US National Debt

[Sojourner]

We know the debt has exceeded 34 trillion and is steadily increasing, but watching the 2 million dollars per minute increase in real time, is a sobering sight.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

[RabbiKnife]

We can just print some more to cover the interest

We can’t be out of money…. We still have checks in the checkbook…

[Fenris]

There's no small government party anymore.

Unbelievably, if we set government spending to 2019 levels, we'd be running a surplus. But it's not even a talking point.

[tango]

When interest payments exceed defense spending you know the empire is in trouble. Guess which nation is soon to join that not-so-prestigious club?

[tango]

When interest payments exceed defense spending you know the empire is in trouble. Guess which nation is soon to join that not-so-prestigious club?

For more cheerful thoughts, what happens as more and more of the debt has to be refinanced at current interest rates?

If you owe $34,000,000,000,000 and have to pay 5% interest on it that means $1,700,000,000,000 in interest every year. At that point you're looking at something like $3.2m per minute in interest payments.

The Federal Reserve could monetise the debt but given what happened to inflation when the government pumped a few trillion into the economy we can only guess how ugly it might be if the Fed suddenly started throwing tens of trillions of dollars of extra money around.

As the old question goes, "where are we going and what are we doing in this handbasket?"

[RabbiKnife]

I like my position

No debt
Investments are liquid
Moderate cost of living

Grow a lot of our own food in the summer

As soon as internet rates on CDs go to 18%, I’m locking the whole thing in for 5 years, using actual cash on hand to buy only the necessities.

And ka- CHInG!

[tango]

I like my position

No debt
Investments are liquid
Moderate cost of living

Grow a lot of our own food in the summer

As soon as internet rates on CDs go to 18%, I’m locking the whole thing in for 5 years, using actual cash on hand to buy only the necessities.

And ka- CHInG!

If the Fed starts pumping trillions into the economy to monetise the kind of debt that's going to be needed I'm not sure that 18% would turn out to be a good rate to lock in for 5 years.

I've often thought about growing my own food but without a means to protect it you just end up feeding an army of hungry others who won't necessarily leave you any. I've been toying with the idea of turning part of my roof into a flat space for a rooftop garden, so it still gets the sun and rain and pollination by bugs but isn't so easily raidable. I just don't know how strong the supports would need to be, and whether I could get away with it as far as things like code are concerned. The joists I've got there look like they are probably 2x8s - maybe I wouldn't need as much soil as I'm thinking I might need. And it would have the added advantage that things like voles wouldn't be able to get at it.

I'm not sure I'd try growing fruit trees in a rooftop garden though. That might not end well.

[RabbiKnife]

I like my position

No debt
Investments are liquid
Moderate cost of living

Grow a lot of our own food in the summer

As soon as internet rates on CDs go to 18%, I’m locking the whole thing in for 5 years, using actual cash on hand to buy only the necessities.

And ka- CHInG!

If the Fed starts pumping trillions into the economy to monetise the kind of debt that's going to be needed I'm not sure that 18% would turn out to be a good rate to lock in for 5 years.

I've often thought about growing my own food but without a means to protect it you just end up feeding an army of hungry others who won't necessarily leave you any. I've been toying with the idea of turning part of my roof into a flat space for a rooftop garden, so it still gets the sun and rain and pollination by bugs but isn't so easily raidable. I just don't know how strong the supports would need to be, and whether I could get away with it as far as things like code are concerned. The joists I've got there look like they are probably 2x8s - maybe I wouldn't need as much soil as I'm thinking I might need. And it would have the added advantage that things like voles wouldn't be able to get at it.

I'm not sure I'd try growing fruit trees in a rooftop garden though. That might not end well.

Rooftop hydroponics

Water/nutrient supply at ground level with a pump up to roof

You would have negligible weight on roof

[tango]

I like my position

No debt
Investments are liquid
Moderate cost of living

Grow a lot of our own food in the summer

As soon as internet rates on CDs go to 18%, I’m locking the whole thing in for 5 years, using actual cash on hand to buy only the necessities.

And ka- CHInG!

If the Fed starts pumping trillions into the economy to monetise the kind of debt that's going to be needed I'm not sure that 18% would turn out to be a good rate to lock in for 5 years.

I've often thought about growing my own food but without a means to protect it you just end up feeding an army of hungry others who won't necessarily leave you any. I've been toying with the idea of turning part of my roof into a flat space for a rooftop garden, so it still gets the sun and rain and pollination by bugs but isn't so easily raidable. I just don't know how strong the supports would need to be, and whether I could get away with it as far as things like code are concerned. The joists I've got there look like they are probably 2x8s - maybe I wouldn't need as much soil as I'm thinking I might need. And it would have the added advantage that things like voles wouldn't be able to get at it.

I'm not sure I'd try growing fruit trees in a rooftop garden though. That might not end well.

Rooftop hydroponics

Water/nutrient supply at ground level with a pump up to roof

You would have negligible weight on roof

Physically getting at the roof isn't a problem, I can run a pipe to feed exactly where I want it to be. Hydroponics is an interesting idea, I hadn't considered that. I just need to figure what weight of water I'd need to grow anything in useful quantities.

To keep things better protected you've got me thinking about a nutrient supply in the basement with pipes running to where they need to be. I guess they'd want to be PEX so they didn't freeze in the winter.

Maybe creating a flat roof garden is a viable proposition. I'm still not sure what, if anything, building code would say about it. But as a preliminary process I'd just replace a very old roof with a new roof, and the new roof would be flat. Then later on I'd figure that the new roof was flat enough to walk out onto, purely in order to provide access to repair it and the main roof. Not for leisure use, as that would require railings and all sorts of other things. But maybe in the future someone might decide that it was easy to install a railing so it could be useable outdoor space.

This could work....