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Matthew 26:42-43 King James Version

He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.

The scene underscores Jesus' submission to the Father's will and his redemptive sacrifice. This event is central to Christian theology, representing Jesus' surrender into the hands of soldiers as part of the divine plan for humanity's redemption.

Matthew 26:53 King James Version

Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

This passage seems to suggest that, in stating that He could summon angels through prayer to the Father, Jesus was highlighting His authority over circumstances, including the Father's already established will. This prayer would represent a channel to express, if necessary, the adjustment of the Son's will in line with the already established redemptive plan, disregarding the Father's will.

In summary, does the fact that Jesus changes the will of the Father make Him coequal to Him?

Quote from: meshak on October 11, 2023, 11:28:00 AM

You still cannot refute Jesus' word of "His Father is His God".

You guys dancing around too much, friend.

God is Jesus' God. But He is also God because He is the Word of God in human form. He is the Son of God because God's Spirit caused His conception in Mary's womb, but He is God in the sense of being the Word incarnate. The Apostle John opens his Gospel presenting Jesus as He was before He was Jesus. We're told that the Word was both with God and was God from eternity (John 1:1-3), and that the Word was robed in humanity, and dwelled among men (John 1:14).

As you read these words, consider that they are my thoughts--invisible, unknown and unknowable to you. Yet, they are given substance and made manifest by my words. They are still my thoughts, but represented in a way you can know them. In a similar way, God is an invisible Spirit, unknown and unknowable to us until He manifests and reveals Himself by means of His Word. In the opening verses of Genesis, He was displeased with the watery darkness in which the earth was submerged. It was His will that there be light. He sent forth His word, and there was light.

In a similar way, Abraham was steeped in a culture of dark paganism and idolatry and the true Almighty was unknown until God revealed Himself to Abraham by speaking to Him. In the midst of the spiritual darkness, God enlightened the mind of a man by sending forth His word to reveal Himself, initiating the beginning of His work of man's redemption. This principle is beautifully depicted by the prophet Isaiah:

For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat, so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it. (Isaiah 55:8-11)

God's manifests Himself and reveals His mind, will and purpose by means of His divine word, and Jesus is the human incarnation of that word. That's why Paul calls Him "the image of the invisible God." And that's why Jesus said that to see Him was to see the Father (John 14:9). Jesus spoke of being one with God even before the world existed (John 14:5), and of being sent forth from God to accomplish His will (John 4:34; 8:42; 16;27-28; 17:8-9). Thus, Jesus, as the Word of God incarnate, is declared to have proceeded forth from God to fulfill His purpose in the same manner described by Isaiah. Moreover, He returned to Him not void, but having fully accomplished the purpose for which He was sent by means of His sacrificial death and resurrection.

So yes, God is the God and Father of Jesus. But Jesus is God as the divine Word incarnate; now and forever a temple of glorified humanity in whom dwells the Spirit of God. He has returned to the Father as depicted in Daniel 7:13, and will one day return to establish His earthly kingdom. Those who dwell in that kingdom will not see the invisible God, but will behold upon the throne the Word that reveals and manifests Him, as the king of glory.

Quote from: Sojourner on August 19, 2024, 06:53:24 PM

Quote from: Kingfisher on August 19, 2024, 05:04:58 PM

Quote from: Sojourner on August 19, 2024, 04:34:18 PM

I mean, we have passages telling us God doesn't want anyone to perish, and that salvation is freely offered to whosoever will.

There are many passages that are difficult for the Calvinist to reconcile and I've seen the explanations. Though, the most difficult to reconcile passage for the Calvinist would be Romans 5:18

Quote

Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

All means all in both ideas of the passage right? It is the same Greek word in both uses translated as all.

When doctrine requires one to reconcile clear, unambiguous scripture, something's definitely wrong with the doctrine.

Reconcile this
"God hath closed their eyes and stopped their ears lest seeing they should believe and hearing they should understand and turn to Me to save them"

or reconcile this
"No man cometh to Me unless the Father draw him"