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Bible Talk => Just Bible => Topic started by: theMadJW on November 13, 2021, 01:43:55 PM

Title: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 13, 2021, 01:43:55 PM
Ghost are the 'immortal souls' of 'dead' departed ones!
How was it translated as GHOST???




(https://themadjw.weebly.com/uploads/1/2/2/2/12223196/allpower_1_orig.jpg)
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RabbiKnife on November 13, 2021, 05:14:54 PM
Just 17th century English

No big deal

And there are no such things as ghosts
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RandyPNW on November 13, 2021, 06:30:29 PM
Yes. Not the way we think of Halloween spooks. ;) "Ghost" and "Spirit" are interchangeable, so that "ghost" would mean "spirit," and vice versa.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 14, 2021, 10:56:17 AM
Just 17th century English

No big deal

And there are no such things as ghosts

A big thank you to the Ghostbusters.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 14, 2021, 02:06:00 PM
So, the Third part of the Triune God just...disappeared!
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RandyPNW on November 14, 2021, 05:15:29 PM
No, the arguments against the Holy Spirit just disappeared! ;)
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 14, 2021, 05:25:44 PM
So, the Third part of the Triune God just...disappeared!

Third person*, and that's quite the ridiculous leap.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 15, 2021, 06:36:12 AM
Clergy have long turned the holy (set apart) spirit (breath) as a ... unnamed, unseen GHOST! (https://themadjw.weebly.com/uploads/1/2/2/2/12223196/ghostfun-copy_orig.jpg)(http://[https://themadjw.weebly.com/uploads/1/2/2/2/12223196/ghostfun-copy_orig.jpg/img])
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RabbiKnife on November 15, 2021, 07:25:04 AM
"I ain't scared of no ghost."

Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RabbiKnife on November 15, 2021, 07:38:35 AM
And of course, my favorite ghost.

(Caspar is like, not)

Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 15, 2021, 08:02:02 AM
Good ones! (http://file:///K:/Bible/HolySpirit/!!!!.jpg)
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 15, 2021, 09:43:50 AM
Clergy have long turned the holy (set apart) spirit (breath) as a ... unnamed, unseen GHOST!

Do you go around as a JW Poe to get other people to toss-up refutations of JW theology on purpose?
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 15, 2021, 09:50:21 AM
Are you going to say something in English?
Are you going to discuss the topic?

Did you know the holy ghost was up in Job's Nose?

Job 27:3- All the while my breath is in me, and the Spirit of God is
in my nostrils...

Was the imaginary Almighty Ghost-God in Job's NOSTRILS? ???
Or was the pure (holy) power (spirit) of God keeping him alive &
breathing?
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RabbiKnife on November 15, 2021, 10:05:03 AM
The word "pneuma" -- in both the Greek New Testament and in the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) -- is used for "wind," "breath," "spirit", as the context requires.  And the word for "spirit" -- either pneuma or ruach -- is never translated "power".

The NASB for Job 27 says "breath of God," which is a very good translation of the Hebrew.  So you are equivocating between "spirit" and "breath" for some reason, when the context clearly demonstrates that there is no attempt to say the Holy Spirit, as in the third person of the Trinity, is in someone's nose.

But, in reality, for the believer, that is certainly true, so what's the point?

Are you disagreeing with 1 Cor 6:19?  (Do you not know that your body is the temple of the holy spirit within you, which you have from God?)
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 15, 2021, 10:08:29 AM
You miss the point, blinded by your theology.

"Breath", and "Wind" were used the DESCRIBE God's power, or the form of God, Jesus, Demon & Angels.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RabbiKnife on November 15, 2021, 10:20:11 AM
OK, well, that's just not true...

I'm sure you have a list of passages that support your interpretation, nu?
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 15, 2021, 10:29:05 AM
Then how is the your "Holy Ghost-God" up Job's nose?
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 15, 2021, 10:31:22 AM
So Jehovah fills millions of people with His "GHOST"?
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RabbiKnife on November 15, 2021, 10:44:14 AM
No.  And you still seem to be hung up on this "Ghost" things, as has already been dealt with as "ghost" is simply an Elizabethan era English word for "spirit," having nothing to do with Caspar, disembodied spirits of dead people, or Space Ghost.

Billions.

Or do you disagree with 1 Cor. 6:19?

Or

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Or

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
Romans 8:26



John 14:15-17
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Ephesians 5:18

Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.


Romans 8:9-11

You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 15, 2021, 10:54:52 AM
Again the spirit ('breath, wind') of God and Christ.
NOT a Third Spirit Being!
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 15, 2021, 10:56:57 AM
Are you going to discuss the topic?

I might, if this was actually a discussion.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RabbiKnife on November 15, 2021, 11:02:17 AM
Again the spirit ('breath, wind') of God and Christ.
NOT a Third Spirit Being!

No, the Holy Spirit is a person, not just a breath or wind or impersonal force.

1,  Holy Spirit teaches :  John 14:26, 1 COrinthians 2:13
2.  Holy Spirit speaks:  Acts 8:29, Acts 13:2
3.  Holy SPirit makes decisions:  Acts 15:28
4.  Holy Spirit can be hurt: Ephesians 4:30
5. Holy SPirit can be angry:  Hebrews 10:39
6.  Holy Spirit can be lied to:  Acts 5:3-4
7.  Holy Spirit can stop human actions:  Acts 16:6-7
8.  Holy Spirit searches even God the Father's thoughts:  1 Corinthians 2: 10-11
9.  Holy Spirit gives gifts.  1 Corinthians 12:11
10.  Holy Spirit has a mind and thinks.  Romans 8:26-27

Clearly, these are the actions of a sentient being, not the inanimate actions of an inanimate force.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 15, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
I'm all ears- one point at a time please!
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 15, 2021, 11:07:19 AM
Athanasius, could you help RK no what the gender is for 'holy spirit' and why its so important...

And since RK won't take to discuss those those verses one at a time- I'll ignore it...
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 15, 2021, 11:12:05 AM
Athanasius, could you help RK no what the gender is for 'holy spirit' and why its so important...

RK knows Greek too, and we both know how grammatical gender operates. Would you also suggest that men don't sin because 'sin' is feminine, or that only men are sinners because 'sinner' is masculine? Maybe what you mean to say is that the Holy Spirit isn't an 'it' but a 'she' because  'ruach' is feminine in the Hebrew?

Or maybe, grammatical gender doesn't correlate to a thing as it exists.

And since RK won't take to discuss those those verses one at a time- I'll ignore it...

Yeah, but you were going to ignore it anyway.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RabbiKnife on November 15, 2021, 11:16:45 AM
Oh, a party game!  I love games.

So, here's the first one.  Binary answers only.

"For five points, does the Holy Spirit TEACH"?

Ten seconds, everyone. 
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 15, 2021, 11:19:43 AM
I somehow knew that I couldn't count on you to support a point, but divert!
Play them with RK.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 15, 2021, 11:28:57 AM
I somehow knew that I couldn't count on you to support a point, but divert!
Play them with RK.

I'm one to disappoint, trust me. So why do you whisk away the grammatical point when clearly it demands an answer from you?
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 15, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
I've told you I don't understand Greek.
Now, will you answer me as far as what your God-Ghost was doing up Job's nose?
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RabbiKnife on November 15, 2021, 01:32:25 PM
Only a 2nd grader would argue with a teacher about a subject that the 2nd grader knows nothing about.

You've already received a cogent response to Holy Spirit up Job's nose, Horshack.

You just don't like the answer.

If you refuse to engage in a meaningful way, then there isn't much to talk about.

You spout bad translations or bad understandings of the original texts, then claim that the original text references are church tricks.

Sort of like "for a short fat ugly girl, you're pretty cute."  Sounds snappy, but doesn't satisfy.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 15, 2021, 01:44:43 PM
I've told you I don't understand Greek.

Odd, then, to denigrate others over what you yourself don't understand.

Now, will you answer me as far as what your God-Ghost was doing up Job's nose?

Sure, as RK noted, you're committing an anachronism and fundamentally confusing the Holy Spirit with the breath of life. If you disagree, you're more than free to provide an argument identifying the two as in fact the same thing.

As you're well aware, suggesting that I think '[my] God-Ghost' was up Job's nose, and then asking for an explanation is the wrong way to go about it. But that's what one might expect of another who's looking to argue rather than dialogue.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 16, 2021, 07:11:00 AM
Just like a Clergyman...
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RabbiKnife on November 16, 2021, 09:10:38 AM
Well, I guess that settles it, right?

Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 16, 2021, 09:13:20 AM
Yes, it does.
Clergy Dogma instead of the Bible.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RabbiKnife on November 16, 2021, 09:28:31 AM
I have no idea what "Clergy Dogma" is.

Is that the same thing as Watchtower Dogma?
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 16, 2021, 09:36:42 AM
Just like a Clergyman...

Oh no, you've found me out! Except I'm not part of the clergy at the moment, and I don't think they'd want me back either.

I feel like with this obsession over ghosts you have, that you might enjoy the band 'Ghost', who are about as theologically on point as the JWs are... just from the opposite direction.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 16, 2021, 09:43:32 AM
Holy "GHOST" is what some of your Bibles READ?
Why are you 2 ignoring the FACTS?

You BOTH know why they mistranslated it.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 16, 2021, 09:47:55 AM
Holy "GHOST" is what some of your Bibles READ?
Why are you 2 ignoring the FACTS?

You BOTH know why they mistranslated it.

It wasn't a mistranslation, but merely appropriate for the period it was written in (actually, the language was probably a bit outdated by then too). Language evolves.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 16, 2021, 09:53:49 AM
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha!

A holy "GHOST"!

Even major churches are shying away from that label! Because it is a MISTRANSLATION!

Unless you believe in ghosts to!
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 16, 2021, 10:02:42 AM
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha!

A holy "GHOST"!

Even major churches are shying away from that label! Because it is a MISTRANSLATION!

Unless you believe in ghosts to!

Wait, are you confusing an explanation for why the word 'ghost' was used with the adoption of the word in the present day, despite the explanation making it clear that there are better translations given the change in language from then until now?

You're an odd little fellow. How does the song go, "if you have ghosts you have everything?" Clearly.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 16, 2021, 10:14:51 AM
BOO!
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 16, 2021, 10:43:09 AM
BOO!

It's a good listen ("If you have ghosts").
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RandyPNW on November 16, 2021, 02:52:46 PM
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha!

A holy "GHOST"!

Even major churches are shying away from that label! Because it is a MISTRANSLATION!

Unless you believe in ghosts to!

That's not correct. "Ghost" is not a mistranslation. If you don't understand the explanation, don't go on using your talking points.

Even more, try not laughing so much. It doesn't come across either as genuine or as respectable. If your arguments against the Trinity is nothing more than mockery, then you are giving your religion a bad name.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 16, 2021, 05:15:23 PM
Most churchoids have no REAL love for God and Christ- and despise the Truth.
My favorite Prophet (aside from Christ) sure made fun of that~

1 Kings 18:27- About noontime Elijah began mocking them.�You�ll have to shout louder,�
he scoffed, "for surely he is God! Perhaps he is daydreaming, or is relieving himself ("or using the toilet" - CEV),
or maybe he is away on a trip, or is asleep and needs to be wakened!
28- So they shouted louder, and following their normal custom, they cut themselves with knives and swords until the blood gushed out.

[Antichrists in CHURCHianity turn a Loving God into 3 Sadistic Beings, teach Satan's Lie (that we never die),
ignoring nearly every truth the Bible teaches, even teaching Jesus lied and NEVER died ('it was just his BODY') then run around 'praising' Jesus!]

It is sad, comical- and sick, all at the same time! Tragilarious.
So, if they want to blaspheme God and Christ, as well as ridicule us for our efforts to obey the King, fine!
Mocking, too, has its place!
Jesus mocked the 'hellfire' dogma that the Pharisees were starting to embrace.
He often compared the Jewish clergy to painted tombstones- pretty on the outside with everything foul underneath.
He compared them to poisonous snakes, and said theirn father was the Devil- and so much MORE!

Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RabbiKnife on November 16, 2021, 07:09:18 PM
No orthodox Christian supports any position that says “Jesus did not die”

Jesus was graveyard dead
Actually buried in one
And the Holy Spirit in concert with God the Father raised Jesus body from the dead
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: RandyPNW on November 16, 2021, 08:03:06 PM
Most churchoids have no REAL love for God and Christ- and despise the Truth.
My favorite Prophet (aside from Christ) sure made fun of that~

1 Kings 18:27- About noontime Elijah began mocking them.�You�ll have to shout louder,�
he scoffed, "for surely he is God! Perhaps he is daydreaming, or is relieving himself ("or using the toilet" - CEV),
or maybe he is away on a trip, or is asleep and needs to be wakened!
28- So they shouted louder, and following their normal custom, they cut themselves with knives and swords until the blood gushed out.

[Antichrists in CHURCHianity turn a Loving God into 3 Sadistic Beings, teach Satan's Lie (that we never die),
ignoring nearly every truth the Bible teaches, even teaching Jesus lied and NEVER died ('it was just his BODY') then run around 'praising' Jesus!]

It is sad, comical- and sick, all at the same time! Tragilarious.
So, if they want to blaspheme God and Christ, as well as ridicule us for our efforts to obey the King, fine!
Mocking, too, has its place!
Jesus mocked the 'hellfire' dogma that the Pharisees were starting to embrace.
He often compared the Jewish clergy to painted tombstones- pretty on the outside with everything foul underneath.
He compared them to poisonous snakes, and said theirn father was the Devil- and so much MORE!

Yes, there's a place, I suppose, for "mocking." But overall, unless you show the fruits of God's love, you're a false teacher, unredeemed, unregenerated, unsaved. So from the true Christian's point of view, our arguments over doctrine is an attempt to *get you saved.* Then you'll be able to show a consistent godly behavior with proper motivations.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 17, 2021, 04:09:26 AM
Most churchoids have no REAL love for God and Christ- and despise the Truth.
My favorite Prophet (aside from Christ) sure made fun of that~

1 Kings 18:27- About noontime Elijah began mocking them.�You�ll have to shout louder,�
he scoffed, "for surely he is God! Perhaps he is daydreaming, or is relieving himself ("or using the toilet" - CEV),
or maybe he is away on a trip, or is asleep and needs to be wakened!
28- So they shouted louder, and following their normal custom, they cut themselves with knives and swords until the blood gushed out.

[Antichrists in CHURCHianity turn a Loving God into 3 Sadistic Beings, teach Satan's Lie (that we never die),
ignoring nearly every truth the Bible teaches, even teaching Jesus lied and NEVER died ('it was just his BODY') then run around 'praising' Jesus!]

It is sad, comical- and sick, all at the same time! Tragilarious.
So, if they want to blaspheme God and Christ, as well as ridicule us for our efforts to obey the King, fine!
Mocking, too, has its place!
Jesus mocked the 'hellfire' dogma that the Pharisees were starting to embrace.
He often compared the Jewish clergy to painted tombstones- pretty on the outside with everything foul underneath.
He compared them to poisonous snakes, and said theirn father was the Devil- and so much MORE!

Do you have anything of substance to contribute?
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 17, 2021, 07:12:15 AM
Hmmmm?
Of 'substance' must mean church dogma, since you reject scripture.

No, I don't.
I will await someone who DOES.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 17, 2021, 08:52:04 AM
Hmmmm?
Of 'substance' must mean church dogma, since you reject scripture.

No, I don't.
I will await someone who DOES.

It means, are you capable of making a point without degenerating into name-calling or gaslighting? Are you, Mr/Mrs/Mx MadJW? (Imagine becoming mad because one was inflammatory to begin with.)
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 17, 2021, 09:28:01 AM
I really like the Name!
Thanks for it!
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 17, 2021, 09:50:20 AM
I really like the Name!
Thanks for it!

Oh, which one? Mrs theMadJW? Everyone would be so lucky as to be a Mrs. Oh, maybe it's Miss? Although, it's not so much that you're "mad" as it is that you've come across petulantly. Miss PetulantJW? Yes, yes.
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 17, 2021, 09:53:08 AM
And further diversions.
Caused by the Unholy Ghost?
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 17, 2021, 10:43:14 AM
And further diversions.
Caused by the Unholy Ghost?

Who is that?
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 17, 2021, 10:49:48 AM
Heh!
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 17, 2021, 11:09:50 AM
Heh!

I'm being serious. Are you positing the existence of an 'unholy ghost', and if so, what would that look like? Who would it? he? proceed from?
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: theMadJW on November 17, 2021, 03:39:56 PM
I was jesting, in the spirit of the "Holy GHOST"!
Title: Re: Is the Holy Spirit a ... GHOST!
Post by: Athanasius on November 17, 2021, 03:59:11 PM
I was jesting, in the spirit of the "Holy GHOST"!

Enjoy the two weeks.