Lectori Salutem

[DLH]

Get the cardiac issue squared away.

That’s got to be a priority

Well, of course, but I had my first heart attack over a decade ago. I've been on meds since, had a quadruple bipass, biventricular ICD, etc. Not much more I can do about those issues.

[Athanasius]

Do you think it would be possible for us to have a meaningful and respectful discourse?

I realise you've asked Fenris this but I'll answer for the board itself: yeah, sure. If you really mean it. But you know there's this tendency of people to talk about it, and then they I say something, and then it turns into this whole thing.

I am of the opinion that in general, organized religion leaves little to be respected but the individual beliefs of other's should be respected no matter what they are or how much or little thought they may have put into it.

Surely, you don't really mean that?

In short, it's none of my business. But, on the other hand interpretation, doctrine, etc. varies a great deal. I think the variation becomes problematic only when ideological fixation becomes insistence.

Such as?

When someone tells me that it isn't Christian to believe in the immortal soul of Socrates, the trinity of Plato, hell from Dante and Milton, the cross from Constantine, Easter from Ishtar, Christmas from Saturnalia you friend Fenris may or may not see the point in that but many Christians would object to it. Me, I understand that I have my reasons for rejecting those things but others do not.

And of Dionysus?

So, what do you believe?

From an intellectual or academic - theological perspective, it becomes a matter of scripture over doctrine. Immortal soul Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A or Ezekiel 18:4 and Matthew 10:28, but those aforementioned intellectual, academic, theological perspectives are between the individual and their God. I'm not the arbiter of those things. We can civilly discuss our variations but we can't enforce them. When it becomes a matter of ideological fixation posting on forums isn't possible if one doesn't agree with the general consensus. I discovered that with unbelieving forums.

See, you're like, anticipating that we're not going to be civil, or something. That's just not cool.

Anyway, I'm having these terrible chest pains like I had when I had my first set of (6) heart attacks so I'm distracted and my concentration isn't what it normally is, but I'm going to give it my best shot. Keeping in mind for the reader, that my variation in belief doesn't intend to negate or supersede your own.

Why are you posting at all if you're having terrible chest pains? Go to the doctor -- Kierkegaard's dear reader will be here when you return.

[DLH]

I realise you've asked Fenris this but I'll answer for the board itself: yeah, sure.

Sure. It's a public forum. I appreciate participation.

If you really mean it. But you know there's this tendency of people to talk about it, and then they I say something, and then it turns into this whole thing.

Of course. And that goes both ways. People say they are open to discussion but they aren't. I bring it to the attention of the reader in hopes of preventing that, and making any such possibility transparent. People make excuses. I expect it. Still. Remember. We are both open to discussion and civil disagreement.

Surely, you don't really mean that?

Of course I do. Absolutely. Is that surprising?

Such as?

Uh - Christian nationalism, Shinto royal family during WW II, inquisition, crusades, Rwanda, Arabs killing Jews, Jews killing Christians, Christians killing pagans, history. Humans being. My 30 plus years of experience with Christians and atheists. Etc.

And of Dionysus?

What, specifically, about Dionysus?

So, what do you believe?

Lots of things. Mostly I believe the Bible to be the imperfect, fallible uninspired translation of the perfect, infallible, inspired word of Jehovah God. I direct you to my website, the Pathway Machine. I've been working on the latest iteration for about 6 months.

It reveals a great deal about what I believe and of my interests.

See, you're like, anticipating that we're not going to be civil, or something. That's just not cool.

Sometimes, the truth is foreseeable and not so cool. I could be wrong. I give you the benefit of the doubt, otherwise I wouldn't be here. But I would be surprised if it turned out other than what I expect. Surprise me. Plus, you have to consider that your expectations of me are probably not so different. That, too, would be expected.

Why are you posting at all if you're having terrible chest pains? Go to the doctor -- Kierkegaard's dear reader will be here when you return.

Perhaps I didn't make myself entirely clear. The discomfort only makes it difficult for me to concentrate as I would like to do given the importance of the discussion and all due respect. I have medicine, including Nitroglycerin, a pacemaker with defibrillator (ICD implant) four doctors, including cardiologist and pulmonologist, all of which I've seen in the last month or so, and an emergency room within about a five minute drive.

My discomfort, which I can do little for, and have taken all precautions against, are simply too distracting and resulted in my abstaining more than I normally would have since my condition worsened after joining the forum.   

[Athanasius]

Sure. It's a public forum. I appreciate participation.

In the words of that world famous band the Crash Test Dummies, mmm mmm mmm mmm. Actually, I'm going to go put that on.

Of course. And that goes both ways. People say they are open to discussion but they aren't. I bring it to the attention of the reader in hopes of preventing that, and making any such possibility transparent. People make excuses. I expect it. Still. Remember. We are both open to discussion and civil disagreement.

Uh huh, well, I'm kind of on a remembering recharge as the 5th was just a few days ago. 😅

Of course I do. Absolutely. Is that surprising?

You don't think someone would find it surprising to hear that you think someone's belief in female genital mutilation, eugenics, or the supposed superiority of one race over another, should be respected? I mean you say 'in general' followed by 'no matter what they are' so surely it does matter in some cases what those beliefs are? You're not saying we should respect the belief a person holds in child brides or virginity testing... or maybe you're saying you do?

Uh - Christian nationalism, Shinto royal family during WW II, inquisition, crusades, Rwanda, Arabs killing Jews, Jews killing Christians, Christians killing pagans, history. Humans being. My 30 plus years of experience with Christians and atheists. Etc.

Oh, I was expecting something about interpretation and doctrine, like, "ideological fixation on the doctrine of the Trinity becomes a problem when it insists the Arian is not saved". So anyway thisbegs the question

What's the variation on Christian nationalism, the Shinto royal Family, the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, and the rest of your list?

What, specifically, about Dionysus?

I'm wondering if you also reject Jesus' first miracle as being too Dionysian. I'm asking, what is the difference between "this is too much like Horus", and "yeah totally this is it this is the thing this is fine"?

Lots of things. Mostly I believe the Bible to be the imperfect, fallible uninspired translation of the perfect, infallible, inspired word of Jehovah God. I direct you to my website, the Pathway Machine. I've been working on the latest iteration for about 6 months.

It reveals a great deal about what I believe and of my interests.

And you have access to the perfect, infallible, inspired word of YHWH?

Sometimes, the truth is foreseeable and not so cool. I could be wrong. I give you the benefit of the doubt, otherwise I wouldn't be here. But I would be surprised if it turned out other than what I expect. Surprise me. Plus, you have to consider that your expectations of me are probably not so different. That, too, would be expected.

I don't think anyone here is going to be surprising you, nor you us.

Perhaps I didn't make myself entirely clear. The discomfort only makes it difficult for me to concentrate as I would like to do given the importance of the discussion and all due respect. I have medicine, including Nitroglycerin, a pacemaker with defibrillator (ICD implant) four doctors, including cardiologist and pulmonologist, all of which I've seen in the last month or so, and an emergency room within about a five minute drive.

Oh, uh, why is this discussion especially important?

My discomfort, which I can do little for, and have taken all precautions against, are simply too distracting and resulted in my abstaining more than I normally would have since my condition worsened after joining the forum.   

3 days here is pretty intense.

Oh, one last thing, just let me find my notebook here it's somewhere I could hav... ah, here it is. Yes, I've removed your signature link because, advertising and cross-linking nuh uh no way.

[Fenris]

I have never belonged to any political or religious group, but my beliefs are similar (though not exactly the same) as the Jehovah's Witnesses. Do you think it would be possible for us to have a meaningful and respectful discourse?

I can't speak for the others as I'm sort of a resident outsider myself. But I've never received anything but love and respect from the regulars here.

[Fenris]

We can certainly be respectful and have discussion, but you must know that is a Christian forum that isn’t bashful about its faith.

Various stripes of Christians, and of course, our friend Fenris, a devout son of Abraham, who probably knows more Christian’s theology than half the folks in your typical evangelical church on any given Sunday.

Fenris is also a deep well of info on all things Jewish, both faith and culture… and is a long loved friend.  We try not to eat bacon in front of him.

This is just about the nicest thing that anyone's ever said to me. May God bless you and be gracious to you always.

[Fenris]

Oh, one last thing, just let me find my notebook here it's somewhere I could hav... ah, here it is. Yes, I've removed your signature link because, advertising and cross-linking nuh uh no way.

You're a meanie.

[DLH]

Oh, one last thing, just let me find my notebook here it's somewhere I could hav... ah, here it is. Yes, I've removed your signature link because, advertising and cross-linking nuh uh no way.

You're a meanie.

See, you're like, anticipating that we're not going to be civil, or something. That's just not cool.

[Athanasius]

Lump sat alone in a boggy marsh... But how about Mazie?

[Fenris]

Lump sat alone in a boggy marsh... But how about Mazie?

This just gave me a flashback

[Athanasius]

Lump sat alone in a boggy marsh... But how about Mazie?

This just gave me a flashback

A certified classic