The Jews will be kept safe in the Great Tribulation

[RabbiKnife]

Did someone miss all of chapter 9-11 when Paul clearly says that Israel is not physical but spiritual?

[Billy Evmur]

Did someone miss all of chapter 9-11 when Paul clearly says that Israel is not physical but spiritual?

Did someone miss Paul when he said as concerning election God's gifts and calling are without repentance so all Israel will be saved.?

Tell me, when a church goes wrong and stray into false doctrine and even immorality, a thing not unknown in these days, are they still the church? Those Galatians who foolishly turned away from Paul's simple gospel, did they lose their salvation? Didn't Paul still address them as brethren?

[RabbiKnife]

Did someone miss all of chapter 9-11 when Paul clearly says that Israel is not physical but spiritual?

Did someone miss Paul when he said as concerning election God's gifts and calling are without repentance so all Israel will be saved.?

Tell me, when a church goes wrong and stray into false doctrine and even immorality, a thing not unknown in these days, are they still the church? Those Galatians who foolishly turned away from Paul's simple gospel, did they lose their salvation? Didn't Paul still address them as brethren?

Is your position that the members of the Sanhedrin who had Jesus put to death will be resurrected at the end and given one more chance and then they too will accept Jesus as messiah and be saved?

Yes, or no
Oui, ou non
Ja. nein
Da. Nyet.

[Billy Evmur]

Did someone miss all of chapter 9-11 when Paul clearly says that Israel is not physical but spiritual?

Did someone miss Paul when he said as concerning election God's gifts and calling are without repentance so all Israel will be saved.?

Tell me, when a church goes wrong and stray into false doctrine and even immorality, a thing not unknown in these days, are they still the church? Those Galatians who foolishly turned away from Paul's simple gospel, did they lose their salvation? Didn't Paul still address them as brethren?

Is your position that the members of the Sanhedrin who had Jesus put to death will be resurrected at the end and given one more chance and then they too will accept Jesus as messiah and be saved?

Yes, or no
Oui, ou non
Ja. nein
Da. Nyet.

We have to consider what Paul meant when he said "and so all Israel will be said" I do not believe he means every single Jew who ever lived for Jesus said to Judas "it were better for you if you had never been born"

But did you read when Jesus wept over Jerusalem when they rejected Him? "you will not see Me hence until ye say blessed is He who cometh in the name of the Lord"

Remember too what Peter said that they delivered up our Lord to be crucified by the predeterminate will of God ... YOU could not have been saved if the Jews had not rebelled. 

Speaking about the Sanhedrin they were the elite of Jewish society, the lickspittles utterly corrupt but the common people loved Him.

I certainly don't believe all Israel means that 2/3rd of the Jews will be slaughtered as some suppose.

[RabbiKnife]

So “all” doesn’t mean “all”?

What other words in the Bible do you decide do t mean what the plain literal meaning is? 

By what criteria do you make the determination that the words mean what you want them to mean?

[Billy Evmur]

So “all” doesn’t mean “all”?

What other words in the Bible do you decide do t mean what the plain literal meaning is? 

By what criteria do you make the determination that the words mean what you want them to mean?

Romans 11 vs 25-27
Lest you become wise in your own conceits I want you to know this mystery brethren, a hardening has come upon part of Israel until the full number of the Gentiles  come in and so all Israel will be saved as it is written
"The Deliverer will come from Zion. He will banish ungodliness from Jacob and this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins."

I do not believe "all Israel" means every single Jew. As with all scripture you have to weigh it with other scripture to get the meaning.

[RabbiKnife]

So then, it all depends on what you want it to say.

Check.

So when you insist on your particular eschatological interpretation, you mean that only the Jews alive at a given point in time will ALL come to accept Jesus, and to hell with the one's that weren't lucky enough to have been born and alive at that time.

Got it.

So THOSE Jews get a bonus. 

[Billy Evmur]

So then, it all depends on what you want it to say.

Check.

So when you insist on your particular eschatological interpretation, you mean that only the Jews alive at a given point in time will ALL come to accept Jesus, and to hell with the one's that weren't lucky enough to have been born and alive at that time.

Got it.

So THOSE Jews get a bonus.

You can play around as much as you like. The scripture says also that "though Israel were as many as the sand of the seashore yet only a remnant will be saved."

I do not believe only a few, a remnant will be saved. You have to weigh scripture against scripture to get the true meaning of scripture.

[RabbiKnife]

So then, it all depends on what you want it to say.

Check.

So when you insist on your particular eschatological interpretation, you mean that only the Jews alive at a given point in time will ALL come to accept Jesus, and to hell with the one's that weren't lucky enough to have been born and alive at that time.

Got it.

So THOSE Jews get a bonus.

You can play around as much as you like. The scripture says also that "though Israel were as many as the sand of the seashore yet only a remnant will be saved."

I do not believe only a few, a remnant will be saved. You have to weigh scripture against scripture to get the true meaning of scripture.

So which is it?

All?

Or a remnant?

I thought earlier you said "ALL."  Now you say something else?  And you disagree with the Word when it says "remnant."

How do you decide?

[Billy Evmur]

So then, it all depends on what you want it to say.

Check.

So when you insist on your particular eschatological interpretation, you mean that only the Jews alive at a given point in time will ALL come to accept Jesus, and to hell with the one's that weren't lucky enough to have been born and alive at that time.

Got it.

So THOSE Jews get a bonus.

You can play around as much as you like. The scripture says also that "though Israel were as many as the sand of the seashore yet only a remnant will be saved."

I do not believe only a few, a remnant will be saved. You have to weigh scripture against scripture to get the true meaning of scripture.

So which is it?

All?

Or a remnant?

I thought earlier you said "ALL."  Now you say something else?  And you disagree with the Word when it says "remnant."

How do you decide?

You have to read both scriptures in the context of which they were given.

I would love to believe that every single Jew will be saved but it cannot be so for Jesus said to Judas "it were better for you if you had never been born"

You have to consider the purpose of "remnant" they were those who clung to the Lord during a time of great apostacy. Their job was to keep the faith of Jehovah God alive.  In God's time they were instrumental in the reign of Jehu in turning the hearts and minds of Israel
back to God.

[RabbiKnife]

So you either don’t know or won’t say…


How does this lack of certainty play in your rigid eschatology?

[Billy Evmur]

So you either don’t know or won’t say…


How does this lack of certainty play in your rigid eschatology?

Hey, I bin saved 48 years, I've scarcely heard 2 Christians who have the same beliefs regarding eschatology.

One thing they all seem to agree upon is that them Jews are sure gunna cop it again once things get started.

I never heard anybody who believes what I believe, that it is the church who must go through the Great Tribulation while the Jews for the most part will be kept safe ... more I believe Israel must expand, must become a super power. How else can they stay safe while Antichrist is doing his darnedest to stamp out all religion?

At sometime Ac will renege on the the pact he has with Israel and he will invade and storm Jerusalem, there will be a little skirmish there. But then the Lord will return and He will destroy Ac and all the armies of the nations who came with him.

THAT is when Israel will be converted, when they look upon Him whom they have pierced and Zech says God will pour upon the WHOLE nation a spirit of compassion and supplication and as a whole nation the men separated from the women will pray.

That is how I understand Paul's statement "so all Israel will be saved"

[Billy Evmur]

Oh I thought the Great Tribulation, the Jews are really going to get it, after all isn't it called the time of Jacob's trouble?

But what does the bible say?

Jeremiah 30.4-11
These are the words which the Lord spoke concerning Israel and Judah
thus says the Lord
we have heard a cry of panic, of terror and no peace.
Ask now and see, can a man bear a child?
why then do I see every man with his hands on his loins like a woman in labour? why is every face turned pale?

Alas for that day is so great, there is no day like it, it is even the day of Jacob's trouble but he shall be saved out of it

And it shall come to pass in that day says the Lord of hosts that I will break the yoke from off their neck and I will burst the bonds and strangers shall no more make servants of them. But they shall serve the Lord their God and David their King whom I will raise up for them.

Therefore FEAR NOT O JACOB My servant says the Lord
NOR BE DISMAYED O ISRAEL for lo I will save you from afar and your offspring from the land of your captivity.

Jacob shall return and have quiet and ease and none shall make him afraid. For I am with you to SAVE YOU says the Lord.
I will make a full end of all the nations among whom I have scattered you but of you I will not make a full end. I will chasten you in measure and I will by no means leave you unpunished.

You see it is the woman who travails, the spouse, the church ... the man, Israel is God's firstborn son, does not travail.