the ruler to come in Dan 7

[RandyPNW]

heavenly jerusalem currettly in the heavens is not new jereusalem as all things are made new upon his return even this city.  ez 40-48 we see this transition.  so the holy city is the current heavenly jerusalem which comes down prior to nj

Well, that's interesting. I suppose I'll have to think about this for awhile. Jerusalem I tend to see as a metaphor for God's People presently registered by heaven as the heirs of the New Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem is not yet here because the saints need to put on new heavenly clothes before arriving *as that city.*

[journeyman]

James 2.11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

You should not fear eternal judgment if you have cast your lot with Jesus. Neither should you ignore Jesus if he tells you to run when you need to run.

I'm not ignoring our Lord instructing us to run. We need to run toward him, away from the ways of this world. Interpret the scriptures this way.

[RandyPNW]

James 2.11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

You should not fear eternal judgment if you have cast your lot with Jesus. Neither should you ignore Jesus if he tells you to run when you need to run.

I'm not ignoring our Lord instructing us to run. We need to run toward him, away from the ways of this world. Interpret the scriptures this way.

Of course I agree with that as a general concept. But the specific passage in the Olivet Discourse had to do, I believe, with the Jewish disciples of Jesus who Jesus wanted to avoid a judgment that was not meant for the obedient--the Jewish invasion of Jerusalem. Jesus counselled his disciples to "run" when Roman troops started gearing up to come to Israel as an invading, conquering force. They were already in charge, but they were coming to put down a Jewish revolt.

This was an old lesson that should've been learned when Babylon approached Jerusalem with the same thing in mind. Jeremiah counselled the Jews in Jerusalem to capitulate to and to surrender to the invading forces, since it had been predetermined by God as a judgment for Israel's idolatry. But the people largely ignored Jeremiah's warnings, and fled to Egypt.

This was the same thing in Jesus' day, with the Jews refusing to submit to Rome. And so, they brought on the worst judgment from God in Israel's history, since it was predetermined to last throughout the present age.

[journeyman]

heavenly jerusalem currettly in the heavens is not new jereusalem as all things are made new upon his return even this city.  ez 40-48 we see this transition.  so the holy city is the current heavenly jerusalem which comes down prior to nj

Heavenly Jerusalem and New Jerusalem are the same, because all things are made new "in Christ". Upon our Lord's return, what was previously made new in him is simply manifested for all to see.

[ross3421]

heavenly jerusalem currettly in the heavens is not new jereusalem as all things are made new upon his return even this city.  ez 40-48 we see this transition.  so the holy city is the current heavenly jerusalem which comes down prior to nj

Heavenly Jerusalem and New Jerusalem are the same, because all things are made new "in Christ". Upon our Lord's return, what was previously made new in him is simply manifested for all to see.

they are the same city but at a a diiferent state.   nj does not currently exist.

[ross3421]

Heavenly Jerusalem and New Jerusalem are the same, because all things are made new "in Christ". Upon our Lord's return, what was previously made new in him is simply manifested for all to see.

they are the same city but at a a diiferent state.   nj does not currently exist. nj is the heavenly made new

[RabbiKnife]

Heavenly Jerusalem and New Jerusalem are the same, because all things are made new "in Christ". Upon our Lord's return, what was previously made new in him is simply manifested for all to see.

they are the same city but at a a diiferent state.   nj does not currently exist. nj is the heavenly made new

You've obviously never been to New Jersey.

 

[Oseas]

In 587 B.C. the Kingdom of Judah was conquered by the Babylonians, and  Jerusalem was destroyed, including the Temple built by Solomon. Many people were forced into exile in Babylon, Daniel was taken captive along with all the other prisoners which lasted until 538 B.C., only after 49 years were they freed in the Medo-Persian reign by King Cyrus, at which time the people of Judah began to return to Israel to rebuild the Temple during 21 years. Check it in Ezra 6:v.15. 

Daniel 7:v.1-4-CJB - Complete Jewish Bible
verse 1 - In the first year of Belshatzar (556 B.C.) king of Bavel(Babylon), Dani’el had a dream and visions in his head, as he was lying on his bed. He wrote the dream down, and this is his account:

verse 2 - “I had a vision at night; I saw there before me the four winds of the heaven breaking out over the Great Sea;
Comments:  Great Sea -> sea is waters => waters are peoples , and nations, and multitudes, and tongues-Revelation 17:v.15; By the way, Gentile nations exclusively. Israel is an island in the middle of the waters or in the middle of the Great Sea; Israel is the dry land, it's the clay.   

verse 3 - and FOUR huge animals came up out of the sea, each different from the others.
Comments:  Four huge animals each different from the others, it means four different nations/peoples. Each one is different from the others, they are four Gentile different nations/peoples.

verses 4; 5; and 6
Comments:   Here goes the four huge biblical kingdoms described by the prophet Daniel:
Details: In fact, one kingdom swallows the other precedent kingdom;
1 - The FIRST huge biblical kingdom-Babylon-,destroyed the kingdom of Judah and the temple of Jerusalem in 587 B.C., it was from 605-539 B.C.
2 - The SECOND huge biblical kingdom swallows the first in 539 B.C. and was from 539 - 330 B.C.
3 - The THIRD huge biblical kingdom swallows the second and what left of the first, and was from 330-146 B.C. 
4 - The FOURTH huge biblical kingdom swallows the third and everything that was left from the first and second kingdoms, and the fourth was divided in two parts (represented by two legs-Daniel 2):
(1st part) the western kingdom, it lasted until 476 AD;
(2nd part) the eastern kingdom, it lasted until 1453 AD.
As we kno, the prophecy of Daniel describes the FOUR huge kingdoms as four animals:
- the FIRST as a lion;
- the SECOND as a bear,
- and the third as a leopard,
- and the fourth as a...what? Isn't there an animal for the fourth kingdom because of how horrible and ugly is the MONSTER of fourth kingdom?

verses 7 an 8
7 - After this, I looked in the night visions; and there before me was a fourth animal, dreadful, horrible, extremely strong, and with great iron teeth. It devoured, crushed and stamped its feet on what was left. It was different from all the animals that had gone before it, and it had ten (10) horns.
8 “While I was considering the (10) horns, another horn sprang up among them (11th), a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. In this horn (11th horn) were eyes like human eyes and a mouth speaking arrogantly. 
Comments:  Very interesting these details: --> The FOURTH huge biblical kingdom swallows-PLUCKED-the third kingdom and everything that's left from the first and second kingdoms BY THE ROOTS. But who or what is this 11th horn which sprang up among the ten(10) horns?  Its no easy to understand, but hard to interpret.
The headquarter of the FOURTH kingdom was in Rome. The fourth kingdom was the Roman Empire which conquered the third kingdom (leopard) in 146 BC, and later conquered or captured Jerusalem, i.e. in 63 B.C., and constituted Herod, a Roman vassal king, as ruler of the Land of Israel, from 63 to 4B.C.,  and although Israel be under the Roman dominion, Jerusalem Temple was renovated by the king Herod.

BIRTH OF JESUS around 3.996 after Adam - the promised Messiah-Fulfilment of Daniel 9:v.24
God sent/sends JESUS and establishes the second covenant, for putting an end to the transgression, for making an end of sin, for forgiving iniquity, for bringing in everlasting Justice, for setting the seal on vision and prophet, and for anointing the Especially Holy Place. Simultaneously, GOD sent Elyjah: Matt.11:12-15-CJB:

- 30 to 33 A.D - Ministry of Jesus after 69 weeks.
JESUS is killed. JESUS is crucified. Fulfilment of Dan.9:v.26-CJB:
26 - Then, AFTER the sixty-two weeks, Mashiach (Messiah) will be cut off and have nothing.

The Gospel of the Kingdom of GOD was being preached in the world in the first century after Christ, and the world was being shaken by the Power of God through the preaching of the Gospel, and beginning to trouble even the Roman Empire.  The believers in JESUS increased every day forming evangelical communities, and Churches were formed within the Roman Empire, among them the Church of Rome. Paul the Apostle writing to the Church of Rome or to the Romans, said: Rom.1:v.13-
13 -  Brothers, I want you to know that although I have been prevented from visiting you until now, I have often planned to do so, in order that I might have some fruit among you, just as I have among the other Gentiles.

The Jews who attended Church services in Rome troubled the brethren with their theories and discussions of the Mosaic cult, and Paul in his epistle said that he was being barred from visiting the brethren of the Church in Rome-Rom.1:v.13.  In chapter 2 Paul speaks harshly to the Jews, especially in verses 17 to 29. 

In fact, it was the embryo of an apostate movement being born in the Church of Rome, an embryo of Antichrist within the Church of the Lord in Rome. John in his universal epistle said: 1 John 2:v.18-19:
18 Children, this is the Last Hour. You have heard that an Anti-Messiah is coming; and in fact, many anti-Messiahs have arisen now — which is how we know that this is the Last Hour. 19 They went out from us, but they weren’t part of us; for had they been part of us, they would have remained with us.

From this apostate, corrupt and satanic environment that began to form and grew in the Church of Rome, led and developed by Jews and other allies in the Church of Rome, the church that was once the Lord's has since now become the throne of Satan, and the Catholic Church was created, later, ROMAN CATHOLIC Church, linked with the demonic government of the Roman Empire that shook, began to persecute believers, even the Apostle Paul was murdered, and also Peter, among many others.

Israel is linked exclusively to 10 tribes, and they are linked with the Roman Catholic Church since the fundation of the Church of Rome within the TERRIBLE fourth kingdom of Roman Empire, even until the current time, they are allied, but they do not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

[Oseas]

Greetings in Christ JESUS

I have seen that there is a lot of confusion about the 7 weeks, and after the threescore and two weeks revealing that the Messiah is cut off, but not for himself. So my focus was to interpret Scriptures until this point that has caused many speculation, what is very sad and bad for us the God's people. Starting by Daniel 9:v.26, to facilitate understanding, in my view, I divide it in two parts, as follow:

(1)"26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

(2) and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; CONSEQUENCES: and the END thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the END of the WAR desolations are determined.
As you and all can see, my focus in the post you are replying, was until the part (1) of the verse 26. All the description of the message is about only the periods of 7 and 62 weeks, until the Messiah be cut off after the week 69, but not for himself, i.e. the Messiah will be taken away, and will be no more here. So, the second Covenant gets established, stays here and remains enshrined on Earth through JESUS, for ever. The validity of JESUS' sacrifice is for an indefinite time, but it will be broken in the middle of the last week as is revealed in Daniel 9:v.27.

That said, there is still to interpret the second point of the verse 26 described above, and also the seventieth and last week - the 70th, after the Messiah - JESUS - which was taken away after 69 weeks that ended in the year 34 BC, there was a gap of 30 years and JESUS was born (3.996 years after Adam or 4 B.C.).

Again:
(2) and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the END of the WAR desolations are determined.
Who is this ruthless and destroyer prince? Ezekiel prophesied about him, saying: "25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel (yeah, PROFANE), whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, or "at the time of final pusnishment " as is written in Jewish Bible. Ez.21:v.25

Ezekiel 21:v.26-27-CJB-Complete Jewish Bible
As for you, you wicked prince of Isra’el, due to be killed, whose day has come, at the time of final punishment, here is what Adonai Elohim says: Remove the diadem, take off the crown! Everything is being changed. What was low will be raised up, and what was high will be brought down. Ruin! Ruin! I will leave it a ruin (Jerusalem/Israel) such as there has never been, and it will stay that way until the rightful ruler comes, and I give it to him.

The prophecy above begins to be fulfilled in the middle of the last week -the 70th week -, with the establishment of the Abomination of Desolation in the middle of the week. THE MATERIAL THINGS ARE FIGURES OF SPIRITUAL THINGS. The validity of JESUS' sacrifice is for an indefinite time, but it will be broken in the middle of the last week of Daniel 9:v.27 with the establishment of the AD. The day has already come, that is, the seventh day, and the fulfillment of the prophecy is now, even now at the beginning of the seventh and last day or the beginning of this seventh and last millennium. It will be now in the last decade of the Devil's world - 2020 to 2030 -, the seven years of the last week, the week 70th Daniel 9:v.27, and it is within this last decade.
CONSEQUENCES: and the END thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the END of the WAR desolations are determined. Dan. 9:v.26

WAR ?
There will be War, yes, and it is already starting. Scriptures say Abomination of Desolation is about the holy and daily sacrifice of JESUS be taken away, which has been valid daily in these last two millenniums, and will be valid even until the END of this current Dispensation of Grace. Yes, it will be valid until the abomination of desolation settles in the holy place, in the temple of God, by the son of perdition, the man of sin, even him whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, then the current Dispensation of Grace gets to the END. See what the Complete Jewish Bible says about the son of perdition, the man of sin, as follows:

2 Thes. 2:v.6-8 CJB
6 - And now you know what is restraining, so that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For already this separating from Torah is at work secretly, but it will be secretly only until he who is restraining is out of the way. 8 Then the one who embodies separation from Torah will be revealed, the one whom the Lord Yeshua will slay with the breath of his mouth(with the Word of His mouth) and destroy by the glory of his coming.

Who is this PROFANE and WICKED and ruthless Prince, skilled in intrigue? Who is the son of perdition? Who is the Man Beast who has two horns like a lamb, and speaks as Dragon, the 666? Revelation 13:v.11 to 18. Who is the little horn, even him " which sprang up and before which three fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth speaking arrogantly and seemed greater than the others (ten horns). 21 I watched, and that horn made (will make) WAR with the holy ones and was (will) winning"?Daniel 7:v.20-21 CJB-

I elaborated four questions and with details about the same person, trying to facilitate the identification of this prophetic EVIL character. What I can and must state is that this EVIL character was born decades ago, evidently, for he must most likely manifest himself before the middle of this decade because the last week of Daniel 9:v.27 is within this current decade. JESUS said to the Jews: I have come in my Father’s name, and you don’t accept me; if someone else comes in his own name (AN IMPORTOR, say I), him you will accept. John 5:v.43CJB. In fact, the Beast like a lamb who will come of the earth(Israel, the clay, the dry land), he is an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah, the future ruler and guide of the people of the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Israel, followers of the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Judaism, actually a Torah is in the hands of the Devil, their wiser Master and father. This satanic Man Beast, son of perdition, comes from the tribe of Dan; Patriarch Jacob prophesied about him-Genesis 49:v.14. He is of the 10 tribes of Israel, but the tribe of Dan does not make part of the 12 tribes in Revelation 7. He is the little horn who sprang up among the 10 horns-10 tribes of Israel.

Revelation 17:v.12 - 13 CJB
12 The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet begun to rule, but they receive power as kings for one hour, along with the Beast (of sea, say I, because here the 10 horns will be linked to the Beast of sea for 1.260 days-the FIRST half of the last week). 13 They have one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the Beast. 14 They will go to War against the Lamb...(according Revelation 13:v.5 combined with Revelation 11:v.1-2)

Revelation 17:v.11-CJB
11 The Beast which once was (WAS ONE OF THE 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL) and now is not(belongs to the 12 tribes of Israel no more-Revelation 7) is an eighth king; (it is the eighth after he takes back his throne from the seventh Beast of sea to whom he had given when one of the 7 heads of the Beast of sea was wounded to death-Revelation 13:v.2, and he - the Jewish messiah of the tribe of Dan- will be enthroned as the eighth in his kingdom, the kingdom of Antichrist, so) it comes from the seven and is on its way to destruction.

Be careful and get ready

God bless

[journeyman]

Of course I agree with that as a general concept. But the specific passage in the Olivet Discourse had to do, I believe, with the Jewish disciples of Jesus who Jesus wanted to avoid a judgment that was not meant for the obedient--the Jewish invasion of Jerusalem. Jesus counselled his disciples to "run" when Roman troops started gearing up to come to Israel as an invading, conquering force. They were already in charge, but they were coming to put down a Jewish revolt.

Would you agree that the Olivet discourse is contrary to, fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul... Mt.10:28?

This was an old lesson that should've been learned when Babylon approached Jerusalem with the same thing in mind. Jeremiah counselled the Jews in Jerusalem to capitulate to and to surrender to the invading forces, since it had been predetermined by God as a judgment for Israel's idolatry. But the people largely ignored Jeremiah's warnings, and fled to Egypt.

This was the same thing in Jesus' day, with the Jews refusing to submit to Rome. And so, they brought on the worst judgment from God in Israel's history, since it was predetermined to last throughout the present age.

But the followers of God have endured suffering throughout history. Our Savior is the greatest example of this. Fleeing to the mountains, not being concerned with wordly possessions etc, are things we do when we see calamity coming.

[journeyman]

they are the same city but at a a diiferent state.   nj does not currently exist. nj is the heavenly made new

It does exist now, because that city is the believers colloctively,

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, Heb.12:22

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, Isa.28:16

Jerusalem which is above is free Gal.4:26

We're free in Jesus now. We're built on him. We've become a part of his city now.

[RandyPNW]

Of course I agree with that as a general concept. But the specific passage in the Olivet Discourse had to do, I believe, with the Jewish disciples of Jesus who Jesus wanted to avoid a judgment that was not meant for the obedient--the Jewish invasion of Jerusalem. Jesus counselled his disciples to "run" when Roman troops started gearing up to come to Israel as an invading, conquering force. They were already in charge, but they were coming to put down a Jewish revolt.

Would you agree that the Olivet discourse is contrary to, fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul... Mt.10:28?

The general concept I of course agree with, since Jesus taught it. But this wasn't the specific context in which this applied to that particular verse. Keeping our faith in the context of threatening our lives applies when we are persecuted, and not when a nation is being judged. Jesus was counseling his followers to avoid a judgment that was meant for the nation as a whole, but not specifically for them as a righteous following.

This was an old lesson that should've been learned when Babylon approached Jerusalem with the same thing in mind. Jeremiah counselled the Jews in Jerusalem to capitulate to and to surrender to the invading forces, since it had been predetermined by God as a judgment for Israel's idolatry. But the people largely ignored Jeremiah's warnings, and fled to Egypt.

This was the same thing in Jesus' day, with the Jews refusing to submit to Rome. And so, they brought on the worst judgment from God in Israel's history, since it was predetermined to last throughout the present age.

But the followers of God have endured suffering throughout history. Our Savior is the greatest example of this. Fleeing to the mountains, not being concerned with wordly possessions etc, are things we do when we see calamity coming.

Yes, but you're losing the context in part. Yes, part of this Discourse is about Christians being willing to suffer in perilous times. But it has, most of all, to do with the difference between the righteous and the unrighteous in a nation. And it has to do with national judgment, and not just with the Church. I've been endeavoring to explain this--otherwise, I don't think the Olivet Discourse can properly be understood.

But yes, these semi-related concepts are important too. They just don't help us appreciate the greater context of this Discourse.

[ross3421]

they are the same city but at a a diiferent state.   nj does not currently exist. nj is the heavenly made new

It does exist now, because that city is the believers colloctively,

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, Heb.12:22

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, Isa.28:16

Jerusalem which is above is free Gal.4:26

We're free in Jesus now. We're built on him. We've become a part of his city now.

yes heavely jerusalem exists now which is replaced by a new j.   just like all the heavens and earth.


21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.



the new heavens and earth do not exist today

[journeyman]

Yes, but you're losing the context in part. Yes, part of this Discourse is about Christians being willing to suffer in perilous times. But it has, most of all, to do with the difference between the righteous and the unrighteous in a nation. And it has to do with national judgment, and not just with the Church. I've been endeavoring to explain this--otherwise, I don't think the Olivet Discourse can properly be understood.

But yes, these semi-related concepts are important too. They just don't help us appreciate the greater context of this Discourse.

If by national judgement you mean on "the Jews", I disagree. Jesus is specifically pointing to devastation caused by faith in him, not to mention the general wars & rumors of wars.
I do agree about the context of the righteous and unrighteous in a nation and by that I mean those with faith in Jesus and those opposed.
They are told to flee when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the Holy Place. I see this warning differently than most. I see the abomination of desolation as "someone" who places himself in God's stead. And quite frankly, that's exactly what we get when we see why our Savior was nailed to the cross.

[journeyman]

yes heavely jerusalem exists now which is replaced by a new j.   just like all the heavens and earth.

We're transformed, not replaced.

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

The heaven and earth is new now,

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Cor.5:17

No more sea because we're one in Christ regardless of race and for the rest, we have no right to judge another mans servant.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

We're that in him now,

 I have espoused you to one husband, 2Cor.11:2

the new heavens and earth do not exist today

unforseen by most for sure.