Daniel 12:12

[ProDeo]

Context first

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.

8 I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, “O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?”

9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

10 Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.

12 Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.

13 But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days.”

---------

End of the book of Daniel.

IMO it is one of the 2 prophecies from Daniel about AD 70, the other one in 9:26-27

I am wondering about v12 and the difference of the 45 days.

As for a guess, Jesus in Matt chapter 24 speaking about AD 70 points to Daniel.

15 - So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place

And some verses further also says:

40 - Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.
41 - Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.

And it makes me wonder if Jesus is not predicting what is known as the rapture, saving the faithful, leaving the unbelievers behind.

Now of course we have been always told Matt 24 is about Jesus second coming and still to happen but reading Matt 24 is full of warnings to remain alert and faithful which may point to the mysterious 45 days in Daniel 12:12, those people who are called blessed. In 24:22 Jesus is speaking about the elect, he might as well also pointed to Daniel 12:12.

Another point that favors the rapture in AD 70 is that Jesus is constantly speaking of this generation and many hearing Jesus in ~AD30 would be alive in AD 70.

Alright, I am in agreement what RK said recently, you can extract any crazy story / theory from the Scriptures but this one would at least solve some serious end time problems and I found it interesting enough to post.

[Fenris]

Another point that favors the rapture in AD 70 is that Jesus is constantly speaking of this generation and many hearing Jesus in ~AD30 would be alive in AD 70.

The average lifespan at the time was only about 30 years or so. If the average listener to Jesus was 20, they'd be 60 by the year 70, or double the average lifespan. It seems unlikely that most would still be alive, or even many.

[RabbiKnife]

Yeah, but “average” is in many ways statistically meaningless

After all, in Lake Woebegone, all the children are above average…

😱

[Fenris]

Yeah, but “average” is in many ways statistically meaningless

Especially when making a theological point I guess.

[theMad-JW]

Daniel was prophesying that the dead would be resurrected at a future time- not as it is in Church Dogma!

[CadyandZoe]

It seems to me that Daniel 12:11-12 predicts Antiochus Epiphanes IV.

[RabbiKnife]

I think that is correct.

[David Taylor]

some verses further also says:

40 - Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.
41 - Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.

And it makes me wonder if Jesus is not predicting what is known as the rapture, saving the faithful, leaving the unbelievers behind.
 

Matthew 24’s “taken” passages are of wicked people “taken” to destruction, not a rapture of believers.
Luke’s parallel Olivet Discourse passage gives more detail and makes this much clearer than Matthew does.

The wicked are ‘taken to destruction’ on the day the son of man is revealed.


Luke 17: 23-37 “And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot ; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day , he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken , and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken , and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken , and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, (Taken)Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the [vultures] be gathered together.”



Jeremiah often made this similar phraseology of the wicked dead carcasses being feed upon by the carrion fowls.

Jer 7:33 - And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth

Jer 16:4 - They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven

Jer 19:7 - And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven

Jer 34:20 - I will even give them into the hand of their enemies, and into the hand of them that seek their life: and their dead bodies shall be for meat unto the fowls of the heiaven

[RabbiKnife]

Our pastor has been working through the Olivet Discourse  the last three weeks

As he says, the OD is not a timeline but a lifeline.

The theme is “be ready and don’t be afraid.  Not only am I coming back, I’ve got your back.”

[Titus]

Context first

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.

8 I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, “O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?”

9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

10 Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.

12 Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.

13 But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days.”

---------

End of the book of Daniel.

IMO it is one of the 2 prophecies from Daniel about AD 70, the other one in 9:26-27

I am wondering about v12 and the difference of the 45 days.

As for a guess, Jesus in Matt chapter 24 speaking about AD 70 points to Daniel.

15 - So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place

And some verses further also says:

40 - Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.
41 - Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.

And it makes me wonder if Jesus is not predicting what is known as the rapture, saving the faithful, leaving the unbelievers behind.

Now of course we have been always told Matt 24 is about Jesus second coming and still to happen but reading Matt 24 is full of warnings to remain alert and faithful which may point to the mysterious 45 days in Daniel 12:12, those people who are called blessed. In 24:22 Jesus is speaking about the elect, he might as well also pointed to Daniel 12:12.

Another point that favors the rapture in AD 70 is that Jesus is constantly speaking of this generation and many hearing Jesus in ~AD30 would be alive in AD 70.

Alright, I am in agreement what RK said recently, you can extract any crazy story / theory from the Scriptures but this one would at least solve some serious end time problems and I found it interesting enough to post.

The problem then becomes 1 Corinthians 15:23-24.

[Rebecca]

Context first

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.

8 I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, “O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?”

9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

10 Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.

12 Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.

13 But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days.”

---------

End of the book of Daniel.

IMO it is one of the 2 prophecies from Daniel about AD 70, the other one in 9:26-27

I am wondering about v12 and the difference of the 45 days.

As for a guess, Jesus in Matt chapter 24 speaking about AD 70 points to Daniel.

15 - So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place

And some verses further also says:

40 - Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.
41 - Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.

And it makes me wonder if Jesus is not predicting what is known as the rapture, saving the faithful, leaving the unbelievers behind.

Now of course we have been always told Matt 24 is about Jesus second coming and still to happen but reading Matt 24 is full of warnings to remain alert and faithful which may point to the mysterious 45 days in Daniel 12:12, those people who are called blessed. In 24:22 Jesus is speaking about the elect, he might as well also pointed to Daniel 12:12.

Another point that favors the rapture in AD 70 is that Jesus is constantly speaking of this generation and many hearing Jesus in ~AD30 would be alive in AD 70.

Alright, I am in agreement what RK said recently, you can extract any crazy story / theory from the Scriptures but this one would at least solve some serious end time problems and I found it interesting enough to post.

   Could there be a connection to ...Joshua's 45    years   Jos 14:9  And Moses sware on that day, saying, Surely the land whereon thy feet have trodden shall be thine inheritance, and thy children's for ever, because thou hast wholly followed the LORD my God. 
Jos 14:10  And now, behold, the LORD hath kept me alive, as he said, these forty and five years, even since the LORD spake this word unto Moses, while the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness: and now, lo, I am this day fourscore and five years old. 

[EmethAlethia]

What is the Great Outpouring of God’s wrath?

Rev 6:10  and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"

Rev 15:1  Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels who had seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished.

True Christians will be saved from God’s wrath.

Rom 5:9-10  Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.  (10)  For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Rom 8:1  Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:19-25

1Th 1:9-10  For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God,  (10)  and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

1Th 4:13-18  But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.  (14)  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.  (15)  For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.  (16)  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.  (17)  Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.  (18)  Therefore comfort one another with these words. (There is no comfort if this occurs after the tribulation. Those who become Christians after this event will thank God that they are killed because their trials are ended.)

1Th 5:9-11  For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,  (10)  who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.  (11)  Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.

The Antichrist cannot be revealed until He who restrains is taken out of the way.

2Th 2:1-12  Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,  (2)  that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.  (3)  Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,  (4)  who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.  (5)  Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?  (6)  And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. (7)  For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. (  Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;  (9)  that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with every power and sign and false wonder, (10)  and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.  (11)  For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,  (12)  in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Rev 6:16-17  and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;  (17)  for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

No being is powerful enough to restrain someone coming with all the power of Satan Himself, but God Himself:

2Th. 2:4  who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

(9)  that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,  (10)  and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

1Jn 4:3  and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. (There have been antichrists on the earth since the beginning awaiting but "He who restrains is still here.)

Satan is so powerful, he convinced 1/3 of the angels that were present when God laid the foundations of the earth that he could take God. Even the greatest of the remaining angelic beings won’t even say a word against him.

Jud 1:9  But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Yet there is “He” singular, this “one” being who restrains the one who is coming with all Satan’s power, wonders, signs … this one being must be taken out of the way first for the anti-Christ to be revealed.

Interesting facts: First: We are talking about One Being that is here on earth right now that has restrained the Anti-Christ from showing up until now. Second: The Holy Spirit who indwells every Christian could not come indwell us until Christ left. Logic and reason dictate that the One being restraining the Anti-Christ that will need to be removed is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit would need to depart for the anti-Christ to be revealed.

Joh 16:7-11  "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.  (  "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;  (9)  concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;  (10)  and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;  (11)  and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

But the Holy Spirit indwells us and cannot be removed until we receive our inheritance.

Rom 8:9  However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Eph 1:13-14  In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,  (14)  who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory. (A pledge cannot be taken back until the one who received the pledge receives what is promised.)
Logic and Reason: Since the only one with the power to restrain the power of  Satan possessed by the antichrist is God, and since it is a “Singular” being and not a plural entity that is doing the restraining, and since the Holy Spirit could not come until Jesus ascended to heaven to be with the Father, the Holy Spirit is the one who is restraining and must be taken away. That cannot occur until every true Christian receives their inheritance.

Everyone believed that the Rapture could occur at any moment.

1Co 15:22-26  For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.  (23)  But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,  (24)  then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.  (25)  For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.  (26)  The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

Php 3:18-21  For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,  (19)  whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.  (20)  For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;  (21)  who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

1Th 1:9-10  For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God,  (10)  and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

1Th 3:11-13  Now may our God and Father Himself and Jesus our Lord direct our way to you;  (12)  and may the Lord cause you to increase and abound in love for one another, and for all people, just as we also do for you;  (13)  so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.

1Th 5:1-6  Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you.  (2)  For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.  (3)  While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.  (4)  But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;  (5)  for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;  (6)  so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

1Th 5:23  Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Th. 2: 2  that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.  (3)  Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

Tit 2:12-13  instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,  (13)  looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Heb 10:37  FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.

Jas 5:7-8  Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.  (  You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.

2Pe 3:11-12  Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,  (12)  looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

1Jn 2:18  Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. (Antichrists have always been on the earth since the beginning awaiting He who Restrains being taken away.)

1Jn 2:28  Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.

Rev 1:1-8  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,  (2)  who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.  (3)  Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.  (4)  John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,  (5)  and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood--  (6)  and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.  (7)  BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.  (  "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Rev 22:7  "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book."

Rev 22:12  "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

Rev 22:20  He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

   
But God will postpone His coming for a while resulting in many wondering what has happened, even believing that the rapture already occurred.

2Pe 3:3-7  Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,  (4)  and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."  (5)  For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,  (6)  through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.  (7)  But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

The Vast Majority of the People who Believe Themselves to be Christians Aren’t and Will Therefore, Go Through the Tribulation:

I started a new topic on this one in this room. See “The Fruits of a Christian”

[RabbiKnife]

Tedious

[Athanasius]

Dead thread. Locking.