The Prophetic Word

[Fenris]

You say; 'we cannot know for sure until it happens'.

I'm kind of adopting a 'wait and see attitude' myself. The bible is sufficiently vague that while it seems that some events will certainly happen, others might not. And it doesn't even give a clear order of things. I'm just trusting God to make matters rights. As it says in Ecclesiastes, "Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind."

[RandyPNW]

I do agree that trying to explain, in detail. all of the biblical prophecies is an exercise in futility and may in fact miss the point.  The prophecies are designed not just to satisfy our curiosity, but rather, to keep the faithful directed in a just way.

[keraz]

I agree we are not told where we go right after we rise to meet the Lord. To be honest, I never gave it much thought. He could take us to an island paradise, Heaven, to battle, or wherever else He wanted, I have always been so looking forward to being with Him that it didn’t matter much where He leads. You do have me curious now though. I also agree our final place is to be back on a refurbished (purged) earth and not forever in Heaven. Where I differ in understanding is the rising group at that time. I thing the martyrs during the tribulation are a different group than those that are gathered in the “rapture”. I think the rapture is to raise all those that are saved. I believe there will be a separate rising for the “dead” (unsaved) for final judgement at the white throne.

So where do you believe the souls of those that are saved are at right now that are dead? You will probably say it’s another lie from satan or something but I believe those that bodies “sleep”, are alive and well in Heaven with our Lord now in spirit. I believe the “rapture” for the saved will be a person’s reunion of the old body that is recreated into our eternal body.

But the Bible is plain; we will be where Jesus will be. And clearly, that is in earthly Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:3

What you call a 'rapture', as described in 1 Thess 4:17 and Matthew 24:31, is not any kind of bodily change, it is just a gathering, a horizontal transportation as what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39, Ezekiel 3:12-15

Where are the dead?  They know nothing; Eccl 9:5-6, and they 'sleep' in their graves. Acts 13:36   
Only the souls of the martyrs are allowed to cry out at times. Revelation 6:9-11  And only the martyrs killed during the final 42 months of this age will be raised when Jesus Returns. Revelation 20:4-5

ALL the dead, everyone who has ever lived will be brought before God in the final Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15 Only those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality.
Thinking the dead are conscious and in heaven, is very pretentious.  How can that be before any Judgment?  No; they 'sleep' as the Bible tells us and for them their next conscious moment will be as they stand before God on His Great White Throne.

[keraz]

You say; 'we cannot know for sure until it happens'.

I'm kind of adopting a 'wait and see attitude' myself. The bible is sufficiently vague that while it seems that some events will certainly happen, others might not. And it doesn't even give a clear order of things. I'm just trusting God to make matters rights. As it says in Ecclesiastes, "Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind."

I do agree that trying to explain, in detail. all of the biblical prophecies is an exercise in futility and may in fact miss the point.  The prophecies are designed not just to satisfy our curiosity, but rather, to keep the faithful directed in a just way.

Thanks Fenris and Randy; posters from the old Bible Forum.

You two are like many people; unable to properly comprehend what the Prophets have Written.
Yes; they are very mixed up and often have a two, or more; fulfillments.  Revelation does give the sequence for the world up to now, the end times and beyond.

Far from being 'an exercise in futility', we do well to study of the Prophetic Word: at the Day break, when the morning Star rises, it will illuminate our minds. 2 Peter 1:19
This verse is an obvious reference to the many prophesied Day that the Lord will arise and change the world. Psalms 7:6-16, 2 Peter 3:7

[Fenris]

Thanks Fenris and Randy; posters from the old Bible Forum.

Hello.

You two are like many people; unable to properly comprehend what the Prophets have Written.

How fortunate that you are here to teach us, then.

[keraz]

How fortunate that you are here to teach us, then.

I can only try, by pointing out what the Bible actually says.

But people who have already decided what they want God to do, are actually made incapable of understanding the truths of Bible prophecy. Isaiah 29:9-12, Jeremiah 4:22  [All of Jeremiah 4 is about end times events. ]

[Fenris]

I can only try, by pointing out what the Bible actually says.

But you're not pointing out what the bible says. You're quoting the bible, and then telling us what you personally think it means.

All of Jeremiah 4 is about end times events.

And this is a perfect example. It seems most likely that that Jeremiah 4 was a warning for the people of Judea more than 2500 years ago. That is after all who it is addressed to: "For so said the Lord to the people of Judah and to Jerusalem...O people of Judah and dwellers of Jerusalem...Tell in Judah and in Jerusalem..." etc etc etc.

Mind you, I'm all for exciting end times discussions. But let's stick to what the text actually says.

[Brother Mike]

OK. Well, I think we can all agree that some revelations given to us in God's Word may cause some confusion and be interpreted differently.

I am having an issue with people telling others that they are emphatically wrong in their beliefs and interpretations. I have waited a bit to see how this thread was going to progress.

I am going to lock this topic for the time being.

If folks want to continue this, take it to the controversial area and continue there. I will see if I can move the topic, if that is the general consensus. PM me your thoughts.