Blessed Are The Barren...

[davy]

I want to share a metaphor given in God's Word that requires patience in The Scriptures in order to understand. It is a very important metaphor about the end times. And it requires connecting various Bible Scriptures that are involved, in both The Old Testament and The New Testament. Because of this, it's not something that most Churches take the time to reveal to their congregations, which is kind of sad I think, because it is a very important metaphor involving true vs. false worship at the end of this world.

2 Cor 11:1-4
11 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one Husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
KJV

Apostle Paul asks those Corinthians to bear with his folly for a moment, as he is giving a metaphor using the idea of remaining spiritually chaste waiting for Christ to come vs. not remaining chaste, and instead found spiritually as a what? I'm not afraid to say it, because GOD Himself said it, a Harlot; that's what Paul is pointing to for those who do NOT remain spiritually chaste waiting on Jesus to return.

Not only that, but Apostle Paul there also brings up the main reason at the end that will cause many NOT to remain a 'chaste virgin' waiting on our True Husband Jesus Christ. Paul mentions those who instead preach the "another Jesus"!

Did you know brethren about the "another Jesus"? Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:23-26 warned us about the coming of that "another Jesus", but He called that coming false one a pseudo-Christ, or false-Messiah (pseudochristos per the Greek). Jesus warned that coming false-Messiah will work great signs and wonders, that IF it were possible (it ain't), that it would deceive even His very elect.

This is what Apostle Paul is actually warning also in that 2 Corinthians 11 Chapter. Later at 2 Cor.11:13-14 Paul evens says that Satan himself is "transformed" (disguised per the Greek) as an "angel of light", and his ministers as the "ministers of righteousness"! Paul even brings up the idea of how Satan as "that old serpent" beguiled Eve, linking the idea of deception by that "another Jesus" within this.

But where did Apostle Paul get that idea of presenting us as a "chaste virgin" spiritually to Christ, our True Husband?

(Continued...)

[davy]

(Continued...)

Turn with me to Isaiah 54.

God gives a metaphor here, which is where Apostle Paul was pulling from with the "chaste virgin" and Christ as our Husband idea. It requires close attention to the Scripture to grasp it's meaning...


Isa 54:1
1  Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

God in the above is comparing a woman whose womb is barren and without child, to a woman that is a married wife. Then He says that the barren woman has MORE children than the married wife! Does that make sense to you? It ought to be the other way around, shouldn't it, with the married wife having more children than the barren woman?

No, that does not make sense, not in the literal flesh sense it doesn't. But once we understand God is simply using those ideas as a metaphor involving spiritual worship, then it begins to make sense.

Recall Paul's "chaste virgin" idea, and Christ as our true Husband, meaning we are to remain faithful waiting on Jesus to come, and not fall away to another (i.e., to the "another Jesus", the Antichrist/false Messiah). Which one in that Isaiah 54:1 verse represents the "chaste virgin" idea? The barren woman whose womb never bare, and that did not travail with child, of course.


Isaiah 54:2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

The above is about the symbolic tent of God's future Kingdom in the holy lands having to be enlarged so as to include the believing Gentiles. So that is about Christ's Church made up of BOTH believing Israelites and believing Gentiles, as one body. THOSE... are the more children the desolate barren woman will have per Isaiah 54:1.

Isaiah 54:5
For thy Maker is thine Husband; the LORD of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.
KJV

There above... is where Paul got that idea of Christ being our symbolic Husband per 2 Cor.11.

Those in Christ at the end of this world, are to remain without child, as a "chaste virgin" betrothed to Christ Jesus, our true Husband, and not fall away to the "another Jesus" that the false apostles preach. What are those who do not remain a "chaste virgin", waiting on Jesus Christ? Those are represented by the married woman of Isaiah 54:1!

Why is one not married in that parable, and the other woman is married? Who is that married woman in the parable married to? We know the barren woman remains "a chaste virgin" waiting for Christ to come. And the married woman WILL be 'with child'.

I know, it sounds a bit convoluted. But our Heavenly Father gave this to get His point across about staying in Him vs. falling away to the devil. And He is simply using the idea of a betrothed virgin waiting on the Bridegroom (Jesus) vs. the married wife who does not wait, but instead is found already married and travailing with child, which is about the married wife having played the harlot and violated the betrothal.

And at Isaiah 54:10-13 God reveals this virgin vs. married metaphor is applied to Jerusalem also. Revelation 21 reveals the new Jerusalem as Christ's Bride at His future coming. In Revelation 18, the Babylon Harlot claims she sits a queen, and is no widow. That means she is married to a king, but which one, because Satan also is a 'king' over the bottomless pit per Revelation 9:11.

[Fenris]

The barren mother in Is. 54 is an obvious metaphor for Zion, that is to say, Jerusalem. It's a common theme that Isaiha uses. Some examples:

Is. 49: Yet the children of your bereavement will say in your hearing, ‘This place is too small for us; make room for us to live here.’  Then you will say in your heart, ‘Who has begotten these for me? I was bereaved and barren; I was exiled and rejected. So who has reared them? Look, I was left all alone, so where did they come from?’”

The whole chapter of Is. 62.

Is. 66 “Before she was in labor, she gave birth; before she was in pain, she delivered a boy.  Who has heard of such as this? Who has seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be delivered in an instant? Yet as soon as Zion was in labor, she gave birth to her children."

etc

[davy]

The barren mother in Is. 54 is an obvious metaphor for Zion, that is to say, Jerusalem. It's a common theme that Isaiha uses. Some examples:
....

Yes, the Isaiah 54:10-13 section in particular is about Jerusalem.

But the previous Isaiah 54:1-5 section is especially about the new Jerusalem regarding Christ's Church there in final, and is where Apostle Paul is quoting from in 2 Corinthians 11.

Isa 54:1-5
1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;

3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

5 For thy Maker is thine Husband; the LORD of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.
KJV


Some believe men's doctrines that when Jesus Christ comes to gather His Church, that He takes them to Heaven while the Jews are gathered back to the holy land. I do not hold to that tradition of men. And that is kind of what Zionism is about that some Jews believe, the idea that only the seed of Israel is gathered back to the holy land at Christ's coming.

That Isaiah 54:2-3 Scripture is about the believing seed of Israel inheriting the believing Gentiles, and both together make the desolate cities in the holy land inhabited. This is why Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 11:2 desired to present the Church as "a chaste virgin" to their Husband Jesus Christ. Paul was pulling those ideas from the Isaiah 54:1-5 Scripture.

[Fenris]

Yes, the Isaiah 54:10-13 section in particular is about Jerusalem.

But the previous Isaiah 54:1-5 section is especially about the new Jerusalem

So the metaphor switches in the middle of the chapter? I find this rather unconvincing.

Some believe men's doctrines that when Jesus Christ comes to gather His Church, that He takes them to Heaven while the Jews are gathered back to the holy land. I do not hold to that tradition of men.

why can't the bible mean what it says?

And that is kind of what Zionism is about that some Jews believe, the idea that only the seed of Israel is gathered back to the holy land at Christ's coming.

Zionism is the idea that the Jewish people deserve self determination, as other peoples do.  Since Jews don't believe in Jesus, it has nothing to do with "Christ's coming".

[davy]

(Continued... from my 2nd Post)

Lord Jesus when He was on His way to be crucified quoted that Isaiah 54 metaphor about the barren. He quoted it to the "daughters of Jerusalem" that were on the side weeping for Him as He went up to be crucified.

Luke 23:26-30
26 And as they led Him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.

27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.

28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'

30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us.'"
KJV


Lord Jesus said to those Jewish women weeping for Him that the day would come when they and their children, will say that...

"Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck."

Why and when... will those daughters and children of the Jews be saying that "Blessed are the barren..." from Isaiah 54:1?

It's because of the meaning of the heart of that metaphor which God gave in Isaiah 54:1, and that Apostle Paul pulled from in 2 Cor.11 about Christ's Church when gathered to Christ.

Who is Lord Jesus pointing to that will be saying that "Blessed are the barren..."? Deceived Jews in Jerusalem at the end when Jesus finally appears to them, and then realize they have been deceived. And thus they will appear in shame when Jesus appears, and will wish for the mountains to "Fall on us", and for the hills to "Cover us". Those are metaphors for shame.

Thus the deceived Jews in Jerusalem when Jesus comes, those "Daughters of Jerusalem" and their "children", will be saying that "Blessed are the barren..." metaphor about the Faithful in Christ that wait for His coming "as a chaste virgin". Jesus Christ is our True Husband, "thy Maker" and "Husband" of the Isaiah 54:5 Scripture.

And another important part of that Isaiah 54:1 metaphor which is quoted in The New Testament is the idea of 'travailing with child'. That's simply about the idea of a woman who is pregnant and in labor pangs. That is part of the Isaiah 54:1 metaphor, "thou that didst not travail with child". That metaphor is used throughout The Old Testament, especially in the Book of Jeremiah because of the king of Babylon coming upon Jerusalem to destroy back in Israel's history.

In 1 Thessalonians 5, Apostle Paul uses the "travail with child" metaphor about the deceived at the end of this world that will be claiming, "Peace and safety", but then in final "sudden destruction" will come upon them...

1 Thess 5:2-4
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child[/u]; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
KJV

That "day of the Lord" that will come "as a thief in the night" is the last day of this present world when Christ Jesus' 2nd coming to gather His saints will happen. On that same 'day', the deceived will be surprised and shocked when they see Jesus coming in the clouds, and thus their shame will be like a woman travailing with child. Paul is therefore using that travail with child idea as a symbol for the 'deceived' just prior to Christ's future return.

Lord Jesus in The Gospel of Matthew and of Luke also used a portion of that "thou that didst travail with child" idea from the Isaiah 54:1 "Blessed are the barre..." metaphor. He used about those "with child" for the coming time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world just prior to His return...

Matt 24:18-21
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV

Now it is very simple to interpret the above "... woe unto them that are with child" idea being literally about a pregnant woman struggling in that future time of the "great tribulation", not being able to prepare to be caught up by Christ, or escape the city. But child birth is a Blessing per The LORD. So how is Lord Jesus using this "... woe unto them that are with child" at this point in time for the end? There's another example He gives in Luke 21 about the end...

Luke 21:22-23
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
KJV

Why will there be "... wrath upon this people" who are "with child"? Is that literally just about pregnant women in that time? And what timing exactly is that "days of vengeance, that all things are written may be fulfilled"? That "days of vengeance" is actually a reference to Jesus' future 2nd coming to gather His faithful Church on the last day of this world. (And yeah I know that some interpret this being about the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem because of the next 24th verse. But recall that Jesus' mention of not one stone atop another prophecy is a dual-fulfillment type prophecy, once as a partial-fulfillment for 70 A.D. by the Romans, and the second time as a complete-fulfillment on the day of Christ's future coming.)

At the middle of the Luke 21:24 verse, it mentions Jerusalem being trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled. That's a last days event, not a 70 A.D. event. It is pointing to our near future of Revelation 11:1-3 about the future Jewish 3rd temple in Jerusalem to be built for the coming "great tribulation", with the outer court left for the Gentiles, and they shall tread the city for 42 months (i.e., the 3.5 years, or 1260 days of the Book of Daniel about the last days "great tribulation".)

in reality then, that "wrath" upon those "with child" at the end just prior to Christ's future return, is being used as a warning, because Apostle Paul says in 1 Thess.5:9 that those in Christ are not appointed to God's wrath.

(Continued...)

[Fenris]

(Continued... from my 2nd Post)

Lord Jesus when He was on His way to be crucified quoted that Isaiah 54 metaphor about the barren.

You lost me. Just because he mentions the barren doesn't mean he's quoting Is. 54. And verse 30 is from Hosea 10.

Deceived Jews

What, this again? LOL.

 

[davy]

So the metaphor switches in the middle of the chapter? I find this rather unconvincing.

God's Word, especially in the Old Testament Books of the prophets, often does that switch of topics. It's actually done in just about every Book of The Bible, so I'm surprised you are not aware of that fact. I'd also say that you have failed to spot how Jabez got added to the lineage of Judah given in 1 Chronicles 4:9-10 when no linage info is given there about him. Now that is... an abrupt change of subject that God did in His Word that sadly, some have a hard time figuring out why. (1 Chronicles 2:55 reveals why, but some don't understand about those scribes mentioned there either, nor their connection with the blind Pharisees that wanted Jesus executed).

Zionism is the idea that the Jewish people deserve self determination, as other peoples do.  Since Jews don't believe in Jesus, it has nothing to do with "Christ's coming".

Well, sorry to say, but that brand of Zionism is false, and is held by NON-believing Jews who still reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ.

But the false idea that Christ comes to gather His Church and takes them to Heaven, while the seed of Israel is gathered back to the holy land in final, is a belief of Dispentationalists that also hold to man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory. Thus there are Christian Churches which believe that, and therefore have no problem with the NON-believing Jews brand of Zionism. Some of those Christian Churches today even help... those NON-believing Jews with their future plans to build their 3rd temple in Jerusalem and startup Old Testamnent style worship again. I do not adhere to that at all, and I see that as an abomination.

The reason why I am detailing the "Blessed are the barren..." metaphor of Isaiah 54:1 is because of how The New Testament Scriptures uses it about those who will be deceived at the end, particularly un-believing Jews. For Jews today that believe on Lord Jesus as The Christ, they should actually be at the forefront of this type of warning from Scripture, for the sake of their deceived NON-believing Jews.

[davy]

You lost me. Just because he mentions the barren doesn't mean he's quoting Is. 54. And verse 30 is from Hosea 10.

Oh but yes Jesus is... quoting from Isaiah 54:1.

You're not one of those who deny relevant Bible Scripture in another Book that may not use the 'exact' same wording as the other Book, are you? Those who do that just are making excuses to not heed the Scripture.

Let's see...

Luke 23:29
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
KJV

Isa 54:1
54 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
KJV

Same idea, little bit different wording between the two verses.

[Fenris]

God's Word, especially in the Old Testament Books of the prophets, often does that switch of topics.

How do you know?

Wouldn't it make God's communication with man impossible?

"I'm sayin this right here, but in the next verse, even though I use the same exact word, it actually means something different. But you have to guess when I do that." 

the blind Pharisees

LOL this again?

Well, sorry to say, but that brand of Zionism is false,

It's Zionism. You may not like or agree with the concept, but that's what it it.

and is held by NON-believing Jews who still reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ.

Most Jews believe in God, so I'm not sure that using the term "non-believing" is exactly accurate.

But the false idea that Christ comes to gather His Church and takes them to Heaven, while the seed of Israel is gathered back to the holy land in final, is a belief of Dispentationalists that also hold to man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory. Thus there are Christian Churches which believe that, and therefore have no problem with the NON-believing Jews brand of Zionism. Some of those Christian Churches today even help... those NON-believing Jews with their future plans to build their 3rd temple in Jerusalem and startup Old Testamnent style worship again. I do not adhere to that at all, and I see that as an abomination.

You're going to have to take this up with them.

The reason why I am detailing the "Blessed are the barren..." metaphor of Isaiah 54:1

But the rest of the words don't fit the chapter, so I'm having difficulty seeing the connection.

is because of how The New Testament Scriptures uses it about those who will be deceived at the end, particularly un-believing Jews. For Jews today that believe on Lord Jesus as The Christ, they should actually be at the forefront of this type of warning from Scripture, for the sake of their deceived NON-believing Jews.

Nah, we're good.

[Fenris]

Oh but yes Jesus is... quoting from Isaiah 54:1.

You're not one of those who deny relevant Bible Scripture in another Book that may not use the 'exact' same wording as the other Book, are you? Those who do that just are making excuses to not heed the Scripture.

Let's see...

Luke 23:29
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
KJV

Isa 54:1
54 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
KJV

Same idea, little bit different wording between the two verses.

First you say it's the same exact wording, then you say it's different words but it means the same thing, when it clearly doesn't.

[Fenris]

Psalm 113 also mentions a barren woman. Maybe he's quoting that?

[davy]

Now for the punchline, so to speak, about the Woe to those with child warning for the end of this world during the coming "great tribulation".

When all the relevant Bible Scripture is put together that I covered in my above posts, then a major question should come to mind about those who are found with child, and do not remain as "a chaste virgin", and thus represent the married wife when Jesus comes.

The Isaiah 54 metaphor is about the idea of a virgin bride who remains barren vs. the married wife who was betrothed to Jesus, but is found already married and with child when Jesus comes. That means the married wife played the Harlot.

And this Isaiah 54 metaphor is given about BOTH God's people, and the city of Jerusalem.

Per the Book of Revelation about the Babylon Harlot of Chapter 17, it reveals that Babylon Harlot is a "great city". And in Revelation 11:8 which reveals the "great city" is where our Lord was crucified, that is pointing directly to Jerusalem as that "great city" for the end of this world.

Thus in Revelation 18, the Babylon Harlot woman says she sits a queen, and is no widow. In the Book of Lamentations, after Jerusalem was destroyed by the king of Babylon in Israel's history, Jerusalem is then referred to as being a symbolic "widow". But in Revelation 18 for the end of this world, she claims she is no widow, meaning she is saying she is married.

So who... is she married to at the end? Who will Jerusalem at the end of this world prior to Christ's return be married to? for she represents the married wife in the Isaiah 54 barren metaphor, as also those in Jerusalem who will be deceived during the coming "great tribulation".

 Do you recall Revelation 21 that speaks of new Jerusalem being Christ's Bride at His future coming? In Ezekiel 16 God revealed that He married Jerusalem, put His skirt over her, which is an Old Testament metaphor for marriage consumation. But then she played the harlot against Him.

So in reality, this Book of Revelation idea about the Babylon Harlot being the "great city" as Jerusalem for the end when IDOL worship will be setup there by the coming false-Messiah placing the "abomination of desolation" idol at a newly built Jewish stone temple in Jerusalem, it shouldn't be any wonder how that Ezekiel 16 chapter about Jerusalem playing the harlot in past history as being the harlot woman of the Book of Revelation for the end of this world, just prior to Christ's return.

[davy]

First you say it's the same exact wording, then you say it's different words but it means the same thing, when it clearly doesn't.

No, I never said it was the same exact wording. That's what you say.

It's the same SUBJECT AND IDEA. That is what the word 'relevant' means you know.

[Fenris]

It's the same SUBJECT AND IDEA. That is what the word 'relevant' means you know.

Psalm 113
1 Praise the Lord.

Praise the Lord, you his servants;
    praise the name of the Lord.
2 Let the name of the Lord be praised,
    both now and forevermore.
3 From the rising of the sun to the place where it sets,
    the name of the Lord is to be praised.

4 The Lord is exalted over all the nations,
    his glory above the heavens.
5 Who is like the Lord our God,
    the One who sits enthroned on high,
6 who stoops down to look
    on the heavens and the earth?

7 He raises the poor from the dust
    and lifts the needy from the ash heap;
8 he seats them with princes,
    with the princes of his people.
9 He settles the childless woman in her home
    as a happy mother of children.

Praise the Lord.