A banned voice

[HappyServant]

The OP texts in oblique terms. This being a Bible forum, cite the scriptures you refer to and offer your point from there.

I write as best I can, which means I try to be concise.

To summarize a position requires the omission of details, which is why I put forth all I did, making available all manner of points upon which any might contend.

Quote the Scriptures you would use against me and let's discuss them.

Or, you know, make a counter-point. To anything. Please.

[IMINXTC]

Ban candy!

[HappyServant]

Ban candy!

Although I might agree on the merit of the potential benefits to the population that is large, I do not, in general, support blanket bans or other detractors from the expectations of personal responsibility.

[Fenris]

Although that could be insinuated, that would not be a fair assessment of my claim.

I only say I am His and that I speak truth.

But the only evidence that you speak "truth" is your own testimony. What if I'm speaking truth? That's my testimony.

I do propound that there are some really basic doctrinal errors in need of correction, but most people get angry at the idea they could be wrong on such a deep level (down to their very spirit, even).

Which doctrinal errors?

But now I can say that God is one and singular all day and most people aren't even going to take the time to actually consider the words I say.

Well you do come off as a bit pompous, actually.

[Fenris]

Ban candy!

Some people just want to take all the fun out of life.

[Fenris]

Quote the Scriptures you would use against me and let's discuss them.

Dude. You haven't cited any scripture in your own favor.

[HappyServant]

But the only evidence that you speak "truth" is your own testimony. What if I'm speaking truth? That's my testimony.

Well that's why I'm here, in a church forum, to talk about faith. Mostly just because I'm so thrilled to be alive, I don't really have a plan here.

Which doctrinal errors? 

That one is actually three and that God burns people, primarily. Those aren't true. There are a whole bunch of others but those would be the ones to which I would point first per your request.

Forgive me, you probably know the reference, but I'll point to that one where God says "Hear O Israel! The LORD your God is one!"

And there's that other one where He says He "saves to the uttermost."

So my stance is that I believe God and that my understanding of His metaphors and allegories makes sense to me. Therefore it could be said I'm here in part as a validation check, as I habitually verify my integrity, and it is now an enjoyable process which seems to benefit from this very manner of debate.

Well you do come off as a bit pompous, actually.

Not much I can do about how people respond to the confidence that grows under the countenance of God.

[Fenris]

That one is actually three and that God burns people, primarily. Those aren't true. There are a whole bunch of others but those would be the ones to which I would point first per your request.

Forgive me, you probably know the reference, but I'll point to that one where God says "Hear O Israel! The LORD your God is one!"

I may have heard that once or twice. Yet God being a trinity is Christian dogma since Nicea. The year 325. Are you overturning that?

And there's that other one where He says He "saves to the uttermost."

So Hitler isn't in hell? What about the non Christians he murdered? Also not in hell?

So my stance is that I believe God and that my understanding of His metaphors and allegories makes sense to me. Therefore it could be said I'm here in part as a validation check, as I habitually verify my integrity, and it is now an enjoyable process which seems to benefit from this very manner of debate.

You're here to validate your own beliefs?

[HappyServant]

I may have heard that once or twice. Yet God being a trinity is Christian dogma since Nicea. The year 325. Are you overturning that?

Nothing is overturned, that dogma is not from God and is entirely irrational. It is the lack of an actual foundation which makes these doctrines incredibly weak to inquiry, as dishonesty just can't support a valid opinion.

So Hitler isn't in hell? What about the non Christians he murdered? Also not in hell?

Who might be where is irrelevant when the very notion of the nature of "everlasting condemnation" is what is being challenged. Hell is only desirable to those who hate someone enough to wish them to burn forever.

I have the supernatural power of forgiveness, which means I can forgive anyone, so I do, because God said to forgive!

Why keep hating?

You're here to validate your own beliefs?

What do you think it means to "test the spirits?"

[Fenris]

Nothing is overturned, that dogma is not from God and is entirely irrational. It is the lack of an actual foundation which makes these doctrines incredibly weak to inquiry, as dishonesty just can't support a valid opinion.

OK, so let's be clear about it: You're inventing your own religion.

Who might be where is irrelevant when the very notion of the nature of "everlasting condemnation" is what is being challenged. Hell is only desirable to those who hate someone enough to wish them to burn forever.

What if hell isn't forever? Just a really long time? Would that be better?

I have the supernatural power of forgiveness, which means I can forgive anyone, so I do, because God said to forgive!

You can only forgive wrongs that were done to you. What about wrongs that were done to other people? What if they don't want to forgive? What if the person who wronged them never asked for forgiveness? Doesn't even want forgiveness? Have you thought that through?

Why keep hating?

I don't have to "hate" someone to not forgive them. Some people are not worthy of forgiveness.

What do you think it means to "test the spirits?"

I have no idea.

[HappyServant]

OK, so let's be clear about it: You're inventing your own religion.

Invalidating the imitation with authenticity is more like it.

What if hell isn't forever? Just a really long time? Would that be better?

What is the very best? What is the highest? What is the holiest?

Keep looking that direction and you might see what is better.

But so long as someone longs to see an enemy so horrifically punished, the Spirit is not with them.

You can only forgive wrongs that were done to you. What about wrongs that were done to other people? What if they don't want to forgive? What if the person who wronged them never asked for forgiveness? Doesn't even want forgiveness? Have you thought that through?

I wouldn't try forgiving on behalf of another. Whether someone desires my forgiveness has no bearing on my duty and ability to apply the power given to me.

My forgiveness of another is primarily to support my relationship with my Savior; the benefit to witnessing expressions of this power is the opportunity for belief.

I don't have to "hate" someone to not forgive them. Some people are not worthy of forgiveness.

There's a parable about those who want forgiveness. Something about what happens if you get but don't give, as I recall it.

I have no idea.

Watch me, then.

[Fenris]

Invalidating the imitation with authenticity is more like it.

The authenticity that you and you alone possess. That's creating your own religion.

But so long as someone longs to see an enemy so horrifically punished, the Spirit is not with them.

So nobody deserves punishment? Ever? Hitler started a war that killed 50 million people. He committed genocide. Surely he deserves some punishment?

There's a parable about those who want forgiveness. Something about what happens if you get but don't give, as I recall it.

I'm aware of the parable. I'm also capable of distinguishing between small wrongs and great wrongs. Presumably God is, too.

Watch me, then.

I am. Thus far rather unimpressed.

[HappyServant]

The authenticity that you and you alone possess. That's creating your own religion.

I created nothing. I am the created in service of the Creator, and I am pleased to associate myself with Him, regardless of what anyone might say.

So, say what you want, but you words are empty accusations as you haven't really contested anything directly.

So nobody deserves punishment? Ever? Hitler started a war that killed 50 million people. He committed genocide. Surely he deserves some punishment?

Who said anything of what is deserved? Distractions, distractions.

Hell doesn't exist. Do you really think it's either eternal torment or a free pass for everyone?

These are particulars of detail that cannot be addressed while the fundamental irrationality continues to be dodged, which is that one cannot reconcile the greatness of God depicted in Scriptures with a literal interpretation of everlasting fire and undying worms.

I'm aware of the parable. I'm also capable of distinguishing between small wrongs and great wrongs. Presumably God is, too.

Then how are you defending irrational math and hatred?

I am. Thus far rather unimpressed.

Good!

I would be doing something wrong if I impressed you.

[Fenris]

I created nothing. I am the created in service of the Creator, and I am pleased to associate myself with Him, regardless of what anyone might say.

You sound like partners.

So, say what you want, but you words are empty accusations as you haven't really contested anything directly.

Uhm yeah, I have. I'm questioning by what authority you overturn established Christian dogma. And you haven't addressed that.

Who said anything of what is deserved? Distractions, distractions.

I don't feel that people have to answer for the choices that they made in life is a "distraction". Particularly when those choices resulted in human suffering. But in your new religion I guess you get to hand wave it all away.

Hell doesn't exist. Do you really think it's either eternal torment or a free pass for everyone?

I think that God is the ultimate Judge, and He gives people what they have earned by their actions on this world.

What do you believe? What does your new religion teach?

These are particulars of detail that cannot be addressed while the fundamental irrationality continues to be dodged

"I don't have an answer for this question today, but if you join my new religion maybe I'll give you an answer in the future. Perhaps."

Then how are you defending irrational math and hatred?

I don't understand the math reference, nor this association between choosing to not forgive and "hatred".

I would be doing something wrong if I impressed you.

You seem very impressed with yourself however.

[HappyServant]

You sound like partners.

What a marvelous observation, thank you!

Uhm yeah, I have. I'm questioning by what authority you overturn established Christian dogma. And you haven't addressed that.

I claim no authority, and don't need any against something which has no authority but the backing of the disobedient.

How can I address irrationality when we can't even agree on the meaning of a number?

Plenty of precedent for added word meaning is established, for instance Jesus plainly calling John (the baptist) Elijah.

No precedent exists to support mystery math. John can be Elijah, by the words of Jesus, but one is always one and three is always three; these are immutable quantities.

I don't feel that people have to answer for the choices that they made in life is a "distraction". Particularly when those choices resulted in human suffering. But in your new religion I guess you get to hand wave it all away.

The distraction is provided by you in this aversion to the original matter in question; the presumed reality of everlasting torment.

I think that God is the ultimate Judge, and He gives people what they have earned by their actions on this world.

I agree!

What do you believe? What does your new religion teach?

I believe the truth stands alone, that it always makes sense, always lines up, can withstand any valid line of inquiry, and is inarguably superior to all falsehood by virtue of the clarity of reason inherent to the Source.

This is backed further by the complete alignment of all Scripture with the intent and purpose of God; which is the glorification of His name.

"I don't have an answer for this question today, but if you join my new religion maybe I'll give you an answer in the future. Perhaps."

Well if you go to a Lexus dealer and get mad that you can't find a Volvo, who's at fault?

I don't understand the math reference, nor this association between choosing to not forgive and "hatred".

Three is not one. One is not three.

How can you reconcile unforgiveness with love? They are mutually exclusive.

You seem very impressed with yourself however.

You attempt to misdirect my reverence for God; all glory is His, and all I am and do is for Him.

Or how do you think it looks to serve God in truth and sincerity?