The Next Prophesied Event

[agnostic]

Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3970.5 BC subtracted back from 586 BCE, from:
Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 7:6 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10       Our year 2314.5 BC

 Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18  Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE   He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4           
   Total years so far = 2000

I can see three serious problems

The first thing is somewhat minor, but it still sets your math off by at least two years (so 1998, not 2000). You only provide Noah's age for when the flood happens and how many years Arpachshad was born after the flood, instead of using the following the same method you used before and after this: counting the father's age when his son was born. As a result, you completely skip Shem. Genesis 5 says Noah was 500 when Shem was born. Genesis 11 says Shem was 100 when Arpachshad was born. Understandably, this math doesn't make sense if Arpachshad was born two years after the flood, but this is still what Genesis says.

The second thing, here is a spreadsheet formula using only the numbers you provided. Go ahead and copy it into a spreadsheet and see what the result is:

=sum(130+105+90+70+65+162+65+187+182+600+2+35+30+34+30+32+30+29+70+75).

The sum is 2023. Genesis doesn't say Abram lived in Haran for 23 years. It doesn't say he left Ur when he was 52. These are numbers nowhere found in Genesis, and would irrelevant anyway. Abram "went to Canaan" when he was 75, which would be year 2023. (Or, actually, 2021 if we don't conspicuously use a different counting method that lets us skip Shem altogether.) Why does Abram living in Haran for 23 years (never stated in Genesis) mean you can subtract 23 from the total? It shouldn't affect the sum at all.

But the third thing is the biggest problem. I pointed out, Luke 3 includes a generation between Arpachshad and Selah. A second man named Cainan, who is only found in the Septuagint. Meaning, the only book in the Bible that presents any sort of "timeline" between Jesus and the beginning of the world is following the Septuagint version of Genesis, which doesn't have Abram entering the land of Canaan until year 3257. Even if we follow the Masoretic version for the majority of the timeline, but we include the second Cainan, it adds 130 years to your timeline, making Abram enter Canaan in 2151.

Before I could accept the premise of your timeline, you would need to provide answers to five questions:

1. Why are you changing your counting method only when it comes to Shem?

2. Why are you including two numbers (23 and 52) for Abram that aren't actually found in Genesis?

3. Why are you subtracting 23 from your total?

4. Why are you not using the Septuagint version of Genesis when Luke 3 does?

5. Why are you excluding Cainan son of Arpachshad and father of Selah, when Luke 3 includes him, even if you prefer the Masoretic numbers over the Septuagint numbers for the other patriarchs?

[keraz]

Thanks for you well considered reply;

1/ Because the Flood is the pivot point, not the age of Shem.

2/ The age that Abraham actually went into Canaan and the time he spent in Haran, is not given. We get it from simple maths. We can ascertain Abrams age when he left Ur from when he was born; 1948 years since Adam, so he obeyed God at age 52, then he spent 23 years in Haran and was 75 when he entered Canaan.
1948 +52 = 2000 years since Adam.

3/ The 23 years Abram spent in Haran is irrelevant to the timeline.

4/ I use my Bible as Written.

5/ It seems that Cainan and Reu are both missing from the Genesis record. Whatever the reason for this, or if they never existed, is unresolvable and in my opinion; insignificant.

Your opposition to a timeline that proves how close we are to the graphically prophesied events of the end times, is understandable. It is mighty scary!
But to avoid the facts and to be clueless about what must happen, is even more scary.

[agnostic]

1. Switching the counting method for only one instance specifically to arrive at the desired result is convenient.

2. It's not "simple maths" when the 52 is coming from thin air. (I know there's a tradition in the Talmud, but we're not talking about the Talmud.) Where are you getting 52 and 23 from? Neither number is in Genesis.

3. Abram entered Canaan when he was 75. (Genesis 12:4, he went to Canaan when he was 75. Confirmed by Genesis 16:3, 16, which says he lived in Canaan for ten years when he impregnated Hagar, and the next year, when he was 86, she gave birth to Ishmael.) Even if Genesis did say Abram lived in Haran for 23 years, it doesn't explain why you're subtracting it from the timeline. He did not enter Canaan when he was 52, he entered when he was 75.

4. This is not a satisfying answer, it is an evasion. Your Bible as written, the gospel of Luke, says Jesus' genealogy includes Cainan between Arpachshad and Selah. Luke's Bible as written, the Septuagint, included Cainan between Arpachshad and Selah. Why are you using a version of Genesis that contradicts what the evangelist used?

5. Think of this from the perspective of people outside yourself. They see you excluding the second Cainan, arbitrarily cutting 23 years, and inexplicably switching counting methods for the flood... And then they look at the Bible and they see Luke includes Cainan, they don't find 52 or 23 years mentioned anywhere, and they see you skipping Shem.

From the outside perspective, you're obviously starting with the idea that 2000 years must be meaningful just because it's a nice, round number, and then making up the rules of interpretation as you go to arrive at your desired conclusion.

Between the 100% failure rate of previous prophetic interpretations, and the really sketchy, overly convenient hermeneutic you use, it's really compelling not to believe your predictions. It's nothing to do with how "scary" any of it is. It's the inherently flawed premise.

[keraz]

It is clear to me that you are a well schooled scholar of Theology. But are you really an agnostic?
I though; left school at age 15 and have never had any theological training.

1/ I switched nothing, I simply followed the Bible narrative.

2 & 3/ You make a wrong accusation; I said Abraham left Ur at age 52. I know this figure isn't Biblical, However it is logical and Abraham obeying God's command was a critical point in the Plan of the ages. 
          He and his family stayed in Haran for 23 years until Teruh died, at age 205; Genesis 11:32

4/ How can we resolve Bible anomalies?  My suggestion is that Moses skipped Cainan and Reu and gave the years from father to grandson on those two instances.

5/ Yes people like yourself grasp at straws to refute anything that contradicts their beliefs.

Numbers. Do you think that numbers have no meaning or significance to God?  If so you are very lonely.
The 7000 year Plan of God for His Creation, is a well known and is a viable scenario.

There was 4000 years from Adam to Jesus, now we are so close to the 600th year and then comes the Millennium reign of King Jesus.

[Fenris]

We're asking, why should your hermeneutic which has led you to make these predictions be trusted over every other hermeneutic that resulted in countless failed predictions?

Keraz always does this.

[agnostic]

Keraz always does this.

They make up the rules of interpretation as they go, or they say their predictions are completely legit and not going to fail without offering anything to stand out from all previous failed predictions?

[agnostic]

It is clear to me that you are a well schooled scholar of Theology. But are you really an agnostic?

Yes, I'm agnostic, and an ex-Christian. I have this displayed in my profile so others know where I'm coming from.

[Fenris]

Keraz always does this.

They make up the rules of interpretation as they go, or they say their predictions are completely legit and not going to fail without offering anything to stand out from all previous failed predictions?

A little from column "A" and a little from column "B".

I see it like this. The bible uses context. When a prophet relays God's word to a specific people at a specific time and place, and explicitly states it as such, then that is who the prophecy was meant for and that is what it means. It's not a free-for-all where any verse can mean anything. Yet that's exactly how many who claim "deeper understanding" will read it. And in the end it makes the bible meaningless, because any verse can mean anything you desire with a little imagination.

[Redeemed]

That sums it up neatly. Any interpretation/doctine has to line with with the whole of the Word of God. If it doesn't then it's just...yeah. What you wrote.

[keraz]

As  the whole Word of God, the Bible; is a very large Book, we have to carefully study it and come to properly supported conclusions.
My conclusions about what God has planned, written in many articles and using many scriptures, are rejected by those who have already decided what they want God to do for them.

The Prophets will be vindicated and those who have failed to properly read and understand all of what God has told us thru His prophets; will be covered in shame.

I stand by the timeline as given to us in the Bible.  The use of the known historical date of the Babylonian conquest of Judah, ties it to our current calendar. 
Expect dramatic events soon, as the Prophetic Word is fulfilled.

[Redeemed]

It seems to me that I asked you a very simple question which you ignored. Then again it's certainly possible that you missed it so I'll ask again: How does your timeline correlate with Matthew 24?

I haven't " already decided what they want God to do for them" in the least. I know that events will unfold just as Scripture says they will and, more importantly, I serve God not the other way around.

His will will be done and that's exactly what I want. It's your timeline I question simply because Jesus Himself stated that “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." AND Jesus also said  "So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

God's word doesn't contradict itself. Either no man nor angle nor anyone except for The Father knows when these things will happen or we've been given a timeline in Scripture that contradicts what The Son plainly told us.

It can't be both can it? If I've misunderstood something show me what and why please. None of us are perfect so we all make mistakes brother.   

[Fenris]

My conclusions about what God has planned, written in many articles and using many scriptures, are rejected by those who have already decided what they want God to do for them.

They're rejected by people who read the surrounding verses and realize that your conclusions are not based on what the bible says.

The Prophets will be vindicated and those who have failed to properly read and understand all of what God has told us thru His prophets; will be covered in shame.

That's not how prophecy works. It's not a riddle to be puzzled out. The main point of prophecy is to steer our behavior back to what God expects of us. Not for us to one-up each other based on who finds the most obscure possible meaning. Prophets were not fortune tellers, they delivered the word of God to the masses. Not to secretly inform only those who could "understand" them.

[keraz]

1/ It seems to me that I asked you a very simple question which you ignored. Then again it's certainly possible that you missed it so I'll ask again: How does your timeline correlate with Matthew 24?

2/ I haven't " already decided what they want God to do for them" in the least. I know that events will unfold just as Scripture says they will and, more importantly, I serve God not the other way around.

3/ His will will be done and that's exactly what I want. It's your timeline I question simply because Jesus Himself stated that “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." AND Jesus also said  "So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

1/ God's word doesn't contradict itself. Either no man nor angle nor anyone except for The Father knows when these things will happen or we've been given a timeline in Scripture that contradicts what The Son plainly told us.

It can't be both can it? If I've misunderstood something show me what and why please. None of us are perfect so we all make mistakes brother.

!/ We won't know the day or the hour... Matthew 24:36-37
Two things here; we can know the season, the approximate timing of the Day the Son of Man comes to change the world; the Sixth Seal disaster. and then at least 7 + years later; His Glorious Return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. 
There are two Days of the Lord; His terrible Day of fiery wrath, when He won't be seen, Habakkuk 3:4 and the Great Day of Almighty God, Revelation 16:14, when every eye will see Him. He will then reign as King over all the earth for the next 1000 years.

2/ Good for you, but many, many Christians have made that mistake and they fondly imagine they will be whisked outta here before ant testing or trials.

3/ All that we really can do is to stand firm in our faith and trust in Him for our protection.

4/ There is no contradictions in scripture, only misunderstandings!

[agnostic]

There are two Days of the Lord; His terrible Day of fiery wrath, when He won't be seen, Habakkuk 3:4

This is a pretty egregious misuse of that verse.

There's nothing "hidden" about what's happening in Habakkeuk 3. Verse 4 describes how the LORD's power was hidden in "his hand", but is now (contemporary to Habakkuk) shining out, impossible to miss, like a sunbeam.

The entire chapter is a poem that depicts the undeniable, visible arrival of the LORD with his war party to battle his enemies.

[keraz]

They're rejected by people who read the surrounding verses and realize that your conclusions are not based on what the bible says.

That's not how prophecy works. It's not a riddle to be puzzled out. The main point of prophecy is to steer our behavior back to what God expects of us. Not for us to one-up each other based on who finds the most obscure possible meaning. Prophets were not fortune tellers, they delivered the word of God to the masses. Not to secretly inform only those who could "understand" them.

I have yet to see any proof that I am wrong in my use of the Prophetic Word.  Preterist and Spiritualization ideas are false, most prophesies remain to be literally fulfilled.
There IS coming a sudden and shocking Day when the world will be changed and all the rest of Revelation from Chapter 7, will take place.

Jeremiah 6:10 To whom shall I speak, to whom give the warning? The people are incapable of listening, for they treat the Lord's Word as a reproach.