What Makes A Person Jewish?

[journeyman]

Post 54 claims that you said "God blessed Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, along with all the Jewish people", but you never said it prior to post 54.
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Ok. I'm saying it now. The Jewish people have been blessed by God like no other. I must qualify my statement by adding, until Jesus came. Since then, we're all blessed.

It's not in the Koran, it's in the bible. I even cited the source, Genesis 17:

God also said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. I will bless her and will surely give you a son by her. I will bless her so that she will be the mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her.”

 Abraham fell facedown; he laughed and said to himself, “Will a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?” And Abraham said to God, “If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!”

Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.”

I was referring to where the Quaran says Allah sent Abraham a dream about sacrificing his only son (meaning Ishmael in  Islam.)

Also more strictly monotheistic. And both consider actions more important that faith.

I think action is the result of faith and I believe in one God.

[Athanasius]

Christianity believes in a triune God.

A triunity of persons within the 'Godhead', not tritheism or anything approaching it.

[RabbiKnife]

Also, the popular caricature  of "faith" in some circles as being something wholly foreign to historic Judaic faith is a bit of a red herring.

Paul's use of the word "faith" always means not only a total reliance and dependence upon something believed, but also a practical outworking of demonstration of that faith by means of action.  Paul has no concept of "faith" to mean "intellectual or mental assent" without accompanying works demonstrating the reality of that belief.

Just as James says.

Just as Abraham did.  A work of righteousness without faith is just a thing done; it has no value about from faith.

[journeyman]

Paul said the law applies to believers,

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom.3:31

This is not to say Paul was in favor of having any body parts removed.

[Fenris]

A triunity of persons within the 'Godhead', not tritheism or anything approaching it.

This is how Christians see it. From the outside however it is less strictly monotheistic than Judaism. Which has no bearing on whether such beliefs are correct or not.

[Fenris]

Also, the popular caricature  of "faith" in some circles as being something wholly foreign to historic Judaic faith is a bit of a red herring.

I would not say "wholly foreign." But in Judaism the belief is less important than the deed.

Paul's use of the word "faith" always means not only a total reliance and dependence upon something believed, but also a practical outworking of demonstration of that faith by means of action. 

And yet the same Paul says that salvation is via faith. Which has two problems for the Jewish listener. Firstly, "salvation" in the Christian sense doesn't even exist in Judaism. Secondly, in Judaism it is the deed that counts. God doesn't introduce a set of 613 laws that exhaustively covers every aspect of human behavior only to say "but belief is what's really important".

A work of righteousness without faith is just a thing done; it has no value about from faith.

Not in Judaism.

[Fenris]

Paul said the law applies to believers,

Paul doesn't even claim that the law applies to himself. 1 Corinthians 9 To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law.

[Athanasius]

This is how Christians see it. From the outside however it is less strictly monotheistic than Judaism. Which has no bearing on whether such beliefs are correct or not.

Christianity is as strictly monotheistic as Judaism is, and Christians have fiercely defended this against not only accusations of tritheism but misunderstandings of Trinitarian doctrine, to say nothing of non-Trinitarian theologies.

Christian discussion on the ontology of God (as presumptuous as that is) is nothing more than that: ontology. It is no more the suggestion that a human isn't a single entity because she has skin as well as bones.

[journeyman]

Paul doesn't even claim that the law applies to himself. 1 Corinthians 9 To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law.

It seems that was, until you read the next verse which says,

To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 1Cor.9:21

There were Jewish students of Jesus who believed gentile converts needed to be circumcised to be saved. It's obvious Paul means he's not under the (condemnation of the) law.

[Fenris]

Christianity is as strictly monotheistic as Judaism is, and Christians have fiercely defended this against not only accusations of tritheism but misunderstandings of Trinitarian doctrine, to say nothing of non-Trinitarian theologies.

As you say.

[Fenris]

There were Jewish students of Jesus who believed gentile converts needed to be circumcised to be saved.

As Jews believe that converts need to be circumcised to become Jewish.

Paul still says that he isn't under the law.

[Athanasius]

Christianity is as strictly monotheistic as Judaism is, and Christians have fiercely defended this against not only accusations of tritheism but misunderstandings of Trinitarian doctrine, to say nothing of non-Trinitarian theologies.

As the argument goes.

We have such concepts as:

- Monotheism: belief in one God
- Bitheism: belief in two gods
- Tritheism: belief in three gods

And so forth.

When we discuss the Jewish and Christian conceptions of God, we aren't moving from Monotheism in the case of Judaism to Monotheism-but-not-quite-but-not-bitheism-or-tritheism-either in the case of Christianity. What is under discussion is the one God of Judaism and Christianity. We would be warranted in claiming that the Jewish and Christian understandings of God are dissimilar - and that's to say nothing on the question of who the object of our praise is - but we wouldn't be warranted in claiming that Judaism is more "strictly" monotheistic than Christianity because, well, there are no other gods in Christianity.

I don't think it works either to claim that one essence with one person is more "strictly" monotheistic than one essence with three persons, as it's still one essence.

[Fenris]

I don't think it works either to claim that one essence with one person is more "strictly" monotheistic than one essence with three persons, as it's still one essence.

I understand that this is the Christian perspective. Again, outsiders view it differently. This may come as a surprise, but under Jewish law one is permitted to pray in a mosque but not in a church for exactly this reason.

[journeyman]

As Jews believe that converts need to be circumcised to become Jewish.

Paul still says that he isn't under the law.

Paul learned the meaning of circumcision, which is walking with our Lord. He found out that circumcision is meaningless without walking with God.

[Athanasius]

I understand that this is the Christian perspective. Again, outsiders view it differently. This may come as a surprise, but under Jewish law one is permitted to pray in a mosque but not in a church for exactly this reason.

I'm not sure why it would come as a surprise as I've said myself that the understandings of God are dissimilar, but to the point, this doesn't lead us to a "strict" vs "less-strict" monotheism