Eternal Torment vs Annihilation

[Slug1]

Eternal torment isn't the opposite of eternal life.

I'm referring to how you are saying the term describing how long life in heaven is = eternal, yet the same term concerning how long punishment apart from heaven is = not eternal.

You are taking a single word, with a single meaning and making it mean two opposing meanings so you can continue to stand on a theology.

Here is an example per Scripture:

Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Greek 166 is the same in revealing HOW LONG everlasting punishment is and eternal life is. However, you and only you, are saying that term has two opposing meanings. With punishment = NOT everlasting/eternal and with life = IS everlasting/eternal.

[journeyman]

I'm referring to how you are saying the term describing how long life in heaven is = eternal, yet the same term concerning how long punishment apart from heaven is = not eternal.

You are taking a single word, with a single meaning and making it mean two opposing meanings so you can continue to stand on a theology.

Here is an example per Scripture:

Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Greek 166 is the same in revealing HOW LONG everlasting punishment is and eternal life is. However, you and only you, are saying that term has two opposing meanings. With punishment = NOT everlasting/eternal and with life = IS everlasting/eternal.

The punishment for sin is death, which is eternal. Torment isn't eternsl.

[Slug1]

The punishment for sin is death, which is eternal. Torment isn't eternsl.

The punishment/death is experienced forever. What that experience is, is revealed as tormenting. We cannot change what scripture reveals because sometime doesn't fit one's personal image of God's nature.


Your theology and all you say, states that punishment is NOT forever and that it has an end.

[journeyman]

The punishment/death is experienced forever. What that experience is, is revealed as tormenting. We cannot change what scripture reveals because sometime doesn't fit one's personal image of God's nature.

Your theology and all you say, states that punishment is NOT forever and that it has an end.

Death isn't cast into the lake of fire to exist eternally. It's cast into the lake of fire so that it no longer exists.....eternally.

I'm not changing what scripture says. I'm changing the false teaching I was indoctrinated with for years.

[Slug1]

The punishment/death is experienced forever. What that experience is, is revealed as tormenting. We cannot change what scripture reveals because sometime doesn't fit one's personal image of God's nature.

Your theology and all you say, states that punishment is NOT forever and that it has an end.

Death isn't cast into the lake of fire to exist eternally. It's cast into the lake of fire so that it no longer exists.....eternally.

I'm not changing what scripture says. I'm changing the false teaching I was indoctrinated with for years.

How can you drop the "indoctrination" card when I've attempted to help you with the meaning of the Greek terms utilized by the writers when they were inspired by the Holy Spirit to reveal what God wants mankind to know, through His Word?

The use of terms/language shows you (teaches) that the punishment is experienced evermore. Man lives and has a choice to make, those who choose to believe, have life evermore. Those who choose NOT to believe, are punished evermore. The term used means "forever more" and the term is used for both life and punishment.

Again, to say that the term means evermore for life but not for punishment, is to change the meaning of the Scripture.

[journeyman]

How can you drop the "indoctrination" card when I've attempted to help you with the meaning of the Greek terms utilized by the writers when they were inspired by the Holy Spirit to reveal what God wants mankind to know, through His Word?

I'm just telling you how I was. I didn't ask God for counsel concerning church doctrine. I simply accepted it.

The use of terms/language shows you (teaches) that the punishment is experienced evermore. Man lives and has a choice to make, those who choose to believe, have life evermore. Those who choose NOT to believe, are punished evermore. The term used means "forever more" and the term is used for both life and punishment.

Again, to say that the term means evermore for life but not for punishment, is to change the meaning of the Scripture.

Having life extinguished will be permanent for the unrepentant. The fear of having ones sinful deeds exposed is an event which doesn't go on eternally,

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Mt.12:36

There won't be anywhere to hide. The unsaved will be naked before our Lord.

[Slug1]

There won't be anywhere to hide. The unsaved will be naked before our Lord.

Agreed, 100%. I'm talking about the punishment AFTER judgement.

[journeyman]

Agreed, 100%. I'm talking about the punishment AFTER judgement.

The punishment after the torment is the death of the body, soul and spirit.

[Slug1]

The punishment after the torment is the death of the body, soul and spirit.

Jesus says the punishment lasts forever. The point of Jesus emphasizing that the punishment lasts evermore is because He doesn't want people to experience everlasting torment of the punishment. Jesus' Gospel message that "He" spoke revealed a consequence for rejecting Him.

Your point rejects what Jesus is emphasizing as you emphasize that those separated from God, will NOT experience the torment of everlasting punishment. Your message of the gospel means there is NO consequence for rejecting Jesus. Your message only as "judgement" as part of your gospel but no punishment.

Need I start posting the Scriptures about "changing" the Gospel?

[journeyman]

Your message of the gospel means there is NO consequence for rejecting Jesus. Your message only as "judgement" as part of your gospel but no punishment.

I've heard this claim, but only from people who want to avoid death. And the gospel according to the justice of God has been bastardized by theologians.

[Slug1]

I've heard this claim, but only from people who want to avoid death. And the gospel according to the justice of God has been bastardized by theologians.

It is difficult to take your post seriously because your position teaches that "death" is avoided. Jesus says the punishment of "death" is torturous and experienced evermore.

[journeyman]

It is difficult to take your post seriously because your position teaches that "death" is avoided. Jesus says the punishment of "death" is torturous and experienced evermore.

God uses suffering to draw sinners to himself and our Lord Jesus came to put an end to death. Our merciful Lord has no purpose for unending torment.

Believers led by the Holy Spirit know that to allow torment solely for the purpose of torment is wrong.

[Slug1]

God uses suffering to draw sinners to himself and our Lord Jesus came to put an end to death. Our merciful Lord has no purpose for unending torment.

Yet, Jesus accounts for the unending torment suffered by those separated from Him following their judgement.

Believers led by the Holy Spirit know that to allow torment solely for the purpose of torment is wrong.

This is only your theology, again Jesus accounts for the truth... those judged as unbelievers will be separated from Him after their judgement and suffer torment evermore.

[journeyman]

Yet, Jesus accounts for the unending torment suffered by those separated from Him following their judgement.

This is only your theology, again Jesus accounts for the truth... those judged as unbelievers will be separated from Him after their judgement and suffer torment evermore.

Jesus taught how the unrepentant are tormented by exposure of their sins and having their existence ended at the judgement seat of Christ,

As the driving away of smoke Thou drivest away, As the melting of wax before fire, The wicked perish at the presence of God. Psa.68:2

the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire....2Thes.1:7-8

It's not difficult to see how our Lord is seen as an all consuming lake of fire to all evil.


 

[Slug1]

Jesus taught how the unrepentant are tormented by exposure of their sins and having their existence ended at the judgement seat of Christ,

As the driving away of smoke Thou drivest away, As the melting of wax before fire, The wicked perish at the presence of God. Psa.68:2

the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire....2Thes.1:7-8

This only addresses before judgement and at the judgement, you are not addressing AFTER the judgement.

It's not difficult to see how our Lord is seen as an all consuming lake of fire to all evil.

True, but again, this does not address what happens AFTER judgement.