the ruler to come in Dan 7

[ross3421]

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Cor.5:17

No more sea because we're one in Christ regardless of race and for the rest, we have no right to judge another mans servant.

well if things are paased away will need to be replaced and perhaps by a transformed thing.


sea above is a reference t hell.  in eterninty there is no more hell

[journeyman]

[well if things are paased away will need to be replaced and perhaps by a transformed thing.

Paul was speaking in the present tense.

sea above is a reference t hell.  in eterninty there is no more hell

I believe the sea refers to the "sea of humanity",

And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. Rev.17:15

She's sitting on the beast, who rises from the sea (of humanity),

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea Rev.13:1

But I do agree with you that there will be no more hell. I believe when compared to all scripture concerning the final fire that causes torment, hell fire is the result of the presence of Christ upon the unrepentant,

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev.19:20

and then shall be revealed the Lawless One, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the manifestation of his presence, 2Thes.2:8

[ross3421]

I believe the sea refers to the "sea of humanity",

And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. Rev.17:15

She's sitting on the beast, who rises from the sea (of humanity),

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea Rev.13:1

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea,

so humanity is more than the sea

so what humanity is in the sea, the dead.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;

now as for your reference to rev 13, where is john standing, on the seashore so what he sees comes forth from a body of water which hell is below, the beast comes from hell.

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,


so sea equals the bottomless pit not humanity and the waters which you saw with the whore are rivers une being the great euphrates which gives us a clue to the location of babylon

[journeyman]

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea,

so humanity is more than the sea

so what humanity is in the sea, the dead.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;

I was referring to humanity as, "man" kind, not other "kinds" if life. And We were part of the sea, but were saved out of it, because we heed Our Lord's words, just as Noah heard God and built the ark.

now as for your reference to rev 13, where is john standing, on the seashore so what he sees comes forth from a body of water which hell is below, the beast comes from hell.

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,

so sea equals the bottomless pit not humanity and the waters which you saw with the whore are rivers une being the great euphrates which gives us a clue to the location of babylon

The bottomless pit is  ahole that can't be filled, such as the greed, etc. of humanity (mankind). Of course fallen angels inhabit that dead place, but as King David said,

He brought me up also out of an horrible pit Psa.40:2

This prophetic psalm isn't speaking of a never ending hole somewhere, but an experience. In this case, it's Christ saying the Father saved him out of the pit some religious leaders tried to put him in. As far as the rest of us, Asaph says,

But as for me, my feet were almost gone; my steps had well nigh slipped. Psa.73:2

And which one of us hasn't felt jealousy for whatever earthly reason.

I don't know what your view of the bottomless pit is, but jealousy is a bottomless pit. So is lust, envy and so on.

[ross3421]

The bottomless pit is a hole that can't be filled, such as the greed, etc. of humanity (mankind).

This prophetic psalm isn't speaking of a never ending hole somewhere, but an experience.

I don't know what your view of the bottomless pit is, but jealousy is a bottomless pit. So is lust, envy and so on.

i see the bp as a literal hole in the ground, bottomless being a metaphor for a very long pit.  i would assume it reaches to the center of the earth being its hootest point.

But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

[journeyman]

i see the bp as a literal hole in the ground, bottomless being a metaphor for a very long pit.  i would assume it reaches to the center of the earth being its hootest point.

But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

I'm convinced it's a state people enter,
That passage refers to a dead body. Our Lord spoke of the dead in a way this world doesn't see,

But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell. Pro.9:18

It's a "place" in the sense of a "state" sinners are in.

[ross3421]

I'm convinced it's a state people enter,
That passage refers to a dead body. Our Lord spoke of the dead in a way this world doesn't see,

But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell. Pro.9:18

It's a "place" in the sense of a "state" sinners are in.

so you do not see hell as a literal place, is heaven then not a place but a state?

how does a nonliteral place have walls sides and stones?

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

[journeyman]

so you do not see hell as a literal place, is heaven then not a place but a state?

It's a place we're in, in Christ. I believe the creation everyone can see is like a mirror of the heavenly. The world we now inhabit is like the rebellion long ago of fallen spirits against God. His Kingdom is all around us, but we can only enter it by faith in Jesus.

how does a nonliteral place have walls sides and stones?

The same way you can be "in a box", without being in a box.

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

And Satan wants people to believe they're free in him, but the opposite is true. They're in bondage, in prison, enslaved, without metal bars.

[Truth7t7]

A different view of Dan 9.
I'm seeing the 70 Weeks of Dan 9 a little differently than I have been. And I think it may make reading it a little more cohesive and readable, which should be what an account is all about.

Dan 9.24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

In vss. 26-27 there is a central character, the "ruler who will come," which I believe refers to the Roman leader--not a specific leader, but basically a position. He will do several things, it appears.
1) He will have his people destroy Jerusalem and the temple.
2) He will confirm a covenant with many for a Week, presumably of years.
3) He will put an end to sacrifice and offering in the middle of the Week.
4) He will set up an abomination that causes desolation.

What's different in my position now is that I used to think Christ was the one who confirms a covenant with many for a Week, and put an end to sacrifice and offering in the middle of the Week. But that seems to confuse the cohesiveness of the discourse, and muddy who is doing what. If we see all of the elements being orchestrated by a single entity, the Roman leadership, then it makes cohesive sense, and the prophecy seems to flow more evenly.

So how did the Roman leader(s) make this happen? He brought about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple from 70-135 AD. Leading up to this, Rome initially allowed the Jews to continue under their temple covenant during the ministry of Christ, which lasted 3.5 years. This was the 70th Week of the 70 Weeks Prophecy.

Then a Roman leader, Pontius Pilate, put Christ to death in the middle of this 70th Week, since Jesus died apparently after only 3.5 years of ministry--half of a Week. This put an end to divine acceptance of sacrifices and offerings made at the temple. The veil was rent at Jesus' death.

Finally, a Roman general set up an Army around Jerusalem and the temple, presenting an "abomination of desolation." It was a display of raw pagan power, set to destroy God's temple. There were actually 2 Roman generals involved in this, Cestius Gallus in 66 AD and Titus in 70 AD.

This seems to allow the passage to flow more smoothly in the vein of its context. The context, largely, has to do with the future of the temple and with the coming of Messiah.

Daniel is praying about the restoration of the temple, and God sends an angel to explain that over a 70 Weeks period the temple will be restored and remain as such until the coming of Messiah.

The rise of Rome, the 4th Kingdom Daniel mentioned earlier in chs. 2 and 7, will cooperate with this covenant in the time of Messiah, who comes in the 70th Week. During the time of Jesus, the Romans will all the Gospel of Messiah to be disseminated until he is judged and crucified.

The "end that is decreed" is either one of two options. Either this "end" is something decreed to end the temple by the "ruler who will come." Or, this end is something that will come to Rome itself, taking place in 476 AD. It depends on how the words apply.

Roman leadership did not immediately come to an end, but in 476 AD it did come to an end. The Roman imperial tradition continued in the East, and was later restored in the West. But the Western branch of the ancient Roman Empire did come to an end.

But the context seems rather to have to do with the cessation of Jewish worship, and perhaps the reference was to this, which happened at the destruction of the temple in 70 AD? After all, no immediate vengeance was poured out upon the Roman perpetrator of this judgment.

"And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

The word "him" here may also be translated at "it," apparently. As such, it may be rendered, more properly, as...

"And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on IT."

Randy you suggest that Daniel 9:27 has been fulfilled in history?

Scripture clearly teaches that the bad guy seen will be on earth causing abomination and desolation to the "Consummation" or ultimate end, "Future" unfulfilled

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple
mail
Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see (70 Literal Future Weeks) or 490 days.

When the (Future) call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off as Armies surrounding Jerusalem, who stop the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation now starts.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

[Oseas]

Randy you suggest that Daniel 9:27 has been fulfilled in history?

Scripture clearly teaches that the bad guy seen will be on earth causing abomination and desolation to the "Consummation" or ultimate end, "Future" unfulfilled

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), [/quote]  FAKE


Daniel would right what you are suggesting if he was inspired by the same spirit of yours.
   

Daniel 9:v.24 to 27 - CJB -   COMPLETE JEWISH BIBLE

24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and for your holy city for putting an end to the transgression, for making an end of sin, for forgiving iniquity, for bringing in everlasting justice, for setting the seal on vision and prophet, and for anointing the Especially Holy Place. 25 Know, therefore, and discern that seven weeks [of years] will elapse between the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Yerushalayim until an anointed prince comes. It will remain built for sixty-two weeks [of years], with open spaces and moats; but these will be troubled times. 26 Then, after the sixty-two weeks, Mashiach will be cut off and have nothing. The people of a prince yet to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary, but his end will come with a flood, and desolations are decreed until the war is over. 27 He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”

[Truth7t7]

The Complete Jewish Bible Is Fake

[Oseas]

The Complete Jewish Bible Is Fake

[/quote]

Not as much as the accuser.

[RabbiKnife]

The Complete Jewish Bible Is Fake

Wait?  What? 

[Athanasius]

Wait?  What?

Surely this is different from the studio release of the Jewish Bible, or even the Director's cut. It's too bad I overlooked this comment earlier.

[Oseas]

Wait?  What?

Surely this is different from the studio release of the Jewish Bible, or even the Director's cut. It's too bad I overlooked this comment earlier.

Daniel 9:v.27CJB - 27 He will make a strong COVENANT with leaders for one week [of years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”

The Word of GOD - the Word is GOD - is not referring to A COVENANT of a week of 24-hour day, it is meaningless, but a week of years, of course. The same happens with 7 weeks, and 62 weeks, as it is written, GOD refers actually to two periods of 1,260 days, the second period with a gap of 30 days, then another gap of 45 days.