The First Lie Detector

[Sojourner]

Years ago I heard about a test the Lakota Sioux had devised for determing the truth, which amounts to a primitive but effective lie detector. When someone was accused of wrongdoing, or his truthfulness in a particular matter was in question, the individual became the subject of a ceremony designed to ascertain the truth. With great solemnity, the person was brought into a lodge furnished with special accoutrements and with respected tribal elders in attendance.

In the center of the lodge sat a platform with a shallow vessel in the center, flanked on either side by a stone--one white and one black. It was then explained to the subject that the great spirit, under cover of darkness, would establish his innocence by placing the white stone in the vessel, or else his guilt by placing the black stone there.

The lodge door was then closed and all lights were extinguished, plunging the lodge in complete darkness, with all in attendance sitting in silence as they awaited the great spirit's intervention. After some time, the lights were restored and guilt or innocence was quickly established by the placement of the stone.

What the accused did not know was, the great spirit would do absolutely nothing, and if the white stone was found in the vessel, it was because he himself put it there. Also unknown to the individual was that immediately after the lights were extinguished, ashes were quickly thrown on the ground between him and the platform. The ashes revealed the footprints he left as he got up and silently made his way to the platform in the darkness to affix the white stone in the vessel.

An innocent person, having nothing to fear. would trust the great spirit, confident that the white stone would vindicate him. A guilty person however, would take matters into his own hands in an effort to feign innocence. As simple as the method was, it worked on the same principle as the modern polygraph machine: the guilt of the one being tested gave him away.

[Oscar_Kipling]

Years ago I heard about a test the Lakota Sioux had devised for determing the truth, which amounts to a primitive but effective lie detector. When someone was accused of wrongdoing, or his truthfulness in a particular matter was in question, the individual became the subject of a ceremony designed to ascertain the truth. With great solemnity, the person was brought into a lodge furnished with special accoutrements and with respected tribal elders in attendance.

In the center of the lodge sat a platform with a shallow vessel in the center, flanked on either side by a stone--one white and one black. It was then explained to the subject that the great spirit, under cover of darkness, would establish his innocence by placing the white stone in the vessel, or else his guilt by placing the black stone there.

The lodge door was then closed and all lights were extinguished, plunging the lodge in complete darkness, with all in attendance sitting in silence as they awaited the great spirit's intervention. After some time, the lights were restored and guilt or innocence was quickly established by the placement of the stone.

What the accused did not know was, the great spirit would do absolutely nothing, and if the white stone was found in the vessel, it was because he himself put it there. Also unknown to the individual was that immediately after the lights were extinguished, ashes were quickly thrown on the ground between him and the platform. The ashes revealed the footprints he left as he got up and silently made his way to the platform in the darkness to affix the white stone in the vessel.

An innocent person, having nothing to fear. would trust the great spirit, confident that the white stone would vindicate him. A guilty person however, would take matters into his own hands in an effort to feign innocence. As simple as the method was, it worked on the same principle as the modern polygraph machine: the guilt of the one being tested gave him away.

I want this to be true so much,but I wasn't able to find anything on a quick google search though. What is your source I really want to know more because this is a really fun story?

[Sojourner]

I'm certain I read about it in a book by Paul Harvey I used to have called, "The Rest of the Story." Prior to writing it up for posting, I also looked on the internet for a reference to it, but was unable to find anything, and finally had to rely on memory. Paul Harvey was a smart, well-read guy, and I can't imagine him presenting something as historical fact that was not factual. I'm thinking about going on Amazon to find a copy of the book, as the source is most likely referenced.

[RabbiKnife]

Sort of like when my dad told my older brother to cut a peanut butter sandwich in half when we were kids.

The deal was that the older brother got to make the cut, but I got to pick which piece i wanted.

Made my brother quite surgical in his cutting!

Believe it or not, there are a ton of business/partnership agreements that have a similar option.  One can force the other to sell, but if the potential buyer sets a price that he is willing to pay for the partners' share, the agreement lets the seller instead buy the other out at the same price.

Stops a lot of chicanery

[Sojourner]

A method akin to the Lakota stones test was practiced in ancient India. The suspect was instructed to enter a darkened tent housing a donkey, whose tail he was to pull--being told if the donkey brayed, he was guilty. What he didn't know was there was soot on the donkey's tail, and if he emerged with a clean hand, it was obvious he failed to pull the tail to avoid having his guilt revealed

[RabbiKnife]

All of these work until the first guy who figures out the trick tells everyone else.

 

[Sojourner]

All of these work until the first guy who figures out the trick tells everyone else.

 

Yeah, I thought about that too.

[tango]

Sort of like when my dad told my older brother to cut a peanut butter sandwich in half when we were kids.

The deal was that the older brother got to make the cut, but I got to pick which piece i wanted.

Made my brother quite surgical in his cutting!

Believe it or not, there are a ton of business/partnership agreements that have a similar option.  One can force the other to sell, but if the potential buyer sets a price that he is willing to pay for the partners' share, the agreement lets the seller instead buy the other out at the same price.

Stops a lot of chicanery

My brother and I often had to divide things the same way but I'm the older so I ended up doing the cutting. Even now, many decades later, I can still cut things in half with remarkable precision.

I like the business agreement idea. Approaches that make it difficult for either side to take advantage of the other are always interesting.

[Athanasius]

All of these work until the first guy who figures out the trick tells everyone else.

 

Or you're too clever and you don't trust the people in the room.

[RabbiKnife]

Or you weigh more than a duck

[DavidGYoung]

This story is as old as the hills. One variation includes a magic bell that would scream. That was the basis for a school play when I was in upper-primary in the early eighties.

Most retellings involve adding something specific, such as setting it in ancient India or, as in this case, one of the indigenous groups of the Americas.

There might even have been a real version of this, but it clearly survived by oral tradition rather than anything that can be verified.

[Sojourner]

There might even have been a real version of this, but it clearly survived by oral tradition rather than anything that can be verified.

Yep. I know Paul Harvey's "The Rest of the Story" is where I heard about it, but am at a loss as to his source. It's been so many years, I'm not sure if I read it in in his book, or heard it on his program.

[IMINXTC]

Only dumb-heads would fall for it, IMO.

Levitation makes a lot more sense.

May the farce be with you.