Please pray and help me with this

[Abigail]

I was raised in the faith of Christ. Suffice to say long years of living and learning have brought me to a place where I'm of more questions than answers. I guess what I'm asking is, would you please share with me why I should hold faith?

What I've learned over the years.
The OT of the Bible is a composite of Sumerian history , like the book of Genesis for instance. It is derived from the creation myth of the ancient Sumerians that predate the Jews. The Sumerian myth of creation is the Enuma Elish.
However, the Nephilim are also in that ancient text.

The Jews were formerly polytheists due to their Babylonian captivity. Then they turned to Monotheism. The God of the Jewish faith then became El, derived from the aforementioned Sumerian God's lists, aka , Kings list.

Further, sin and our being born to be sinners.
The ultimate question I guess that arrives for any Christian is, why didn't God forgive Adam and Eve in the beginning? When they were innocents misled by the serpent that obviously knew the terms and conditions as they applied to the forbidden fruit tree in order to tempt Eve to eat.
Being the serpent was wiser, and said to be Satan whom God let live after casting him, when he was known as Lucifer, from Heaven after Lucifer led a war against God there, and thus was the first sinner committing that sin against God and his authority.
Why let him live and cast him to earth and make him lord here? Where he would not only be able to gain entry into Eden that God judged good after creating it, with the forbidden tree included. Why condemn all humankind for one innocent mistake in 'disobeying' God and eating of the forbidden fruit? When neither Eve , who ate first, and then Adam , by whom sin then entered the world, had no knowledge of good or evil prior to eating and as such could not understand the consequences of good/obedience or evil/disobedience, as relates to God's order to not eat of that forbidden fruit?

Why did God write the names of those whom he'd save from their sins in his "Lambs Book of Life" before he created the earth. Which indicates he knew there would be sin to need saving from before he created the earth,Eden, or the forbidden tree.

Lastly, at least for now, what if it is true that God in the OT, per Marcion, is not the God that was Jesus, Emmanuel (God with us) ? And Jesus was coming to give us a road to Salvation that as we read in the OT was not available in those texts?

Basically, I'm conflicted and worried. What if it's all man made? Because of the aforementioned Sumerian histories that by thousands of years predate the Bible that contains textual references from those Sumerian tablets?

I do believe in God, that's for sure. I'm just wondering if anyone can help me to come to terms with believing in God the way Christianity prescribes.

This is not an insult to the faith or this forum by the way. I am genuinely conflicted and have been for some time. I just thought I might ask this question of a forum that may deem to help me find peace.

Thank you if you read this far.

God Bless,
A.

[IMINXTC]

What I've learned over the years.
The OT of the Bible is a composite of Sumerian history , like the book of Genesis for instance. It is derived from the creation myth of the ancient Sumerians that predate the Jews. The Sumerian myth of creation is the Enuma Elish.
However, the Nephilim are also in that ancient text.

Likely a reasonable place to start. While there are bits of similarities between the Sumerian myths and the OT, as there are similarly bits and pieces in most creation myths, Genesis is accounted to Moses, as are the first 5 books of the Bible, and is not a compilation of these ancient writings.

Many are jumping to false conclusions and teaching these things as verifications that the Bible is not actually inspired and true, but there is nothing conclusive or contextual about their renderings.

Genesis is a point by point account of creation and the history of mankind and God's plan of salvation written in very clear terms and followed up by ensuing historical accounts.

There are ancient accounts of the Flood, per example, in every major myth known to archeologists, yet in Genesis we are given clear detail and are able to follow the hand of God as history unfolds.

Ancient myths do not and cannot impeach the Biblical narrative, but often do confirm the accounts of Genesis as historical events, albeit from different perspectives and religious motives.

[Athanasius]

I was raised in the faith of Christ. Suffice to say long years of living and learning have brought me to a place where I'm of more questions than answers. I guess what I'm asking is, would you please share with me why I should hold faith?

What I've learned over the years.
The OT of the Bible is a composite of Sumerian history , like the book of Genesis for instance. It is derived from the creation myth of the ancient Sumerians that predate the Jews. The Sumerian myth of creation is the Enuma Elish.
However, the Nephilim are also in that ancient text.

The Jews were formerly polytheists due to their Babylonian captivity. Then they turned to Monotheism. The God of the Jewish faith then became El, derived from the aforementioned Sumerian God's lists, aka , Kings list.

Further, sin and our being born to be sinners.
The ultimate question I guess that arrives for any Christian is, why didn't God forgive Adam and Eve in the beginning? When they were innocents misled by the serpent that obviously knew the terms and conditions as they applied to the forbidden fruit tree in order to tempt Eve to eat.
Being the serpent was wiser, and said to be Satan whom God let live after casting him, when he was known as Lucifer, from Heaven after Lucifer led a war against God there, and thus was the first sinner committing that sin against God and his authority.
Why let him live and cast him to earth and make him lord here? Where he would not only be able to gain entry into Eden that God judged good after creating it, with the forbidden tree included. Why condemn all humankind for one innocent mistake in 'disobeying' God and eating of the forbidden fruit? When neither Eve , who ate first, and then Adam , by whom sin then entered the world, had no knowledge of good or evil prior to eating and as such could not understand the consequences of good/obedience or evil/disobedience, as relates to God's order to not eat of that forbidden fruit?

Why did God write the names of those whom he'd save from their sins in his "Lambs Book of Life" before he created the earth. Which indicates he knew there would be sin to need saving from before he created the earth,Eden, or the forbidden tree.

Lastly, at least for now, what if it is true that God in the OT, per Marcion, is not the God that was Jesus, Emmanuel (God with us) ? And Jesus was coming to give us a road to Salvation that as we read in the OT was not available in those texts?

Basically, I'm conflicted and worried. What if it's all man made? Because of the aforementioned Sumerian histories that by thousands of years predate the Bible that contains textual references from those Sumerian tablets?

I do believe in God, that's for sure. I'm just wondering if anyone can help me to come to terms with believing in God the way Christianity prescribes.

This is not an insult to the faith or this forum by the way. I am genuinely conflicted and have been for some time. I just thought I might ask this question of a forum that may deem to help me find peace.

Thank you if you read this far.

God Bless,
A.

Mhmm.

Why don't you start with one of these questions, explain more what your thoughts are on that question, and then we'll all examine it in-depth, and go onto the next question in turn, and so on. Since another poster already replied, let's start from the start. What are your broader thoughts on the textual composition of the Bible?

Let's all everyone who replies stick to this one item for now. There's no need to introduce any of the other ~20 items early, they'll get their turn.

[Abigail]

@Athanasius, good point.

OK, lets start at the beginning. The first five books are credited to Moshe, or Moses, as author. https://biblehub.com/timeline/genesis/1.htm Before 4000B.C. - Genesis.

 However, the Sumerian Enūma Eliš, also called The Seven Tablets of Creation ,  [PDF: Comparison Genesis to Enuma Elish:http://rspaulgroup.com/Home/Bible_20_20_OT_files/Lesson%201_11.pdf ] ,   were found in the ruins Library of Ashurbanipal at Nineveh. It is considered to be the oldest extant creation epic dated to approximately the 2nd millennium B.C. .
" Also Known As: The Chaldean Account of Genesis (name was given by George Smith to his translation of the Enuma Elish, in 1876), The Babylonian Genesis, The Poem of Creation, and The Epic of Creation

Alternate Spellings: Enūma eliš "  Source:https://www.learnreligions.com/enuma-elish-the-oldest-written-creation-myth-117858

Staying with the Book of Genesis,  Genesis 6 and Noah's ark:  this is preceded by the epic of Gilgamesh.    It was recorded in the Akadian language and too was found in the ruins of the library at Ashurbanipal. These particular tablets are said to date to 750 B.C.

Thank you for your help.

[Athanasius]

@Athanasius, good point.

OK, lets start at the beginning. The first five books are credited to Moshe, or Moses, as author. https://biblehub.com/timeline/genesis/1.htm Before 4000B.C. - Genesis.

 However, the Sumerian Enūma Eliš, also called The Seven Tablets of Creation ,  [PDF: Comparison Genesis to Enuma Elish:http://rspaulgroup.com/Home/Bible_20_20_OT_files/Lesson%201_11.pdf ] ,   were found in the ruins Library of Ashurbanipal at Nineveh. It is considered to be the oldest extant creation epic dated to approximately the 2nd millennium B.C. .
" Also Known As: The Chaldean Account of Genesis (name was given by George Smith to his translation of the Enuma Elish, in 1876), The Babylonian Genesis, The Poem of Creation, and The Epic of Creation

Alternate Spellings: Enūma eliš "  Source:https://www.learnreligions.com/enuma-elish-the-oldest-written-creation-myth-117858

Staying with the Book of Genesis,  Genesis 6 and Noah's ark:  this is preceded by the epic of Gilgamesh.    It was recorded in the Akadian language and too was found in the ruins of the library at Ashurbanipal. These particular tablets are said to date to 750 B.C.

Thank you for your help.

A regular Daniel Jackson. Or was that Ehrman? Nah, totally Spader, or maybe Shanks.

I didn't ask for a history lesson, I asked for your thoughts on why you found this to be a difficulty. So, what about the textual development of the bible do you find difficult to your personal faith, as you mentioned? You said you were genuinely conflicted so like, genuinely, where does the conflict lie?

[Abigail]

@Athanasius, good point.

OK, lets start at the beginning. The first five books are credited to Moshe, or Moses, as author. https://biblehub.com/timeline/genesis/1.htm Before 4000B.C. - Genesis.

 However, the Sumerian Enūma Eliš, also called The Seven Tablets of Creation ,  [PDF: Comparison Genesis to Enuma Elish:http://rspaulgroup.com/Home/Bible_20_20_OT_files/Lesson%201_11.pdf ] ,   were found in the ruins Library of Ashurbanipal at Nineveh. It is considered to be the oldest extant creation epic dated to approximately the 2nd millennium B.C. .
" Also Known As: The Chaldean Account of Genesis (name was given by George Smith to his translation of the Enuma Elish, in 1876), The Babylonian Genesis, The Poem of Creation, and The Epic of Creation

Alternate Spellings: Enūma eliš "  Source:https://www.learnreligions.com/enuma-elish-the-oldest-written-creation-myth-117858

Staying with the Book of Genesis,  Genesis 6 and Noah's ark:  this is preceded by the epic of Gilgamesh.    It was recorded in the Akadian language and too was found in the ruins of the library at Ashurbanipal. These particular tablets are said to date to 750 B.C.

Thank you for your help.

A regular Daniel Jackson. Or was that Ehrman? Nah, totally Spader, or maybe Shanks.

I didn't ask for a history lesson, I asked for your thoughts on why you found this to be a difficulty. So, what about the textual development of the bible do you find difficult to your personal faith, as you mentioned? You said you were genuinely conflicted so like, genuinely, where does the conflict lie?

How do you understand my issue with the conflict if you think what you call a history lesson isn't anything that will help you with it?

I'll rephrase. All that I posted in the post you criticized as a history lesson you've no interest in predates the Bible's book of Genesis.
Ergo, when we Christian's accept the Bible, including Genesis and the first five books, were written by Moses under inspiration of God, I believe the textual history of books predating Genesis, yet that contain events similar to what is copied in Genesis are relevant.

Because if God inspired the Bible why does its content appear in historic texts and a different culture well  before the date of its first book, Genesis?

[Athanasius]

@Athanasius, good point.

OK, lets start at the beginning. The first five books are credited to Moshe, or Moses, as author. https://biblehub.com/timeline/genesis/1.htm Before 4000B.C. - Genesis.

 However, the Sumerian Enūma Eliš, also called The Seven Tablets of Creation ,  [PDF: Comparison Genesis to Enuma Elish:http://rspaulgroup.com/Home/Bible_20_20_OT_files/Lesson%201_11.pdf ] ,   were found in the ruins Library of Ashurbanipal at Nineveh. It is considered to be the oldest extant creation epic dated to approximately the 2nd millennium B.C. .
" Also Known As: The Chaldean Account of Genesis (name was given by George Smith to his translation of the Enuma Elish, in 1876), The Babylonian Genesis, The Poem of Creation, and The Epic of Creation

Alternate Spellings: Enūma eliš "  Source:https://www.learnreligions.com/enuma-elish-the-oldest-written-creation-myth-117858

Staying with the Book of Genesis,  Genesis 6 and Noah's ark:  this is preceded by the epic of Gilgamesh.    It was recorded in the Akadian language and too was found in the ruins of the library at Ashurbanipal. These particular tablets are said to date to 750 B.C.

Thank you for your help.

A regular Daniel Jackson. Or was that Ehrman? Nah, totally Spader, or maybe Shanks.

I didn't ask for a history lesson, I asked for your thoughts on why you found this to be a difficulty. So, what about the textual development of the bible do you find difficult to your personal faith, as you mentioned? You said you were genuinely conflicted so like, genuinely, where does the conflict lie?

How do you understand my issue with the conflict if you think what you call a history lesson isn't anything that will help you with it?

I'll rephrase. All that I posted in the post you criticized as a history lesson you've no interest in predates the Bible's book of Genesis.
Ergo, when we Christian's accept the Bible, including Genesis and the first five books, were written by Moses under inspiration of God, I believe the textual history of books predating Genesis, yet that contain events similar to what is copied in Genesis are relevant.

Because if God inspired the Bible why does its content appear in historic texts and a different culture well  before the date of its first book, Genesis?

I'm trying to determine if you're genuine, or if you're here to try to play Ehrman. Asking for your thoughts on the matter, only to be met with an attempted education, does not incline me towards the former. But thanks for the alternate spellings and such.

Assuming you're genuine, you're suggesting that inspiration ought to involve revelation that is wholly original; but, if history is as literally described in the bible (is it?), then it will be the case that such stories would have been passed down from generation to generation until such time that Moses (apparently, if we lean in that direction) wrote. History being what it is.

And of course, those supposed Mosaic texts aren't verbatim reproductions of other ANE texts, so, there is some 'originality' to be had, to put it lightly. That 'some' is slightly facetious. Poetic structure in mind, there are decent differences between the two.

So, are you asking because you're asking, or because you're going to try to teach us all about how certain ANE texts predate the authorship of Genesis by some ~300 years? (Did Marduk ever get along with Darmok? We may never know.) Hence, pilling on the questions.

[Abigail]

Alternate spelling and such?

I asked for assistance with my concerns. And prayers.  I appreciate you don't understand, again.

God Bless.

[RabbiKnife]

As Athanasius said, all history was at one time oral.  Finding various versions of oral history memorialized eventually into writing does not make the earliest written version “true” or the “source” of later written texts

If all of the text have some similarities, it is logical to assume some common actual historical antecedent regardless of the manner of storytelling depicted

Consider Tolkien’s use of the fall of Melchior in the Silmarillion as a subsequent allusion to Ezekiel and the fall of Lucifer, as a poor analogy

[Athanasius]

Alternate spelling and such?

I asked for assistance with my concerns. And prayers.  I appreciate you don't understand, again.

God Bless.

Your copy/paste:

"The first five books are credited to Moshe, or Moses"
"Alternate Spellings: Enūma eliš"

As RK points out, I replied to this question:

"Basically, I'm conflicted and worried. What if it's all man made? Because of the aforementioned Sumerian histories that by thousands of years predate the Bible that contains textual references from those Sumerian tablets?"

So, what are your thoughts?

[Abigail]

As Athanasius said, all history was at one time oral.  Finding various versions of oral history memorialized eventually into writing does not make the earliest written version “true” or the “source” of later written texts

If all of the text have some similarities, it is logical to assume some common actual historical antecedent regardless of the manner of storytelling depicted

Consider Tolkien’s use of the fall of Melchior in the Silmarillion as a subsequent allusion to Ezekiel and the fall of Lucifer, as a poor analogy

Tolkien is irrelevant to this discussion. Just as would be the 7 deadly sins being depicted in the classic TV series, Gilligan's Island.

I think the matter of precedent is an issue here. The Cuneiform text of ancient Sumerian culture precedes any other historical writing. If from that source of origin the subsequent texts contained in Genesis appear similar I think it then becomes an issue as regards the divine inspiration Moshe, which is actually a verb,  the Hebrew name for Moses, received.

If copied from Sumerian texts was God then the inspiration for the Sumerian culture prior to the Hebrews? Especially when there were no Jews yet extant when Genesis came to be.

[Fenris]

I think it's important to say that faith is a very key factor. If one believes that the bible is the inerrant word of God, then there are no question. If one doesn't believe that, then there are no answers.

You raise a specific issue but there are a large number of such issues that one could potentially raise. Dinosaur bones for example. Or the size of the universe. Or anything really.

Now, onto the specific issue that you're raising here about Sumerian texts. If the world was really created some 5700 someodd years ago, and as the bible states, were dispersed across the globe after the incident with the Tower of Babel, would it be logical that they would retain some knowledge of the truth, however muddled?  Maybe the Sumerian text come from the bible and not the other way around? I mean it's certainly one way to look at it.

[RabbiKnife]

As Athanasius said, all history was at one time oral.  Finding various versions of oral history memorialized eventually into writing does not make the earliest written version “true” or the “source” of later written texts

If all of the text have some similarities, it is logical to assume some common actual historical antecedent regardless of the manner of storytelling depicted

Consider Tolkien’s use of the fall of Melchior in the Silmarillion as a subsequent allusion to Ezekiel and the fall of Lucifer, as a poor analogy

Tolkien is irrelevant to this discussion. Just as would be the 7 deadly sins being depicted in the classic TV series, Gilligan's Island.

I think the matter of precedent is an issue here. The Cuneiform text of ancient Sumerian culture precedes any other historical writing. If from that source of origin the subsequent texts contained in Genesis appear similar I think it then becomes an issue as regards the divine inspiration Moshe, which is actually a verb,  the Hebrew name for Moses, received.

If copied from Sumerian texts was God then the inspiration for the Sumerian culture prior to the Hebrews? Especially when there were no Jews yet extant when Genesis came to be.

You are still falling for the errant leap of logic that presupposes that “earlier, therefore original source” when both sources claim oral history as source, and further, that the Bible claims divine origin and inspiration and the other early texts do not

Tolkien is, now that I think about it, a perfect example

You believe that Moses is Tolkien when the reality both rely upon earlier oral history

[Abigail]

I think it's important to say that faith is a very key factor. If one believes that the bible is the inerrant word of God, then there are no question. If one doesn't believe that, then there are no answers.

You raise a specific issue but there are a large number of such issues that one could potentially raise. Dinosaur bones for example. Or the size of the universe. Or anything really.

Now, onto the specific issue that you're raising here about Sumerian texts. If the world was really created some 5700 someodd years ago, and as the bible states, were dispersed across the globe after the incident with the Tower of Babel, would it be logical that they would retain some knowledge of the truth, however muddled?  Maybe the Sumerian text come from the bible and not the other way around? I mean it's certainly one way to look at it.

I would submit that there is no thing in the Bible that indicates the world was created 5700 some odd years ago.
As pertains to your reference to the tower of Babel, that too is in ancient Sumerian texts. As noted in the OP and my follow-up reply to another member, the Sumerian Cuneiform texts are dated before Genesis.
And we know of course the history of the Bible itself so to know it is not inerrant. Man is errant. God is perfect. While God inspired the Bible as we take on faith, we know man played our part in its creation. Think of how many "versions" of God's word there are extant in the world today.

How many denominations, branches of faith, sprang from holding faith in the eternal word of our perfect Father. How many of those are named after men who deemed themselves worthy of being the father of those ideologies/denominations.
 
Faith is important yes. However, I think if we ignore fact in order to cleave to faith we do no service to ourselves or to God who gave us the intellect to seek and find answers he inspired in us as questions first.

Proverbs 20:5   
A plan in the heart of a man is like deep water,
But a man of understanding draws it out.

[Abigail]

As Athanasius said, all history was at one time oral.  Finding various versions of oral history memorialized eventually into writing does not make the earliest written version “true” or the “source” of later written texts

If all of the text have some similarities, it is logical to assume some common actual historical antecedent regardless of the manner of storytelling depicted

Consider Tolkien’s use of the fall of Melchior in the Silmarillion as a subsequent allusion to Ezekiel and the fall of Lucifer, as a poor analogy

Tolkien is irrelevant to this discussion. Just as would be the 7 deadly sins being depicted in the classic TV series, Gilligan's Island.

I think the matter of precedent is an issue here. The Cuneiform text of ancient Sumerian culture precedes any other historical writing. If from that source of origin the subsequent texts contained in Genesis appear similar I think it then becomes an issue as regards the divine inspiration Moshe, which is actually a verb,  the Hebrew name for Moses, received.

If copied from Sumerian texts was God then the inspiration for the Sumerian culture prior to the Hebrews? Especially when there were no Jews yet extant when Genesis came to be.

You are still falling for the errant leap of logic that presupposes that “earlier, therefore original source” when both sources claim oral history as source, and further, that the Bible claims divine origin and inspiration and the other early texts do not.

I think the historic record itself suffices as pertains to material historic texts. Cuneiform tablets exist and are dated. Genesis scrolls exist in pieces, as do the tablets of Sumer in many respects, and are dated.
Man proclaims divine inspiration. While the physical material record stands forever. Or as long as the materials written upon last.

Tolkien is, now that I think about it, a perfect example

As I know you believed when you introduced him into this. I respectfully disagree.

You believe that Moses is Tolkien

I have never stated that.