Was the Father's will always subordinate to the Son's will?

[Betho]

Matthew 26:42-43 King James Version

He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.

The scene underscores Jesus' submission to the Father's will and his redemptive sacrifice. This event is central to Christian theology, representing Jesus' surrender into the hands of soldiers as part of the divine plan for humanity's redemption.

Matthew 26:53 King James Version

Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

This passage seems to suggest that, in stating that He could summon angels through prayer to the Father, Jesus was highlighting His authority over circumstances, including the Father's already established will. This prayer would represent a channel to express, if necessary, the adjustment of the Son's will in line with the already established redemptive plan, disregarding the Father's will.

In summary, does the fact that Jesus changes the will of the Father make Him coequal to Him?

[RabbiKnife]

Jesus did not change the Fathers will

Jesus is co-equal with the Father and co-equal with the Spirit in essence and nature, regardless of whom of the three are submitting the the other at the time.

[Sojourner]

Jesus had neither the desire nor inclination to oppose God's will, but is simply demonstrating that the sacrifice of His flesh and blood was voluntary. As He Himself said, He had the power to lay down His life and the power to take it back up again. (John 10:17-18)

[CrimsonTide21]

Matthew 26:42-43 King James Version

He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.

The scene underscores Jesus' submission to the Father's will and his redemptive sacrifice. This event is central to Christian theology, representing Jesus' surrender into the hands of soldiers as part of the divine plan for humanity's redemption.

Matthew 26:53 King James Version

Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

This passage seems to suggest that, in stating that He could summon angels through prayer to the Father, Jesus was highlighting His authority over circumstances, including the Father's already established will. This prayer would represent a channel to express, if necessary, the adjustment of the Son's will in line with the already established redemptive plan, disregarding the Father's will.

In summary, does the fact that Jesus changes the will of the Father make Him coequal to Him?

50 Jesus replied, “Do what you came for, friend.”[d]

Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

Jesus is talking to one of his disciples and making a rather obvious point regarding the absurdity of trying to thwart His purpose by using a sword.

[Mr.E]

When I read this title, I was sure the person who wrote it meant to say, Was the Son's will always subordinate to the Father's will.

That makes sense, but the answer can be known by intuition. Before the Trinity decided to create the universe and all the people, the Godhead was all co-equal. There was no subordination among the Members of the Trinity.

[shepherdsword]

When I read this title, I was sure the person who wrote it meant to say, Was the Son's will always subordinate to the Father's will.

Yeah, I thought so too

That makes sense, but the answer can be known by intuition. Before the Trinity decided to create the universe and all the people, the Godhead was all co-equal. There was no subordination among the Members of the Trinity.

My position as well. Their respective positions are only a result of their roles in creation and redemption

[RabbiKnife]

The are still not subordinate

[shepherdsword]

The are still not subordinate

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying Jesus is not in submission to the Father's will?

[Athanasius]

The are still not subordinate

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying Jesus is not in submission to the Father's will?

How are you distinguishing between ontic and economic "submission"?

[shepherdsword]

The are still not subordinate

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying Jesus is not in submission to the Father's will?

How are you distinguishing between ontic and economic "submission"?

I am talking about this:
1 Co 15:24-28
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

[Athanasius]

The are still not subordinate

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying Jesus is not in submission to the Father's will?

How are you distinguishing between ontic and economic "submission"?

I am talking about this:
1 Co 15:24-28
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

That's why I asked my question.

[shepherdsword]

The are still not subordinate

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying Jesus is not in submission to the Father's will?

How are you distinguishing between ontic and economic "submission"?

I am talking about this:
1 Co 15:24-28
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
[/
I am not sure how you would classifyquote]

That's why I asked my question.

Neither....it's total. as in every respect.

[Athanasius]

The are still not subordinate

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying Jesus is not in submission to the Father's will?

How are you distinguishing between ontic and economic "submission"?

I am talking about this:
1 Co 15:24-28
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
[/
I am not sure how you would classifyquote]

That's why I asked my question.

Neither....it's total. as in every respect.

That's a both, not a neither. Your view is really that the Son, the Second Person of the Godhead, becomes subordinated to the Father both ontically, i.e. concerning nature/being/substance, and economically, i.e. concerning those things that God does?

[shepherdsword]

The are still not subordinate

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying Jesus is not in submission to the Father's will?

How are you distinguishing between ontic and economic "submission"?

I am talking about this:
1 Co 15:24-28
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
[/
I am not sure how you would classifyquote]

That's why I asked my question.

Neither....it's total. as in every respect.

That's a both, not a neither. Your view is really that the Son, the Second Person of the Godhead, becomes subordinated to the Father both ontically, i.e. concerning nature/being/substance, and economically, i.e. concerning those things that God does?

Only as in respect to creation and redemption. I believe any member of the trinity could have fulfilled the role of the father or son or holy spirit and in eternity past they were co equal. However, I don't pretend to fully comprehend the mystery of the trinity so I am not dogmatic about it's inner workings.
I sum it up like this:
The Father is YHVH
The Son is YHVH
The Holy Spirit is YHVH
These three are one (or "echad" as in unity of of plurity)

[Athanasius]

The are still not subordinate

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying Jesus is not in submission to the Father's will?

How are you distinguishing between ontic and economic "submission"?

I am talking about this:
1 Co 15:24-28
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
[/
I am not sure how you would classifyquote]

That's why I asked my question.

Neither....it's total. as in every respect.

That's a both, not a neither. Your view is really that the Son, the Second Person of the Godhead, becomes subordinated to the Father both ontically, i.e. concerning nature/being/substance, and economically, i.e. concerning those things that God does?

Only as in respect to creation and redemption. I believe any member of the trinity could have fulfilled the role of the father or son or holy spirit and in eternity past they were co equal. However, I don't pretend to fully comprehend the mystery of the trinity so I am not dogmatic about it's inner workings.
I sum it up like this:
The Father is YHVH
The Son is YHVH
The Holy Spirit is YHVH
These three are one (or "echad" as in unity of of plurity)

So economically, but not ontically?