BibleForums Christian Message Board
General Category => In General => Topic started by: Sojourner on February 19, 2024, 10:49:14 AM
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We know the debt has exceeded 34 trillion and is steadily increasing, but watching the 2 million dollars per minute increase in real time, is a sobering sight.
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
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We can just print some more to cover the interest
We can’t be out of money…. We still have checks in the checkbook…
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There's no small government party anymore.
Unbelievably, if we set government spending to 2019 levels, we'd be running a surplus. But it's not even a talking point.
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When interest payments exceed defense spending you know the empire is in trouble. Guess which nation is soon to join that not-so-prestigious club?
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When interest payments exceed defense spending you know the empire is in trouble. Guess which nation is soon to join that not-so-prestigious club?
For more cheerful thoughts, what happens as more and more of the debt has to be refinanced at current interest rates?
If you owe $34,000,000,000,000 and have to pay 5% interest on it that means $1,700,000,000,000 in interest every year. At that point you're looking at something like $3.2m per minute in interest payments.
The Federal Reserve could monetise the debt but given what happened to inflation when the government pumped a few trillion into the economy we can only guess how ugly it might be if the Fed suddenly started throwing tens of trillions of dollars of extra money around.
As the old question goes, "where are we going and what are we doing in this handbasket?"
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I like my position
No debt
Investments are liquid
Moderate cost of living
Grow a lot of our own food in the summer
As soon as internet rates on CDs go to 18%, I’m locking the whole thing in for 5 years, using actual cash on hand to buy only the necessities.
And ka- CHInG!
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I like my position
No debt
Investments are liquid
Moderate cost of living
Grow a lot of our own food in the summer
As soon as internet rates on CDs go to 18%, I’m locking the whole thing in for 5 years, using actual cash on hand to buy only the necessities.
And ka- CHInG!
If the Fed starts pumping trillions into the economy to monetise the kind of debt that's going to be needed I'm not sure that 18% would turn out to be a good rate to lock in for 5 years.
I've often thought about growing my own food but without a means to protect it you just end up feeding an army of hungry others who won't necessarily leave you any. I've been toying with the idea of turning part of my roof into a flat space for a rooftop garden, so it still gets the sun and rain and pollination by bugs but isn't so easily raidable. I just don't know how strong the supports would need to be, and whether I could get away with it as far as things like code are concerned. The joists I've got there look like they are probably 2x8s - maybe I wouldn't need as much soil as I'm thinking I might need. And it would have the added advantage that things like voles wouldn't be able to get at it.
I'm not sure I'd try growing fruit trees in a rooftop garden though. That might not end well.
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I like my position
No debt
Investments are liquid
Moderate cost of living
Grow a lot of our own food in the summer
As soon as internet rates on CDs go to 18%, I’m locking the whole thing in for 5 years, using actual cash on hand to buy only the necessities.
And ka- CHInG!
If the Fed starts pumping trillions into the economy to monetise the kind of debt that's going to be needed I'm not sure that 18% would turn out to be a good rate to lock in for 5 years.
I've often thought about growing my own food but without a means to protect it you just end up feeding an army of hungry others who won't necessarily leave you any. I've been toying with the idea of turning part of my roof into a flat space for a rooftop garden, so it still gets the sun and rain and pollination by bugs but isn't so easily raidable. I just don't know how strong the supports would need to be, and whether I could get away with it as far as things like code are concerned. The joists I've got there look like they are probably 2x8s - maybe I wouldn't need as much soil as I'm thinking I might need. And it would have the added advantage that things like voles wouldn't be able to get at it.
I'm not sure I'd try growing fruit trees in a rooftop garden though. That might not end well.
Rooftop hydroponics
Water/nutrient supply at ground level with a pump up to roof
You would have negligible weight on roof
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I like my position
No debt
Investments are liquid
Moderate cost of living
Grow a lot of our own food in the summer
As soon as internet rates on CDs go to 18%, I’m locking the whole thing in for 5 years, using actual cash on hand to buy only the necessities.
And ka- CHInG!
If the Fed starts pumping trillions into the economy to monetise the kind of debt that's going to be needed I'm not sure that 18% would turn out to be a good rate to lock in for 5 years.
I've often thought about growing my own food but without a means to protect it you just end up feeding an army of hungry others who won't necessarily leave you any. I've been toying with the idea of turning part of my roof into a flat space for a rooftop garden, so it still gets the sun and rain and pollination by bugs but isn't so easily raidable. I just don't know how strong the supports would need to be, and whether I could get away with it as far as things like code are concerned. The joists I've got there look like they are probably 2x8s - maybe I wouldn't need as much soil as I'm thinking I might need. And it would have the added advantage that things like voles wouldn't be able to get at it.
I'm not sure I'd try growing fruit trees in a rooftop garden though. That might not end well.
Rooftop hydroponics
Water/nutrient supply at ground level with a pump up to roof
You would have negligible weight on roof
Physically getting at the roof isn't a problem, I can run a pipe to feed exactly where I want it to be. Hydroponics is an interesting idea, I hadn't considered that. I just need to figure what weight of water I'd need to grow anything in useful quantities.
To keep things better protected you've got me thinking about a nutrient supply in the basement with pipes running to where they need to be. I guess they'd want to be PEX so they didn't freeze in the winter.
Maybe creating a flat roof garden is a viable proposition. I'm still not sure what, if anything, building code would say about it. But as a preliminary process I'd just replace a very old roof with a new roof, and the new roof would be flat. Then later on I'd figure that the new roof was flat enough to walk out onto, purely in order to provide access to repair it and the main roof. Not for leisure use, as that would require railings and all sorts of other things. But maybe in the future someone might decide that it was easy to install a railing so it could be useable outdoor space.
This could work....
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In just over a year since the original post, the debt has increased by 2 trillion dollars to over 26 1/2 trillion. For context, a stack of 26 trillion one-dollar bills would be about 1,760,000 miles high, or over 7 times the distance from the earth to the moon. That's mind-boggling.
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We can just print some more to cover the interest
We can’t be out of money…. We still have checks in the checkbook…
Trump's solution is tariffs and Doge ... if it works I'm predicting he will at least halve that debt by the next election
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At the end of Donald's second term, the US will be regarded as an untrustworthy nation and "who cares, we have the rest of the world".
This is one for the eschatologists. Why isn't the US, the most powerful nation on earth, mentioned in end times prophecy? Because when it happens, it isn't, and look, isn't it so exciting? Maybe Donald really is God's tool. And I do mean, 'tool'.
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Crossing the Rubicon, as tariffs on China surge to 245%.
The U.S. people will rise up.
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We know the debt has exceeded 34 trillion and is steadily increasing, but watching the 2 million dollars per minute increase in real time, is a sobering sight.
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
Thank God we now have a President that is addressing the issue. ( I am scared to watch that link...lol)
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We know the debt has exceeded 34 trillion and is steadily increasing, but watching the 2 million dollars per minute increase in real time, is a sobering sight.
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
Thank God we now have a President that is addressing the issue. ( I am scared to watch that link...lol)
You have a "President" that tanked 10 trillion in market value to claim a $500 million dollar win.
He's not addressing anything.
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Crossing the Rubicon, as tariffs on China surge to 245%.
The U.S. people will rise up.
It's really just a trade blockade at that point, and China owns the US in this trade relation. Trump's making America pre-WW1 great again. Some backwater nation across the pond with no real impact on anything, anywhere, ever.
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Crossing the Rubicon, as tariffs on China surge to 245%.
The U.S. people will rise up.
It's really just a trade blockade at that point, and China owns the US in this trade relation. Trump's making America pre-WW1 great again. Some backwater nation across the pond with no real impact on anything, anywhere, ever.
Power to impose tariffs actually belongs to Congress, not a dictatorial Executive Branch.
Sigificant lawsuits are pending - the Court will need to act.
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Crossing the Rubicon, as tariffs on China surge to 245%.
The U.S. people will rise up.
It's really just a trade blockade at that point, and China owns the US in this trade relation. Trump's making America pre-WW1 great again. Some backwater nation across the pond with no real impact on anything, anywhere, ever.
Power to impose tariffs actually belongs to Congress, not a dictatorial Executive Branch.
Sigificant lawsuits are pending - the Court will need to act.
Congress pointed on tariffs years ago so as now to be held accountable by their constituents
It’s all ok
Too much hair on fire in the press
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Trump's solution is tariffs and Doge ... if it works I'm predicting he will at least halve that debt by the next election
Tariffs are just a tax on American consumers. Doge cutting waste and spending is a good thing, but it's not going to have a major impact on the budget.
Let's see what budget gets passed.
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We can just print some more to cover the interest
We can’t be out of money…. We still have checks in the checkbook…
Trump's solution is tariffs and Doge ... if it works I'm predicting he will at least halve that debt by the next election
Not a snowball's chance in hell he can halve the debt. Maybe halve the deficit but even that's a tall order.
If he manages to cut something in the region of $7 trillion in government spending per year and sustain it, feel free to throw that right back at me.
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Not a snowball's chance in hell he can halve the debt. Maybe halve the deficit but even that's a tall order.
If he manages to cut something in the region of $7 trillion in government spending per year and sustain it, feel free to throw that right back at me.
Maybe not half but at least he is attempting to address it. That alone increases lender confidence. In any case, when have we ever had a President who even mention the national debt much less did anything about it. There may have been one but I don't recall any.
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Not a snowball's chance in hell he can halve the debt. Maybe halve the deficit but even that's a tall order.
If he manages to cut something in the region of $7 trillion in government spending per year and sustain it, feel free to throw that right back at me.
Maybe not half but at least he is attempting to address it. That alone increases lender confidence. In any case, when have we ever had a President who even mention the national debt much less did anything about it. There may have been one but I don't recall any.
Only like, every President ever? Remember when Bush was going to have a balanced federal budget in 2012, starting from 2007? Reagonomics? Nixon's 1974 Congressional budget? The Impoundment Control Act? JFK's 1963 - 1964 budgets? Every single President has talked about the national debt.
My guy, there is utterly no lender confidence in the USA right now, let alone with Donald going off on Truth Social every other minute telling his followers to buy the dip in some sort of grotesque display of insider trading.
Donald is going to bankrupt the US just as he's bankrupted his hotels and casinos. There is no "art of the deal"; it's a facade, the Emperor is naked. But as long as he keeps blaming the immigrants, those with ASD and other disabilities, and the so-called LGBTQ, it's all good or something.
I can't even visit the US anymore. The guy is not good for America.
His abuse of power to put in place tariffs, bypassing congress, and making posts on Truth Social that devastate the market? The guy is going to destroy America. You can say goodbye to affordable. People are going to 86 themselves. Companies large and small are going to fold. The economy will stall. America is looking at worst-case-possible, and I am astounded that there is anyone who has anything positive to say about the man.
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Yea. I have heard about balancing the budget but haven't heard anyone mention eliminating the national debt.
All of the downgrades have been on a democrat watch but it looks like that will change:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2025/03/28/moodys-last-credit-rater-giving-us-top-marks-turns-negative/
Forbes:
The U.S. economy, not about to collapse, is also far from stable, strong, and worry-free, as various indicators and signs have shown. Now it’s time to remember another.
Moody’s Investors Service, while currently maintaining the top credit rating of the country, also keeps its negative outlook since November 2023. Moody’s is the last of the major credit rating agencies to keep the U.S. at its highest possible position.
Previous Downgrades
The first time the U.S. got a rating below AAA (or other variations like Aaa) was in August 2011. Standard & Poor’s downgraded the U.S. to AA+ after having put the country on a credit watch in July, CNN reported at the time. To avoid a downgrade, S&P had wanted to see the debt ceiling raised (which affects previous spending, not future) and a “credible” plan to deal with the long-term debt.
Fitch Ratings downgraded U.S. debt from AAA to AA+ in August 2023, according to CNN. The change happened after a last-minute agreement to raise the debt ceiling, citing “a steady deterioration in standards of governance.” Fitch cited the January 6th insurrection as a significant concern.
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America is looking at worst-case-possible, and I am astounded that there is anyone who has anything positive to say about the man.
There are some positives.
He's pro law and order. He's actually trying to deport hardened criminals and gang members who are in the country illegally.
He's pro Israel. He understands the threat from Islamic fundamentalist terrorism. I don't know if he understands the danger of a nuclear Iran, although he sometimes talks as though he does.
He's a huge upgrade from Joe Biden and Kamala would have been much, much worse.
The bad: Tariffs, which he has no authority to enact, and which are a huge tax on American consumers. The haphazard way they're here today, gone tomorrow, is not good for business.
Some of his cabinet appointments are terrible. Tulsi doesn't believe that Iran wants to build nukes; but then, she was pro Assad and pro Putin. RFK Jr is a nut.
Just off the top of my head
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America is looking at worst-case-possible, and I am astounded that there is anyone who has anything positive to say about the man.
There are some positives.
He's pro law and order. He's actually trying to deport hardened criminals and gang members who are in the country illegally.
He's pro Israel. He understands the threat from Islamic fundamentalist terrorism. I don't know if he understands the danger of a nuclear Iran, although he sometimes talks as though he does.
He's a huge upgrade from Joe Biden and Kamala would have been much, much worse.
The bad: Tariffs, which he has no authority to enact, and which are a huge tax on American consumers. The haphazard way they're here today, gone tomorrow, is not good for business.
Some of his cabinet appointments are terrible. Tulsi doesn't believe that Iran wants to build nukes; but then, she was pro Assad and pro Putin. RFK Jr is a nut.
Just off the top of my head
My big existential problem is that under Biden + Kamala (who would be awful in their own way), I could keep visiting the US. Under Donald, I can't, and unlike Biden and Kamala he also comes with nonsense 51st state and Greenland rhetoric, not to mention Truth Social... So any potential positive gets immediately noped in my head as I'd have gathered the devil we know to this one we don't.
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So any potential positive gets immediately noped in my head as I'd have gathered the devil we know to this one we don't.
I don't think that Kamala was "the devil we know". She would be worse than Joe (or whoever was running the government behind the scenes) in so many ways.
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He's pro law and order. He's actually trying to deport hardened criminals and gang members who are in the country illegally.
Appears to be pro law and order for everyone else except him and his cronies in cabinet. The abandonment of due process is probably the most troubling thing I've seen.
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He's pro law and order. He's actually trying to deport hardened criminals and gang members who are in the country illegally.
Appears to be pro law and order for everyone else except him and his cronies in cabinet. The abandonment of due process is probably the most troubling thing I've seen.
Give me an actual example of lacking due process.
I’m not aware of any where a court has demonstrated a lack of due process
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So any potential positive gets immediately noped in my head as I'd have gathered the devil we know to this one we don't.
I don't think that Kamala was "the devil we know". She would be worse than Joe (or whoever was running the government behind the scenes) in so many ways.
At the risk of being called a bigoted maga Trumpster., I admit I voted for Trump. I like his support of Israel. I like his desire to return manufacturing to the US. I like his support of Christians. I like his hard line stance on Iranian nukes. I like his stance on illegal immigration. I like his addressing the national debt
I don't like the extreme tariffs. There are too much too fast.
I don't like his apparent bias of Russia over Ukraine. His demand that they give up territory is reminiscent of the appeasement of Hitler by Chamberlain. After USSR dissolution in 1991, Ukraine inherited about 130 UR-100N intercontinental ballistic missiles with six warheads each, 46 RT-23 Molodets ICBMs with ten warheads apiece, as well as 33 heavy bombers, totaling approximately 1,700 nuclear warheads that remained on Ukrainian territory. They gave them all up with assurances we (nato) would help if they were ever invaded. It wasn't a binding treaty but we still gave our word.
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Crossing the Rubicon, as tariffs on China surge to 245%.
The U.S. people will rise up.
It's really just a trade blockade at that point, and China owns the US in this trade relation. Trump's making America pre-WW1 great again. Some backwater nation across the pond with no real impact on anything, anywhere, ever.
Power to impose tariffs actually belongs to Congress, not a dictatorial Ex currentecutive Branch.
Sigificant lawsuits are pending - the Court will need to act.
These tariffs cannot survive currently pending lawsuits, imo.
Administration's unilateral actions on tariffs cannot be deemed valid or legal, ultimately.
What is the International Emergency Economic Powers Act?
https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R45618
Cancel this insane tariff policy and rescue the world. It's on the courts
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At the risk of being called a bigoted maga Trumpster., I admit I voted for Trump.
So did I.
I like his support of Israel. I like his desire to return manufacturing to the US. I like his support of Christians. I like his hard line stance on Iranian nukes. I like his stance on illegal immigration. I like his addressing the national debt
Same!
I don't like the extreme tariffs. There are too much too fast.
I don't like his apparent bias of Russia over Ukraine. His demand that they give up territory is reminiscent of the appeasement of Hitler by Chamberlain. After USSR dissolution in 1991, Ukraine inherited about 130 UR-100N intercontinental ballistic missiles with six warheads each, 46 RT-23 Molodets ICBMs with ten warheads apiece, as well as 33 heavy bombers, totaling approximately 1,700 nuclear warheads that remained on Ukrainian territory. They gave them all up with assurances we (nato) would help if they were ever invaded. It wasn't a binding treaty but we still gave our word.
Agree!
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Give me an actual example of lacking due process.
I’m not aware of any where a court has demonstrated a lack of due process
Same.