Chronology

[journeyman]

​The first chapter of Genesis is a narrative framework for the entire collection of inspired works, the entirety of the Bible itself. The creation days are a framework to understand not only the terminology used throughout the prophetic works it is also designed to tell us exactly when God's kingdom is to come.

I read one Rabbis belief that Gen.1 contains all of God's works from throughout history, from the beginning of creation to the end. That belief has merit.

In the progression of chronology presented in Genesis, God rested on the seventh day, and that was after the creation of Eve, not Adam.

This is a good example of how Gen.1 contains all of Gods works. Eve is symbolic of the church (Eph.5:32).

When the last member of Christ's body is formed, that will be the end of it.

[Athanasius]

I read one Rabbis belief that Gen.1 contains all of God's works from throughout history, from the beginning of creation to the end. That belief has merit.

There's a difference between the view that Genesis 1 contains all of God's works, and the view that the days of Genesis 1 are prophecies corresponding to 1,000 year periods over the last ~6,000 years (the misunderstanding of 2 Peter notwithstanding).

Neither view has merit in my estimation, but if you find either compelling would you mind sharing more?

In the progression of chronology presented in Genesis, God rested on the seventh day, and that was after the creation of Eve, not Adam.

This is a good example of how Gen.1 contains all of Gods works. Eve is symbolic of the church (Eph.5:32).

What you've quoted, and what Joshua goes on to assert, is not an example of anything other than a bald assertion.

The 'mystery' of Ephesians 5:32 comes through Paul's use of marriage imagery to describe the relationship between Christ and the church. What Paul isn't doing is using Eve symbolically. Christ/husband and Church/wife is the metaphor.

When the last member of Christ's body is formed, that will be the end of it.

And when the human instrumentality project is complete, the Lilin will finally take their place among the gods.

Sorry, I thought were saying just saying cool things.

[RandyPNW]

​The first chapter of Genesis is a narrative framework for the entire collection of inspired works, the entirety of the Bible itself. The creation days are a framework to understand not only the terminology used throughout the prophetic works it is also designed to tell us exactly when God's kingdom is to come.

I read one Rabbis belief that Gen.1 contains all of God's works from throughout history, from the beginning of creation to the end. That belief has merit.

In the progression of chronology presented in Genesis, God rested on the seventh day, and that was after the creation of Eve, not Adam.

This is a good example of how Gen.1 contains all of Gods works. Eve is symbolic of the church (Eph.5:32).

When the last member of Christ's body is formed, that will be the end of it.

The Rabbis sometimes were Kabbalists, and tried to read a significant divine message under every leaf. I've been guilty of this at time, but it really amounts to worshiping the Bible as a document chalk full of divine secrets meant for an elite who searches out the mysteries of God.

There's truth in everything, but I like what Walter Martin used to say--God doesn't speak with a lisp--when He wants to say something He comes out and says it!

I do believe that God had a general end in mind from the beginning, and His word cannot be thwarted. So all that God intended He will get.

But there's this funny thing called human "free will," that tends to delay things. Perhaps that's why it took two Adams to complete the task, two generations to get Israel through the wilderness, and two sons of Abraham to establish Israel on faith?

Maybe you can find elements in the Creation Story that signify a basic blueprint of God's intensions? But then again, it's said quite plainly what God was after, a multitude of humans expressing God's image throughout the world!

Well, it's taken about 6000 years to get there, with all of the wars and pandemics setting mankind back. Perhaps this does equate to a roughly 6 year plan in Creation?

I don't know. There is the Millennial Day theory, and that seems to have worked out quite nicely, particularly since it's been around since the Early Church?

But we can, I think, go overboard with symbolism, and begin to predict things that makes us God, in place of the Creator. And He doesn't want us to try to anticipate "times and seasons" that He alone controls.

Our job more is to focus on being godly in our own time, affecting people around us for their own good. It's interesting, but we should probably exercise some restraint in our novel interpretations?

[RabbiKnife]

Sin and the fall were not a surprise to God nor did they require a change in God’s plan

[Athanasius]

Foreknown, all things were.

[RandyPNW]

Sin and the fall were not a surprise to God nor did they require a change in God’s plan

Well for starters, there was a change called the Cross? And of course, God had to learn patience with us. And there were setbacks, delays, and opposition from the Devil and his cronies. How can this not be construed as "change?"

Some people just blithely state that "God knows everything." Well, I would amend that to say, "God isn't surprised by anything." He always has a backup plan.

If you do happen to believe, as many do, that God actually planned for Man to fall, I can respect that. But I can't believe that, since God, to be consistent, wouldn't want anybody to fail. But my view is that He was prepared for any eventuality, including the fall.

[RandyPNW]

Foreknown, all things were.

Yes, but we have to breakdown what that means. If God created a perfect world, He also created the alternate world of the Fall. What it means is that His Word is prepared to deal with any eventuality.

Unlike many, I don't have a problem with an open-ended universe. I think God is big enough to enter into the equation our free will. Does this mean that God doesn't know what I'm going to choose to do today? Yes, it means that. But it also means that I can do nothing outside of the parameters He's already created for my choices. He's surprised by nothing.

[RabbiKnife]

I cannot accept an open theism in which God ever learns something new

There are much richer paradigms that deal with foreknowledge and sovereignty that extol God’s omniscience instead of limiting it

No. The cross was not a change

Jesus was the lamb slain from before the foundation of the world

[RandyPNW]

I cannot accept an open theism in which God ever learns something new

There are much richer paradigms that deal with foreknowledge and sovereignty that extol God’s omniscience instead of limiting it

No. The cross was not a change

Jesus was the lamb slain from before the foundation of the world

Either way, you're limiting God. You're either saying He cannot abide by freedom of human will and free human choices, or you are saying that I'm limiting God by saying He cannot know what our choices will be.

I get around that by saying God knows the extent of our choices, and cannot always know what specific choice we will make. What will it be--God is incapable of letting us make our own choices?

Jesus is indeed slain from the foundation of the world, but not from *before* the foundation of the world. He existed before the foundation of the world as the Word of God. I believe God predestined Him to be revealed as king over the human race.

But he was not planned, from before the foundation of the world, to be slain. God didn't want man to sin. If so, then it was possible that man not sin. Just my view, brother.

[RandyPNW]

Every one of us is affected by inherited sin nature, though we may not hang it out there for all to see. Our brains have been affected, our bodies have been affected, and our spirits have been affected. Every one of us gravitates towards sin, and must overcome it. We're all flawed, though in different ways and to different degrees. But we have a very bright future.

[journeyman]

would you mind sharing more?

Not at all, but would you please comment on post 38 first? Thanks.

[IMINXTC]

"O lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off." Ps 139:1,2

[journeyman]

The Rabbis sometimes were Kabbalists, and tried to read a significant divine message under every leaf. I've been guilty of this at time, but it really amounts to worshiping the Bible as a document chalk full of divine secrets meant for an elite who searches out the mysteries of God.

I don't remember the Rabbis name, but there is a significant Devine message on every page of the Bible, because there's something on every page that Jesus our Lord taught about or describes him.

There's truth in everything, but I like what Walter Martin used to say--God doesn't speak with a lisp--when He wants to say something He comes out and says it!

I don't know who Walter Martin is, but I agree with him. Is it strange to you how God doesn't speak with a lisp, but mankind murdered the Messiah? Why on earth would anyone want to kill the Son of God.....without advanced notice about it?

I do believe that God had a general end in mind from the beginning, and His word cannot be thwarted. So all that God intended He will get.

I believe God had a specific end in mind from the beginning.

But there's this funny thing called human "free will," that tends to delay things.

Human free will isn't delaying anything. The end hasn't come yet because of Christ's will only. If it wasn't for the grace of God, no flesh would be saved.

Perhaps that's why it took two Adams to complete the task,

It took two Adams so that mankind would know that Jesus is God,

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 1 Cor.15:47

two generations to get Israel through the wilderness,

The two generations being the saved and the unsaved.

and two sons of Abraham to establish Israel on faith?

If you mean Ishmael vs. Isaac and Esau vs. Jacob, I agree.

Maybe you can find elements in the Creation Story that signify a basic blueprint of God's intensions? But then again, it's said quite plainly what God was after, a multitude of humans expressing God's image throughout the world!

Yes, we can see a basic blueprint of God's intentions, but it's because we grow in him that it's said quite plainly. There were and still are many people walking about who didn't hear about how great our Savior is.

Well, it's taken about 6000 years to get there, with all of the wars and pandemics setting mankind back. Perhaps this does equate to a roughly 6 year plan in Creation?

I'm not concerned with the age of the earth in this discussion, but one day is like another to God, except for his Sabbath day of rest.

I don't know. There is the Millennial Day theory, and that seems to have worked out quite nicely, particularly since it's been around since the Early Church?

I believe Jesus showed how he reigns over all and speaking in the name of the King carries with it the serious responsibility of speaking with the King's authority. I must say many times I've failed there. I'm not much of a cartoon guy anymore.

But we can, I think, go overboard with symbolism, and begin to predict things that makes us God, in place of the Creator. And He doesn't want us to try to anticipate "times and seasons that He alone controls.

The only thing we're to predict is that Jesus will return.

Our job more is to focus on being godly in our own time, affecting people around us for their own good.

I agree.

It's interesting, but we should probably exercise some restraint in our novel interpretations?

We absolutely should, as "boldly giing before God's throne" happens on our faces.

[Athanasius]

Not at all, but would you please comment on post 38 first? Thanks.

I haven't replied to post #38 as I don't have anything further to say on those points.

[journeyman]

I haven't replied to post #38 as I don't have anything further to say on those points.

Ok. I'll get back to you on your post Lord willing.