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Author Topic: What is requirement for salvation?  (Read 9855 times)

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Rebecca

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Sojourner

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2023, 10:52:53 AM »
This is what Jesus says:

Matthew 19:16-19
New International Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’

You're cherry-picking verses to support your view. Jesus made a number of statements linking salvation to a firm belief in Him, including the following:

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(John 3:14-16)

That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins. (John 8:24)

Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. (John 3:18)

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him. (John 3:36)

For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:40)

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies.
(John 11:25)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2023, 11:11:07 AM by Sojourner »
Standing before the Judgment Throne we will retain only two things from this life: what God gave us, and what we accomplished with it.

Fenris

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2023, 12:11:20 PM »
that's not what Jesus says.
Why are you ignoring the Galatians quote?

Galatians 2:21 For if keeping the law could release God's righteousness to us, then Christ would have died for nothing.

Listen, I'm not a Christian and I don't believe that the NT is holy writ. But Christians do. You can't hand wave all that away by quoting a single statement of Jesus.

DavidGYoung

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2023, 03:30:09 PM »
One reason for ignoring the Galatians quote, as well as for ignoring the quotes from the fourth gospel, might be that the question is being interpreted in a different way.

The closest to the original question that I would ask is this:
What did the historical Jesus of Nazareth believe was required for salvation, assuming he believed salvation was necessary?

Naturally, I would then ignore the fourth gospel and the epistles.

For a Christian it is more likely to be this:
What does the New Testament present as the requirement for salvation?

Here, all the gospels and the epistles would be worth consulting.

Some Christians, however, might also pose this question:
If someone had approached Jesus of Nazareth and asked him what was required for salvation, what reply would they have got?

This last question seems to be what is behind the original post, although the original poster may wish to dispute this.

RabbiKnife

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2023, 04:59:05 PM »
Jesus always had one response… “follow me”

Danger, Will Robinson.  You will be assimilated, confiscated, folded, mutilated, and spindled. Do not pass go.  Turn right on red. Third star to the right and full speed 'til morning.

Fenris

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2023, 07:28:17 PM »
One reason for ignoring the Galatians quote, as well as for ignoring the quotes from the fourth gospel, might be that the question is being interpreted in a different way.

The closest to the original question that I would ask is this:
What did the historical Jesus of Nazareth believe was required for salvation, assuming he believed salvation was necessary?
This is a fair question to ask. As Jewish person I have my own ideas on the matter which I have discussed in the past. However, we come to this...

Quote
For a Christian it is more likely to be this:
What does the New Testament present as the requirement for salvation?
Christians have their own understanding of both bibles, and what they have concluded is established doctrine. The fact that you or I might understand the bibles differently isn't going to alter Christian belief.

meshak

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2023, 10:28:43 PM »
Jesus always had one response… “follow me”

What He is saying is to be faithful to Him.

meshak

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2023, 10:30:25 PM »


You're cherry-picking verses to support your view.

do you think without following Jesus' word you will have salvation?

I dont think so.

meshak

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2023, 10:32:52 PM »

Why are you ignoring the Galatians quote? ]/quote]

Jesus says He is the Teacher.

Why do you ignore His word?

I am Jesus' follower.

I point to Jesus' word.


ProDeo

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2023, 03:46:09 AM »


You're cherry-picking verses to support your view.

do you think without following Jesus' word you will have salvation?

I dont think so.

Well, there goes your minimum requirement of Matthew 19:16-19 :)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 03:50:05 AM by ProDeo »

meshak

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2023, 08:26:49 AM »


Well, there goes your minimum requirement of Matthew 19:16-19 :)

What is your point?

You did not add anything that contradicts what I quoted.

In fact, you just repeated what I quoted.

good day, friend.

RabbiKnife

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2023, 08:31:13 AM »
Jesus said to sell everything, give it to the poor, and follow him

Have you obeyed and sold everything you own and given it away to the poor?

Using your logic, …
Danger, Will Robinson.  You will be assimilated, confiscated, folded, mutilated, and spindled. Do not pass go.  Turn right on red. Third star to the right and full speed 'til morning.

Fenris

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2023, 11:04:50 AM »
Jesus says He is the Teacher.
He's not my teacher. I don't consider the NT to be holy writ. But you do, and so you are obligated by the totality of the works. Not just the parts you like or agree with.

DavidGYoung

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2023, 11:57:57 AM »
There is a set of instructions for salvation which Christians believe can be found in the Bible, including the gospels, the epistles and the Tanakh/Septuagint/Old Testament.

The question which looks most similar to the one the original poster is asking, from what I can tell, is this:

Why did Jesus give the instructions he gave to the rich young ruler when he was asked about obtaining eternal life?

The relevance of this question is that this appears to be the only time Jesus is actually asked about such instructions. On other occasions he says things which Christians take as instructions, but not in response to such a direct question. For example, Nicodemus does not ask 'What must a man do in order to enter the kingdom of heaven?'.

meshak

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Re: What is requirement for salvation?
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2023, 05:13:35 PM »


Why did Jesus give the instructions he gave to the rich young ruler when he was asked about obtaining eternal life?



Because Jesus wants all His followers to give all you got to follow Him.

Remember what I showed was a minimum requirement for salvation.

Jesus' standard is perfection for His followers.

 

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