the totality of Jesus’ ministry.
It’s literature not a scientific technical journal for pity sake. Jesus rep early said his kingdom is not if this works which means that the laws of this world did not apply
He said that over and over
-
You have to read in the context of the totality of Jesus’ ministry.
That's right, Jesus' ministry, not anyone else's.
-
Except that the extra piece of commentary you added is not in the original.
If what you say is true, Jesus lied when he replied to the rich young ruler.
Context, context... the whole story
The Rich Young Man
16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. 23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.
Jesus knew the weak spot of the young rich man and put this finger on it.
-
You have to read in the context of the totality of Jesus’ ministry.
That's right, Jesus' ministry, not anyone else's.
I am still curious to learn about Paul's false teachings.
-
The Franciscans would take the same part, including what Jesus said after the rich young ruler had left, and still conclude that keeping the commandments, selling their possessions and giving all that was left to the poor were the requirements for salvation. They might maintain that those last two were in fact parts of the commandments. I'm fairly sure the Hussites would as well.
-
The RCC has been adding works to faith for millennia.
-
The RCC has been adding works to faith for millennia.
So?
-
You have to read in the context of the totality of Jesus’ ministry.
That's right, Jesus' ministry, not anyone else's.
I am still curious to learn about Paul's false teachings.
He added his own teaching to Jesus' word.
EG, speaking in tongues.
-
Which are false?
-
Which are false?
I just said he added his own teachings to His teachings.
See post#79
-
Paul learned his gospel directly from Jesus.
That’s not adding his teaching to Jesus
That’s him writing down what Jesus revealed to him
-
Paul learned his gospel directly from Jesus.
There is no evidence of it.
-
Paul testified to it.
Peter calls Paul’s writings “Scripture.” The church universal has called and recognized Paul’s writings as scripture for almost 2000 years
As you wiser than Paul, Peter, and the universal body of Christ?
-
For about 1500 years the Church Universal regarded the Septuagint as scripture, with only the Tanakh being suggested in its place around 500 years ago by the Protestants.
Which one, if either, do you go with and why?
-
I’m not sure you have that right.
The church, including Protestants, have always accepted the Books of Moses, the prophets, the psalms, the histories, and the wisdom literature.
There has never been universal acceptance of the apocryphal writings
-
Throughout the history of what we would now call the Orthodox and the Catholic Churches, their Old Testament was based on the Septuagint. There were a few variations among the Orthodox, but the writings Protestants call The Apocrypha were always treated as holy writ.
From the Reformation, Protestants started to reject these writings. It has only been five hundred years or so in which you would have found churches where The Apocrypha was not accepted, and by Christians outnumbered by Christians who do accept them and always have done.
-
And protestants reject Roman Catholic doctrine and dogma as well. And everyone rejected the non-canonical NT apocryphal books. Martin Luther could barely acknolwedge that the Epistle of James was in the NT.
The church prior to Constantine did not universally accept the Apocryphal writings. The Jews of Jesus' day did not, if memory serves, accept them a canonical. The ECF were all over the place. The councils were all over the place.
The point being?
-
I’m not sure you have that right.
It is how I read the NT.
Jesus is the author of Salvation, not Paul.
It is your prerogative to put Paul on a pedestal.
good luck with that.
-
anyone?
blessings.
Here is what Jesus established as the requirements for salvation, when a Jewish man versed in the Mosaic Law asked Jesus what he must do to gain everlasting life, to which Jesus then responded, "What is written in the Law ? how do you read ?", to which the man replied by quoting Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18, saying:
"You must love Jehovah (see Isa 12:2; 26:4, KJV) your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” He said to him: “You answered correctly; keep doing this and you will get life.”(Luke 10:25-28)
-
The point being?
You have been complaining about RCC but they are the initiators or Trinun god.
And protestant going along with them.
-
Here is what Jesus established as the requirements for salvation, when a Jewish man versed in the Mosaic Law asked Jesus what he must do to gain everlasting life, to which Jesus then responded, "What is written in the Law ? how do you read ?", to which the man replied by quoting Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18, saying:
"You must love Jehovah (see Isa 12:2; 26:4, KJV) your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” He said to him: “You answered correctly; keep doing this and you will get life.”(Luke 10:25-28)
This is a reply citing scripture, as required by this (sub)forum. This is the example to follow, as any further posting without scripture is going to lead to a closed thread.
meshak, you must have glossed over this
You were not there to personally hear His words, were you?
His faithful ones kept a record of what He taught.
All His word is in the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, and the Revelation.
Wrong.
John 20:30-31
30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
The majority of your posts are devoid of Scripture. In this forum that's a problem that you need to fix.
-
RabbiKnife: In reply 84 you refer to the Church Universal. That same Church Universal regarded the Apocrypha as authoritative for around 1500 years, yet you seem to call that belief into question.
Incidentally, although there is a popular myth to the contrary, Constantine had nothing to do with the Christian canon. His main theological contribution was to demand that the theologians sorted out the manner in which Christ's divinity was to be understood, with the current form of the Trinity being overwhelmingly decided on by the church council he organised for it.
-
The point being?
You have been complaining about RCC but they are the initiators or Trinun god.
And protestant going along with them.
Then let’s get down to the nut cuttin’.
Who do you say that Jesus is?
-
anyone?
blessings.
Here is what Jesus established as the requirements for salvation, when a Jewish man versed in the Mosaic Law asked Jesus what he must do to gain everlasting life, to which Jesus then responded, "What is written in the Law ? how do you read ?", to which the man replied by quoting Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18, saying:
"You must love Jehovah (see Isa 12:2; 26:4, KJV) your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” He said to him: “You answered correctly; keep doing this and you will get life.”(Luke 10:25-28)
And then Jesus took the man’s self righteousness apart by demonstrating that no one had or could keep the law and thus be righteous. You’re taking a verse out of its context defeats the very point that Jesus was making in his discussion with the self-righteous
-
Who do you say that Jesus is?
He is a Son of God.
He was sent to teach us how to love God and love one another.
-
Is Jesus God?
Or is Jesus less than God?
NOTE: After the answer in the other parallel thread, methinks there will be no further response in this one.
Put a fork in this one, Bishop Athanasius. It's one.
-
Forked?