Does anybody seriously believe the Pascal's Wager argument?

[Fenris]

Where does the human soul go after death?

The bible declines to tell us.

The bible has God telling Adam what happened as a result of his sin. It mentions several punishments, including having to work for food and becoming subject to death. "Hell" or "eternal damnation" are not mentioned.

You've introduced a problem and then presented a solution.

[RabbiKnife]

Your Bible may not tell you but mine does

[Fenris]

Honestly Fenris, it seems like you're playing semantic gymnastics here, between this and your responses to other examples.

I asked a simple question.

 If the terms "eternal statute" "throughout your generations" "wherever you may live" doesn't mean "permanent and forever", then pray tell, what does? If God wanted it to mean "permanent", what else should He have said?

And nobody has yet presented an answer.

So "bring him up as a sacrifice" might, or might not, mean that he is supposed to be a sacrifice.

Exactly.

What value is human input if God might not, you know, consider that human input and change his mind?

To show who we are.

Nobody has to believe it, it's just good to have a bit of consistency in whatever you believe. The possibility of God changing his mind works with all the scenarios we've mentioned.

Not necessarily. But even if that's true, it wouldn't apply to God simply throwing out the bible's laws, which He Himself explicitly said are permanent.

[Fenris]

And let’s not talk about why God establishes the Leviticus sacrificial system in the Law yet later speaks through the prophets saying how he is sick of their sacrifices and doesn’t want them

Not exactly.

Let's look at Isaiah 1.

God says to Israel-

“The multitude of your sacrifices—
    what are they to me?” says the Lord.
“I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
    of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
    in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
 When you come to appear before me,
    who has asked this of you,
    this trampling of my courts?
Stop bringing meaningless offerings!

Which seems to mean what you say, that God no longer desires sacrifice.

But let's look further.

God says

When you spread out your hands in prayer,
    I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
    I am not listening.

Now, nobody says that this means that God no longer wants our prayers.


Rather, God is saying that sacrifice or prayer are not magic; they're worthless if the person doesn't change their behavior.

As we see from later in the same chapter.

Wash and make yourselves clean.
    Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
    stop doing wrong.
Learn to do right; seek justice.
    Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
    plead the case of the widow.

[Fenris]

Your Bible may not tell you but mine does

Seems like kind of a big omission.

[Sojourner]

Fenris, when God beheld the inherent, limitless wickedness of man, He regretted making him, and decided to destroy the entire human race. End of story. But then He made the decision not to do so, preserving the seeds of humanity through the righteous Noah and his family and started over. Spin it any way you want, but that is clearly the love and mercy of God leading Him change His mind regarding the fate of mankind. 

[Fenris]

Fenris, when God beheld the inherent, limitless wickedness of man, He regretted making him, and decided to destroy the entire human race. End of story. But then He made the decision not to do so

I know what the bible says, and it isn't this.

[Sojourner]

Fenris, when God beheld the inherent, limitless wickedness of man, He regretted making him, and decided to destroy the entire human race. End of story. But then He made the decision not to do so

I know what the bible says, and it isn't this.

Genesis 6:5-7 according to the tanakh:

5 And the Lord saw that the evil of man was great in the earth, and every imagination of his heart was only evil all the time.    
6 And the Lord regretted that He had made man upon the earth, and He became grieved in His heart.         
7 And the Lord said, "I will blot out man, whom I created, from upon the face of the earth, from man to cattle to creeping thing, to the fowl of the heavens, for I regret that I made them."

I see in this text a heartbroken God deciding to destroy humanity--along with everything else that drew breath. What's your interpretation?

And how do we get from that scenario to preserving mankind through Noah, unless God changed His mind about wiping it all out?

[IMINXTC]

Where does the human soul go after death?

The bible declines to tell us.

The bible has God telling Adam wha t happened as a result of his sin. It mentions several punishments, including having to work for food and becoming subject to death.

I have not created a problem. You cannot define "death" outside of a vague interpretation of the OT,  conveniently called "my bible."

A very apropo challenge forthcoming, LORD willing.

[RabbiKnife]

Your Bible may not tell you but mine does

Seems like kind of a big omission.

Then that would be your dilemma not mine

[tango]

Honestly Fenris, it seems like you're playing semantic gymnastics here, between this and your responses to other examples.

I asked a simple question.

 If the terms "eternal statute" "throughout your generations" "wherever you may live" doesn't mean "permanent and forever", then pray tell, what does? If God wanted it to mean "permanent", what else should He have said?

And nobody has yet presented an answer.

It's still coming back to the question of whether God can change his mind or not. You say no, I say yes.

I don't see a contradiction in God saying he is imposing a rule upon the Israelites that will last forever, and then subsequently deciding not to hold them to it any more. If God can tell Ezekiel "use human excrement" and presumably very shortly afterwards say "you don't need to use human excrement" why can't he tell the Israelites "do this forever" and then many millennia later say they don't need to it any more?

[RabbiKnife]

The same reason the folks at IHOP say that God has to heal everyone because “He promised”

Or why the late Carlton Pearson became a universalist

[ProDeo]

The law still takes people to hell.

My bible lists many punishments for disobedience to God. "Hell" is not one of them. Pardon me for sounding abrupt, or even rude, but all you've done is created a problem and then produced a solution.

Jona 3:10 - When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.

[Sojourner]

After telling Hezekiah he would not recover from his illness and was about to die, God changed His mind, healing him and adding 15 years to his life.

God's nature and essence are immutable and unchanging, and it's impossible for Him to lie or break a promise. But that doesn't mean His mercy and grace cannot lead Him to change His mind if He chooses to do so. Who are we to impose limitations on Hs divine prerogatives?

[IMINXTC]

ASIDE:These things reveal man's free will (freedom to obey or not) and the LORD's willingness to respond to repentance, in both testaments.
Free will being man's greatest, God-given attribute.

Just saying.