Moral Courage or Foolishness? Ukraine.

[RandyPNW]

Putin is not in charge in the Ukraine situation. But how far should NATO go? We don't want WW3, but it may be inevitable at some point in history. Can we speed this along, or must it happen only in God's time? Should we be afraid of precipitating WW3, or being that it is in God's domain, should we just do the right thing regardless? No Fly zone? Active military participation in Ukraine. Secret military involvement?

[RabbiKnife]

Or should we let one corrupt group beat up on a bother corrupt group?

[Athanasius]

Is there any reason to think the West is doing the wrong thing? There are of course black ops going on in Ukraine, and Ukraine's Foreign legion is attracting a suspiciously large number of ex-special ops / special forces types, to counter whoever it is Putin is sending in. It's going to be a pyrrhic victory for either side and trying to avoid WW3 and nuclear holocaust seems a smart thing to do.

Until it's inevitable NATO is making the right call, and Zelensky is starting to show his stress, so he needs to tone it down a bit. Putin is in the grips of paranoid insanity so who knows what he'll do.

[IMINXTC]

Russia is being played, by Putin, difficult as it is to witness. And unless things happen from within, there seems to be very little to staunch the hemorrhage. The fall of Russia, nukes notwithstanding.

[Fenris]

From a moral perspective, the Ukrainians have the right to not be invaded be their neighbor. From the Realpolitik perspective, it does not benefit us to allow a dictator to run amok.

Having said that, because Russia has nuclear weapons, and we want to avoid that confrontation, our aid to the Ukraine should be indirect. For now.

And speaking of nuclear weapons, why in God's name are we negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran right now? With Russia of all nations acting as intermediary? What's going on there actually bothers me more than the Ukraine situation (which bothers me a lot).

[journeyman]

Putin is not in charge in the Ukraine situation. But how far should NATO go? We don't want WW3, but it may be inevitable at some point in history. Can we speed this along, or must it happen only in God's time? Should we be afraid of precipitating WW3, or being that it is in God's domain, should we just do the right thing regardless? No Fly zone? Active military participation in Ukraine. Secret military involvement?

What "we" should do is,

put on the full armor of God, Eph.6:13

And then,

No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper Isa.54:17

[RandyPNW]

Or should we let one corrupt group beat up on a bother corrupt group?

Yes, that's been a major dilemma. We see all these heart-breaking pictures of people leaving in droves, losing their home and possessions, and their men. And yet biblically, we know that divine judgment comes to corrupt nations.

I'm watching the world reach out in compassion to the afflicted nation, with no ability to stop evil Putin. And so I ask the obvious questions. Thanks brother.

[RandyPNW]

Is there any reason to think the West is doing the wrong thing? There are of course black ops going on in Ukraine, and Ukraine's Foreign legion is attracting a suspiciously large number of ex-special ops / special forces types, to counter whoever it is Putin is sending in. It's going to be a pyrrhic victory for either side and trying to avoid WW3 and nuclear holocaust seems a smart thing to do.

Until it's inevitable NATO is making the right call, and Zelensky is starting to show his stress, so he needs to tone it down a bit. Putin is in the grips of paranoid insanity so who knows what he'll do.

I think that's spot on.

[RandyPNW]

Russia is being played, by Putin, difficult as it is to witness. And unless things happen from within, there seems to be very little to staunch the hemorrhage. The fall of Russia, nukes notwithstanding.

So would you agree with Lindsay Graham and Sean Hannity that generals around Putin should try to "take him out?" Not an American assassination, but one encouraged by American individuals outside of official govt policy?

[Fenris]

We see all these heart-breaking pictures of people leaving in droves, losing their home and possessions, and their men. And yet biblically, we know that divine judgment comes to corrupt nations.

What a horrible thing to say. God enjoins us to relieve human suffering, not point a finger and say "you deserved this".

[RabbiKnife]

Russia is being played, by Putin, difficult as it is to witness. And unless things happen from within, there seems to be very little to staunch the hemorrhage. The fall of Russia, nukes notwithstanding.

So would you agree with Lindsay Graham and Sean Hannity that generals around Putin should try to "take him out?" Not an American assassination, but one encouraged by American individuals outside of official govt policy?

I would agree that is the epitome of pride, arrogance, and God complex to suggest that people should be murdered.  Putin is none of our business as a nation until he begins harming our people and our national interests.  Calls for assassination are nothing short of criminal.

[Fenris]

Putin is none of our business as a nation until he begins harming our people and our national interests. 

By running amok, Putin is harming our national interests. By being willing to tolerate a world in which dictators may attack their neighbors, we create a world in which more dictators will attack their neighbors. And what about our obligation not to stand by our brother's blood? Now I admit, engaging Putin directly would be highly dangerous and is not warranted at this time. But to say we should do nothing? I can't abide by that.

[RabbiKnife]

I’ll still waiting to hear what the loss of the hotbed of cybercriminality, human trafficking, bio weapons labs, and international banking fraud and money laundering means to the US and Europe.

Ukraine has been quietly destroying the two native Russian areas of Ukraine for years… Ukraine is just a larger version of the Balkans.

Putin is no hero for sure.  He is an opportunistic megalomaniac but I’m still having trouble seeing how this entire tempest in a teapot has any impact in the US other than covering for the catastrophe that is the Biden administration

Of course we as a country as backing the Ukraine… the source of the Biden family wealth.

[RandyPNW]

We see all these heart-breaking pictures of people leaving in droves, losing their home and possessions, and their men. And yet biblically, we know that divine judgment comes to corrupt nations.

What a horrible thing to say. God enjoins us to relieve human suffering, not point a finger and say "you deserved this".

It seems you don't believe your own Bible?

Isa 13.I will punish the world for its evil,
    the wicked for their sins.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
    and will humble the pride of the ruthless.

[RandyPNW]

Russia is being played, by Putin, difficult as it is to witness. And unless things happen from within, there seems to be very little to staunch the hemorrhage. The fall of Russia, nukes notwithstanding.

So would you agree with Lindsay Graham and Sean Hannity that generals around Putin should try to "take him out?" Not an American assassination, but one encouraged by American individuals outside of official govt policy?

I would agree that is the epitome of pride, arrogance, and God complex to suggest that people should be murdered.  Putin is none of our business as a nation until he begins harming our people and our national interests.  Calls for assassination are nothing short of criminal.

So you would call biblical assassinations all "criminal?"

Judges 3.20 Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his palace and said, “I have a message from God for you.” As the king rose from his seat, 21 Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king’s belly.