Born of water

[DavidGYoung]

The term 'born of water' quite obviously means baptism, as the context of the Fourth Gospel and the activity of the church at the time it was written clearly show.

Is this a massively controversial thing to say?

[RabbiKnife]

I don’t know any serious evangelical scholars that interpret that passage that way

Born of water refers to physical birth

[The Parson]

The embryonic fluid inside my momma's belly... That water.

[Cloudwalker]

Here n the verses in question

5Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

Verse 5 references "water and the Spirit."  Jesus then goes on to say "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit."  By going on this way Christ is clearely referencing physical birth when he talks about "water" which makes "water" the embryonic water of physical birth as Parson says.

[DavidGYoung]

In order for you to be born again, you must first be born.



Right.


...


Seriously?

[RabbiKnife]

Basic biology

[DavidGYoung]

How to look like Charles Atlas in just twenty-eight days:

Step one:
Be born.
Step two:
Send a cheque or postal order for fifteen pounds to this address.
Step three:
Unpack the patented....


How to make an omelette:

Step one:
Be born.
Step two:
Break four eggs into a glass bowl.
Etc.


You do know that 'born of water' is not used in any part of the Jewish writings that precede the date the Fourth Gospel was written, don't you? On top of that, the Jesus-Nicodemus exchange is placed just one chapter after John The Baptist's piece.

[RabbiKnife]

And John travolta starred in Grease.

[Athanasius]

How to look like Charles Atlas in just twenty-eight days:

Step one:
Be born.
Step two:
Send a cheque or postal order for fifteen pounds to this address.
Step three:
Unpack the patented....


How to make an omelette:

Step one:
Be born.
Step two:
Break four eggs into a glass bowl.
Etc.


You do know that 'born of water' is not used in any part of the Jewish writings that precede the date the Fourth Gospel was written, don't you? On top of that, the Jesus-Nicodemus exchange is placed just one chapter after John The Baptist's piece.

And to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. Sagan was such a joker.

Why do you say such controversial things so controversially? (I don't hold to the physical birth view fyi.)

[watchinginawe]

...
You do know that 'born of water' is not used in any part of the Jewish writings that precede the date the Fourth Gospel was written, don't you?

I'm a newbie weighing in. I'm not so sure that there isn't any kind of precedent for this reference.

Isaiah 48:1 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the Lord , and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.

In the above verse, we see those who are born as Jews by heritage but did not call upon the name of the Lord "in truth, nor in righteousness". They believed their inherited standing with God was assured by their birth alone.

Nicodemus certainly would have understood heritage by birth as a member of the Sanhedrin. Nicodemus clearly questioned if the second birth were to be like the first, from the womb. Jesus explained that the second birth was by Spirit and not by flesh. I don't see how baptism enters the conversation at all to be honest.

It's born again, not born a second and third time IMO.

Blessings,