Is free will a failed concept?

[ProDeo]

Just brainstorming.....

We know about the garden, the fall of A&E.

We read - Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil.

Assuming one of us means all of heavenly creatures then all already knew the difference between good and evil.

How did all the creatures know, we read about fallen angels, thus angels have free will. So this could be the reason. Maybe, maybe not, but we have 2 cases of free will that end up in sin.

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A bit of Plato

The Cycle of Opposites

The first argument is based on the cyclical interchange by means of which every quality comes into being from its own opposite. Hot comes from cold and cold from hot: that is, hot things are just cold things that have warmed up, and cold things are just hot things that have cooled off. Similarly, people who are awake are just people who were asleep but then woke up, while people who are asleep are just people who were awake but then dozed off.

And so it is with good, it has its opposite which is evil. Love finds its opposite in hate or indifference. Justice finds its opposite in injustice, and so on. Obedience vs disobedience. There seems to be always an opposite.

Will sin be always be on the watch when we are with the Lord?

In Revelation the "tree of life" is mentioned 4 times and the need to eat from it.

Or will God say that He tried 2 times and has showed mankind and angels sufficiently that free will sooner or later will lead to another rebellion and that He wants to take away our free will.

Ouch....

[RabbiKnife]

Without free will there is no such thing as love

God is love, so freedom of the will must always exist

Part of the glory of eternity with Jesus will be the power to choose not to sin

[Athanasius]

Free will results in sin because we're morally imperfect.

God has 'free will' (whatever we mean by that when applying it to God), and He does not sin, nor can He sin. God cannot sin any more than He can create a logical contradiction. Yet God is still free and in fact, more free than any other being.

This means that we, too, could be morally perfect and perfectly free, yet without the ability to sin. (So why didn't God create a morally perfect creation?) The freedom to do evil, isn't really freedom.

"We" obtained our knowledge of good and evil from disobedience, sin, etc. The problem isn't that we know but how we came to know. We effectively stole the knowledge for ourselves rather than it having been given.

[ProDeo]

Without free will there is no such thing as love

God is love, so freedom of the will must always exist

[!]

Yes.

OTOH, voluntarily giving up your free will also is an act of love.

But... you are making much more sense.

[IMINXTC]

Human moral imperfection, before the fall, did not exist and was not a factor until the decision to sin. Man's free will was his perfection and he chose out of that free will to sin. Man's sin belongs to man, and was not the result of inherent moral imperfection. Thus: the Fall.

Man's new nature through Christ and the rebirth is a spirit and is does not sin.

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1JN3:9

So the difference between Adam and the reedeemed is the very Spirit of God who dwells within.

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."  2Pt 1:4

[Athanasius]

Human moral imperfection, before the fall, did not exist and was not a factor until the decision to sin. Man's free will was his perfection and he chose out of that free will to sin. Man's sin belongs to man, and was not the result of inherent moral imperfection. Thus: the Fall.

Man's new nature through Christ and the rebirth is a spirit and is does not sin.

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1JN3:9

So the difference between Adam and the reedeemed is the very Spirit of God who dwells within.

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."  2Pt 1:4

We have never been morally perfect. If we were morally perfect, we would have never sinned. That we're morally imperfect and sinned is still on us. Moral imperfection doesn't mean we have to sin, only that we can sin should we choose. Similarly, Adam and Eve were free to choose before they knew good and evil.

[ProDeo]

Free will results in sin because we're morally imperfect.

God has 'free will' (whatever we mean by that when applying it to God), and He does not sin, nor can He sin. God cannot sin any more than He can create a logical contradiction. Yet God is still free and in fact, more free than any other being.

This means that we, too, could be morally perfect and perfectly free, yet without the ability to sin. (So why didn't God create a morally perfect creation?) The freedom to do evil, isn't really freedom.

"We" obtained our knowledge of good and evil from disobedience, sin, etc. The problem isn't that we know but how we came to know. We effectively stole the knowledge for ourselves rather than it having been given.

On the blue, since angels have fallen as well, are they also morally imperfect?

[RabbiKnife]

Yes

[ProDeo]

In a way that is a reassurance considering there are angels (likely the vast majority) that never sinned.

[Fenris]

Without free will, human existence has no meaning.

[Billy Evmur]

The bible nowhere talks about human freewill, there are about 2-3 mentions in the OT only with regard to freewill offerings.

No epistle says "thanks be unto God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ whom we have chosen of our own freewill" it's laughable isn't it.

You would think it would be in every chapter and verse of the bible after all you can't pick up a gospel tract or article or read a christian book without it being hammered into your mind. Man has a freewill and may act and choose accordingly. It is exactly the same tactic they use to brainwash folks into believing in evolution. Everybody knows we evolved right? it's proven fact, the scientists all agree.

But evolution is a lie and so is human freewill.

We DO have a will but the bible says it is in bondage, a slave to sin and bound to death. Before we can be saved God has to set us free and this He does miraculously at the preaching of the gospel.

Jesus died on the cross to set us FREE, free from ourselves, from our will which is set in emnity with God.

's no such thing as freewill.

[RabbiKnife]

Bible doesn’t mention the Trinity either.

Do you believe in it?

[Slug1]

If there is no free will, then mankind can't transgress against God.

[Billy Evmur]

Bible doesn’t mention the Trinity either.

Do you believe in it?

God's triune nature can be discerned in scripture.

You can't say at the same time we were in bondage, slaves to sin, bound to die [I am speaking about before we were saved] and we had freewill.

Jesus died to set us FREE and that is a different state altogether, our condition as slaves is the reason why He must die, so that we might also die in Him and so be FREE.

.... but let us not now say we were already free.

[Billy Evmur]

If there is no free will, then mankind can't transgress against God.

Freewill, not that there is any such thing but is an illusion created by the devil, but the deception that we had freewill is what caused us to sin.

"we have turned every one of us to our own way and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all"