Habakkuk's End Time Word

[RabbiKnife]

Bible prophecy is clear, the Day is coming when the Lord Himself will Judge and punish Judah. Amos 2:4-5

This already happened 2500 years ago.

I concur.

[Oseas]

Bible prophecy is clear, the Day is coming when the Lord Himself will Judge and punish Judah. Amos 2:4-5

This already happened 2500 years ago.

I concur.

Daniel was captive in Babylon. And after GOD revealed to Daniel what would be after that event.

As was said above in the year 586 B.C. - Judah was conquered by Babylon - Jerusalem and First Temple destroyed; most Jews are exiled. Later, Babylon was conquered by Cyrus-550-539 B.C..and Cambises 530-522 B.C.,and Darius-522-486 B.C.

Captivity of Israel - 70 years ---> 586 B.C.- 70 = 516 B.C.

Esra 6:v.15CJB reveals : - 15 This house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, in the sixth year of the reign of Daryavesh(Darius) the king. (Darius reigned from year 522-486 B.C.) 522-6(end of the rebuild of the temple) = 516 B.C.

After the rebuild of the temple of Jerusalem, GOD revealed to Daniel, as follow:

Daniel 9:v.24KJV says: 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city:
to finish the transgression,
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And AFTER threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:


AGAIN: Year 586 B.C. - Judah was conquered by Babylon - Jerusalem and First Temple destroyed; most Jews are exiled.

Captivity of Israel -> 70 years ---> 586 B.C.- 70 = 516 B.C.

The Temple was finished on the third day of the month Adar, in the sixth year of the reign of Daryavesh(Darius) the king; Darius reigned from year 522-486 B.C.

522-6 (end of the rebuild of the temple, and also of the captivity) = 516 B.C.

The Lord revealed to Daniel:

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people...Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem,
unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks,
and threescore and two weeks: 
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (and have nothing). 

Until the week 69th the prophecy already fulfilled LITERALLY

[Fenris]

Captivity of Israel - 70 years ---> 586 B.C.- 70 = 516 B.C.

My comment was about Amos 2 and not Daniel. So I don't know why you're bringing this up . Anyway-

snip

Daniel 9:v.24KJV says: 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city:
to finish the transgression,
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

You're mangling the Hebrew here. Actually what you're saying doesn't make sense in any language. You don't count to 69 by saying "7 plus 62". What the text actually says is "...from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem... will be seven weeks, and for sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times"

There's that all important comma that separates the two parts of the verse as is completely logical. So our timeframe becomes thus: Daniel is exiled, and told that from his present time until the word to rebuild will be 7 "weeks" (49 years) (which is when Cyrus gives the word to rebuild Jerusalem in 538BC). From then, the city will be rebuilt for 62 weeks (434 years) "in troubled times" (which it was, since it was a client state for various empires that entire time. The end of that period coincides with the year 104BC (=538-434) which is when the last independent Jewish king ascends the throne in Judea, Alexander Yannai (Jannaeus).

And AFTER threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

You've mistranslated two words in this verse. First of all, the Hebrew word "Messiah" simply means "anointed." It's a poetic way of saying "king", as all kings were anointed upon ascending the throne at that time. For example in Isaiah 45, the text refers to Cyrus as "God's anointed". You can't take the word and translate it as "messiah" just because you like the connotation in some verse. Secondly, it doesn't say the anointed will be "cut off, but not for himself". It says "cut off, and be no more". This is basic Hebrew. Also be aware that the term "cut off" (in Hebrew, "Karet") almost always means spiritual excision, a punishment for very bad people. And by all accounts Alexander Yannai was a bad person.

Using the timeframe above, the verse becomes a warning and not a messianic prophecy. God is telling Daniel that the Jews have 490 years to shape up, because when Alexander Yannai, the "anointed" dies, the end of Jerusalem is a foregone conclusion. When he died, his wife held the throne and then passed it on to his two children, Hyrcanus and Aristobulus II. They could not agree on who would rule and so invited the Roman army in nearby Syria to decide. After that Judea was never free again, as the Roman legions never left.

Another way to look at things.

[Oseas]

Captivity of Israel - 70 years ---> 586 B.C.- 70 = 516 B.C.

My comment was about Amos 2 and not Daniel. So I don't know why you're bringing this up . Anyway-

snip

Daniel 9:v.24KJV says: 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city:
to finish the transgression,
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

You're mangling the Hebrew here. Actually what you're saying doesn't make sense in any language. You don't count to 69 by saying "7 plus 62". What the text actually says is "...from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem... will be seven weeks, and for sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times"

There's that all important comma that separates the two parts of the verse as is completely logical. So our timeframe becomes thus: Daniel is exiled, and told that from his present time until the word to rebuild will be 7 "weeks" (49 years) (which is when Cyrus gives the word to rebuild Jerusalem in 538BC). From then, the city will be rebuilt for 62 weeks (434 years) "in troubled times" (which it was, since it was a client state for various empires that entire time. The end of that period coincides with the year 104BC (=538-434) which is when the last independent Jewish king ascends the throne in Judea, Alexander Yannai (Jannaeus).

And AFTER threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

You've mistranslated two words in this verse. First of all, the Hebrew word "Messiah" simply means "anointed." It's a poetic way of saying "king", as all kings were anointed upon ascending the throne at that time. For example in Isaiah 45, the text refers to Cyrus as "God's anointed". You can't take the word and translate it as "messiah" just because you like the connotation in some verse. Secondly, it doesn't say the anointed will be "cut off, but not for himself". It says "cut off, and be no more". This is basic Hebrew. Also be aware that the term "cut off" (in Hebrew, "Karet") almost always means spiritual excision, a punishment for very bad people. And by all accounts Alexander Yannai was a bad person.

Using the timeframe above, the verse becomes a warning and not a messianic prophecy. God is telling Daniel that the Jews have 490 years to shape up, because when Alexander Yannai, the "anointed" dies, the end of Jerusalem is a foregone conclusion. When he died, his wife held the throne and then passed it on to his two children, Hyrcanus and Aristobulus II. They could not agree on who would rule and so invited the Roman army in nearby Syria to decide. After that Judea was never free again, as the Roman legions never left.

Another way to look at things.

In my post I commented until week 69th, and I highlighted that what was prophesied by Daniel LITERALLY fulfilled itself, which you commented giving two interpretations, it because is more linked with things written by storytellers, not by the Word of God. This shows us that we need to find the true interpretation which is the only interpretation that interests us, course. Which would be? Including the 70th week.

[Fenris]

In my post I commented until week 69th, and I highlighted that what was prophesied by Daniel LITERALLY fulfilled itself, which you commented giving two interpretations, it because is more linked with things written by storytellers, not by the Word of God. This shows us that we need to find the true interpretation which is the only interpretation that interests us, course. Which would be? Including the 70th week.

Um, I don't understand what you're saying here or how it pertains to what I said.

[RabbiKnife]

There’s a lot of that going around..

[Oseas]

In my post I commented until week 69th, and I highlighted that what was prophesied by Daniel LITERALLY fulfilled itself, which you commented giving two interpretations, it because is more linked with things written by storytellers, not by the Word of God. This shows us that we need to find the true interpretation which is the only interpretation that interests us, course. Which would be? Including the 70th week.

Um, I don't understand what you're saying here or how it pertains to what I said.

What I meant is that you give two interpretations, but the Truth is only one, and it is this one we need to search and find, the true interpretation according Daniel 9:v.24 to 27, as follow:

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Babylon entered in Israel in 586B.C, and destroyed Jerusalem include the Temple that was built by Solomon.

Captivity ended in 516 BC, after 70 years. 

Ho many years can we count by the expression of times to past cited as 7 weeks and 62 weeks. How many years can here be counted?

There’s a lot of that going around..

I agree. What is not true I would say it be tares.

[Fenris]

What I meant is that you give two interpretations

I am actually reading the chapter from the original Hebrew.

[Oseas]

What I meant is that you give two interpretations

I am actually reading the chapter from the original Hebrew.

Still better. Ho many years can we count by the expression of times to past cited as 7 weeks and 62 weeks. How many years can here be counted?

[Fenris]

Still better. Ho many years can we count by the expression of times to past cited as 7 weeks and 62 weeks. How many years can here be counted?

"...from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed king will be seven weeks, and for sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times"

See?

When you're talking to someone and you want to say the number 69, you say "69." You don't say "7+62". They're different parts of the sentence. Separated in English by a comma, and in Hebrew by cantillation marks (that actually form something like a semicolon) .

[Oseas]

Still better. Ho many years can we count by the expression of times to past cited as 7 weeks and 62 weeks. How many years can here be counted?

"...from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed king will be seven weeks, and for sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times"

See?

When you're talking to someone and you want to say the number 69, you say "69." You don't say "7+62". They're different parts of the sentence. Separated in English by a comma, and in Hebrew by cantillation marks (that actually form something like a semicolon) .

How many years does 70 weeks correspond to?

[Fenris]

How many years does 70 weeks correspond to?

490, beginning with Daniel's revelation in 586BC.

"...from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed king will be seven weeks, and for sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times"

[Oseas]

How many years does 70 weeks correspond to?

490, beginning with Daniel's revelation in 586BC.

"...from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed king will be seven weeks, and for sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times"

Daniel 9:v.24KJV: - GOD revealed to Daniel that 70 weeks (490 years) was determined upon His people, and upon the holy city for finishing :
(1) the transgression -
(2) to make an end of sins,
(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity,
(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness,
(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy,
(6) to anoint the most Holy.

By whom would GOD the Father perform these works listed above?

[Fenris]

Daniel 9:v.24KJV: - GOD revealed to Daniel that 70 weeks (490 years) was determined upon His people, and upon the holy city for finishing :
(1) the transgression -
(2) to make an end of sins,
(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity,
(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness,
(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy,
(6) to anoint the most Holy.

As I've already said (sigh), this could be a warning instead of a prophecy. From the year of Daniel's vision, they have 490 years to set things right. By 104 BC, Alexander Yannai will ascend the throne and things completely fall apart; the Romans end up occupying Judea, leading to the Jewish revolt, the destruction of the temple and a 2,000 year Jewish diaspora. This isn't speculation, it's historical fact.

[RabbiKnife]

That interpretation would be consistent with either a preterist or partial preterist view from a Christian perspective as well.