What Makes A Person Jewish?

[Fenris]

I understand those things in spiritual way,

Right. A "spiritual" way. Because you don't keep them.

It's not about me. It's about recognizing the insanity of thinking Jews who followed Jesus were misguided,

Why is it insane? You believe that Jews who don't follow Jesus are misguided. Why do you get to define sanity?

I'm not covering my eyes. God sprinkles his people with water after repentance. So,

be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. Eze.36:32

And that's what He did when people realized the innocent Messiah was put to death.

The chapter also talks about the gathering of the Jewish exiles before this verse. Which did not happen then, its happening now. Oops.

Oh I'm not ignoring what the Messiah said the scriptures say about himself. I was a cop too and like you, tempered my authority to enforce the laws of my State with a lot of mercy. Even so, it took me a long time to understand Paul when he said,

the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless  1Tim.1:9

Which has nothing to do with actual messianic prophecy being fulfilled in our lifetimes. But keep changing the subject.

[Athanasius]

As a person with faith who also attempts to follow all of the bible's laws, I find that believing in God is the easy part.

The disagreement between Paul and the Jerusalem church on circumcision is what ended defining Christianity. Sure it was easier. No circumcisions and no following of biblical law.

What I get out of this is:

- Jewish faith is more challenging because Jews must follow all of the Bible's laws.
- Christian faith is less challenging because Christians don't follow (all of) the Bible's laws.
- Believing in God is easy (relative to following all of the Bible's laws); therefore, Christianity is easy because Christians aren't concerned with following (all of) the Bible's laws.
- Following the Bible's laws is challenging; therefore, Judaism is more challenging than Christianity.

You're not suffering an upset stomach or headache?

[journeyman]

Right. A "spiritual" way. Because you don't keep them.

No, it's because that's the way the Messiah explained them.

Why is it insane? You believe that Jews who don't follow Jesus are misguided. Why do you get to define sanity?

I just told you why it's crazy...twice.

The chapter also talks about the gathering of the Jewish exiles before this verse. Which did not happen then, its happening now. Oops.

It happens when people are gathered to God through Jesus.

Which has nothing to do with actual messianic prophecy being fulfilled in our lifetimes. But keep changing the subject.

The holy Spirit is being given to Gods' people. He has been since the Messiah conquered death.

[Rebecca]

Does conduct have any bearing on whether someone is Jewish?

No.

Someone is Jewish under Jewish law if their mother is Jewish, or if they follow a proper conversion.

There is no opt-out clause. Jews can be good or bad, religiously observant or not. They can be lapsed and heretical. But in all cases they remain Jews.

I chose not to read the whole thread maybe this thought was brought up ...
Christian Scriptures tell me Rahab and Ruth are grandmothers of Jesus. If fact, in your opinion would/should/could that have any bearing on the Jewishness of Jesus?

[Fenris]

I chose not to read the whole thread maybe this thought was brought up ...
Christian Scriptures tell me Rahab and Ruth are grandmothers of Jesus. If fact, in your opinion would/should/could that have any bearing on the Jewishness of Jesus?

Ruth was a convert to Judaism. She tells her mother in law Naomi, "Wherever you go, I will go, and wherever you live, I will live; your people will be my people, and your God will be my God."

I am uncertain of the source for Rahab. I think it is in the NT. I do not believe there is a Jewish source for that.

[Sojourner]

Why is it a person Jewish based on his mother, rather than his father?

[Fenris]

Why is it a person Jewish based on his mother, rather than his father?

First of all, the stories in the bible. Abraham has many children, but only one from Sara, and Isaac is the only one who continues in the covenant. Isaac has two sons, both presumably Jewish, but Esau marries Hitties and Ishmaelites and so his descendants are not Jews.

In the book of Ezra chapter 9, it is brought to his attention that "They have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons" and in the following chapter they are ordered to separate from their foreign wives. The issue of foreign husbands is never brought up. That seems to tell us that foreign husbands were not problematic as the children were Jews.

The original source that the Talmud cites in Deuteronomy 7. Verse 3 is an injunction against intermarriage - You shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughter to his son, and you shall not take his daughter for your son. This prohibits marrying either gender. The following verse is more interesting - For he will turn away your son from following Me, and they will worship the gods of others, and the wrath of the Lord will be kindled against you... The first part of the verse "For he will turn away your son from following Me", the "He" being the foreign husband, and "your son" actually being "your grandson." The point being, the gentile husband will teach your grandson, who is Jewish because his mother is, to worship other gods. It doesn't say "she will turn away" because if the mother is gentile, the grandson is not Jewish anyway.

[Sojourner]

You know that Christians believe God supernaturally fertilized Mary's ovum to cause Jesus' conception. Since God has no DNA, the Jewish mother principle provides for Jesus' Jewishness. As if by design. 

[Fenris]

You know that Christians believe God supernaturally fertilized Mary's ovum to cause Jesus' conception. Since God has no DNA, the Jewish mother principle provides for Jesus' Jewishness. As if by design. 

Problematically, the tribal affiliation comes from the father's side. See Numbers 1:2 "Take the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, by families following their fathers' houses..."

Jesus can't be a descendant of king David and thus eligible for the throne if his father wasn't.

[RabbiKnife]

See Matthew chapter 1

[Sojourner]

Mary provides Jesus' Jewish DNA, while God Himself decrees His Son's right to the throne as messiah. (See Psalms 2).

[Cloudwalker]

I chose not to read the whole thread maybe this thought was brought up ...
Christian Scriptures tell me Rahab and Ruth are grandmothers of Jesus. If fact, in your opinion would/should/could that have any bearing on the Jewishness of Jesus?

Ruth was a convert to Judaism. She tells her mother in law Naomi, "Wherever you go, I will go, and wherever you live, I will live; your people will be my people, and your God will be my God."

I am uncertain of the source for Rahab. I think it is in the NT. I do not believe there is a Jewish source for that.

For Rahab try with Joshua when entering The Promised Land.  Joshua sent spies into Jerico and Rahab hid them.

[Fenris]

See Matthew chapter 1

That's not how adoption works in Judaism. Adoption is a big Mitzvah, but it does not confer tribal affiliation nor right to the throne. Or priesthood for that matter.

[Fenris]

Mary provides Jesus' Jewish DNA, while God Himself decrees His Son's right to the throne as messiah.

This is irrelevant. You can't sell Jesus as being from the line of David when his father is not, in fact, from the line of David.

(See Psalms 2).

This Psalm is about David.

[Fenris]

For Rahab try with Joshua when entering The Promised Land.  Joshua sent spies into Jerico and Rahab hid them.

I know who Rahab is. I don't have any source in my bible that says that Rahab is an ancestor of king David.