Is free will a failed concept?

[Athanasius]

The doctrine of human freewill is the highest idolatry, it makes us co equal with God. God can do nothing unless we agree.

That's bullshit

In Suessian its bovinus excrementus.

Mr Milchick said it best, talking about feculence as he did to Mr Drummond.

I thought about just writing "BS", but I figure that level of making things up gets the full treatment.

[IMINXTC]

When, as a toddler, I first learned of God, I became enraged and wanted nothing to do with the Creator. The thought of being destined to meet Him, let alone the notion of being accountable to Him tortured me, and I wrestled night and day.

I've since learned that most of the human race is doomed and that is through the wanten exercise of freewill.

I understood, at that early age, that a personal decision, to embrace the reality of God or to run from Him was incumbent upon me. I chose poorly, time and time again, with the full conviction that the choice was mine.

The same freewill that kept me in sin, is the
freewill whereby I embraced Christ.


"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Rev 22:17

You were in bondage but God overruled your rebellious will subjugated it and made you to lay it down at the cross, Because God does this gently,He woos us [although He can mix it if He wants] people hardly know that He is doing it.

So we go around crowing that it was our choice, our decision.

Your self-contradiction here amounts to a sort of inchoherent rambling. The Edenic discourse makes it clear that Adam chose. Whatever notions "you" offer concerning his pre and post fall nature are speculative, imaginative and without scriptural  authority.

As a Christ believer I would suggest Romans 1 for a clear scenario on man's wilful post-fall nature and his culpability before God.

Your ad-libbing amounts to confusion.

[Slug1]

I do not blame God for man's sin I blame the devil in deceiving man into believing he had freewill. ... and of course man for believing the devil.

You are still not addressing the point that, Adam made a choice.

A) We all (in this thread) agree that God didn't make him choose.
B) Based on this present response you made, satan deceived Adam into believing he had free will.
C) If Adam is deceived into thinking he had free will, then who or what made Adam choose?

[Billy Evmur]

We know that Adam changed 180 % after his rebellion. His recognition of his nakedness, do you think it is referring to clothes? I think Adam was clothed in shekinah glory before he rebelled. He fled from God ...heartbreaking, people are still fleeing from God today, he turned and blamed Eve. All the love and trust was gone.

Man could scarcely be saved unless that love and trust can be recovered

I agree, Adam's life took a 180 degree turn once he rebelled. My discussion point however, you are failing to address. Adam made his choice BEFORE sin was in the world, before he was spiritually dead, before the 180 degree turn. All your discussion points and all the scriptures you raise concerning free will are about AFTER the fall.

Adam freely made a choice before the fall of mankind. His (Adam's) choice, not God's choice for him.

I keep answering you. Choice is not freewill

Adam had no say whatever in the options put before him or in the consequences which would follow on. The devil tricked him into believing there was a 3rd choice, that he could sin with and not die, in other words that he had freewill.

[Billy Evmur]

I do not blame God for man's sin I blame the devil in deceiving man into believing he had freewill. ... and of course man for believing the devil.

You are still not addressing the point that, Adam made a choice.

A) We all (in this thread) agree that God didn't make him choose.
B) Based on this present response you made, satan deceived Adam into believing he had free will.
C) If Adam is deceived into thinking he had free will, then who or what made Adam choose?

deception

[Billy Evmur]

When, as a toddler, I first learned of God, I became enraged and wanted nothing to do with the Creator. The thought of being destined to meet Him, let alone the notion of being accountable to Him tortured me, and I wrestled night and day.

I've since learned that most of the human race is doomed and that is through the wanten exercise of freewill.

I understood, at that early age, that a personal decision, to embrace the reality of God or to run from Him was incumbent upon me. I chose poorly, time and time again, with the full conviction that the choice was mine.

The same freewill that kept me in sin, is the
freewill whereby I embraced Christ.


"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Rev 22:17

You were in bondage but God overruled your rebellious will subjugated it and made you to lay it down at the cross, Because God does this gently,He woos us [although He can mix it if He wants] people hardly know that He is doing it.

So we go around crowing that it was our choice, our decision.

Your self-contradiction here amounts to a sort of inchoherent rambling. The Edenic discourse makes it clear that Adam chose. Whatever notions "you" offer concerning his pre and post fall nature are speculative, imaginative and without scriptural  authority.

As a Christ believer I would suggest Romans 1 for a clear scenario on man's wilful post-fall nature and his culpability before God.

Your ad-libbing amounts to confusion.

You guys talk about ad libbing. Where in all the NT do you read someone saying they chose Christ of their own freewill?

Always it is God who chose us. Before the world was begun He chose us, where were you then? The one or two who came running to Jesus saying they would be His disciples were turned away.

Contrary to what you say Paul teaches that we were in bondage to the elemental spirits of the universe ... demons. Slaves we were to sin.

Why did you not of your "own freewill" stop sinning?

No in order to be set free you must die at the cross, lay down your will there and receive Christ as your Lord.

You think it is your freewill but the bible says different, the bible says we are born again not by the flesh nor by the will of the flesh but by the will of God. ... why then do you say it was your will?

[RabbiKnife]

You do understand that freedom of the will of man and sovereign election are not exclusive of the other or contradictory, right?

[IMINXTC]

By Billy Evmer. You were in bondage but God overruled your rebellious will subjugated it and made you to lay it down at the cross,

Ad libbing.

[IMINXTC]

There is a huge segment of Christianity that believes this…

Right, Calvinists. It's bonkers. If I was a Christian, I would still find that movement morally repugnant.

Thankfully I don’t

In part because you are a very clear thinker, my friend.

And you would be correct!

[Billy Evmur]

You do understand that freedom of the will of man and sovereign election are not exclusive of the other or contradictory, right?

I do not. Sovereign election is a true doctrine, human freewill is a deception.

[Billy Evmur]

Charles Spurgeon on human freewill

www.azquotes.com/author/13978-Charles_Spurgeon/tag/free-will

[Billy Evmur]

Martin Luther on human freewill

www.azquotes.com/author/9142-Martin_Luther/tag/freewill

[Billy Evmur]

By Billy Evmer. You were in bondage but God overruled your rebellious will subjugated it and made you to lay it down at the cross,

Ad libbing.

If our Lord Jesus was sat with you at supper and He said "you did not choose Me but I chose you"

will you still insist that you chose Him?

[RabbiKnife]

No rational believer believe that we chose Jesus.  We all admit that Jesus chose us.  What does that have to do with free will. 

Jesus chose Judas, too, but we see how that worked out.

Why do you live in such a mentally constipated world?

Do you not understand that sovereign election and free moral agency are completely compatible without man being the source of salvation or of God being the source of evil?

Your rigid refusal to look outside the box of what you have been told must be eliminates from your conversation the possibilities of what can be, and which is -- mentally, philosophically, and spiritually -- true and satisfying.

God is sovereign.  God chose.  God made man with free moral agency.  Because of God's foreknowledge, He is not limited to what must be but is free to see what could be.

Geez, it's listening to conversations like this that have pushed many of my friends and colleagues completely away from the Gospel.

"'Cause I said so" is not an answer.

[IMINXTC]

By Billy Evmer. You were in bondage but God overruled your rebellious will subjugated it and made you to lay it down at the cross,

Ad libbing.

If our Lord Jesus was sat with you at supper and He said "you did not choose Me but I chose you"

will you still insist that you chose Him?

Deceptive, suggestive language and ad-libbing where scripture does not suffice? Talk about "failed concept!"