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Author Topic: Antisemitism  (Read 13182 times)

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Oscar_Kipling

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2023, 04:28:09 PM »
So, your contention is that while some people might assert that antisemitism today is a reaction by people that are frequently being confronted with the accounts of antisemitic deeds and attitudes of their predecessors, but in reality their deeds and attitudes stem from their own antisemitic ideology and they themselves are the actual wellspring of the hatred and bigotry that perpetuates antisemitism as opposed to any Jew or other observer that points out antisemitism in the past or present? Have I understood you correctly?

That's a long, rambling sentence, even for you.

Are you honestly suggesting that Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, and all other antisemitic people hate Jews because they're tired of hearing them whine about past injustices? These people think Hitler had the right idea, and believe the world would be a better place if all Jews were exterminated. Israel is facing a clear and present danger today as a result of people who hate Jews because they're Jews--not because of anything related to the past.

Yeah, it was pretty long. My post was attempting to reiterate what I believe Fenris said during our exchange. In short that refraining from talking about antisemitism, past or present antisemitic deeds & beliefs or more generally race, ethnicity, nation of origin, or skin color is unlikely to end anti-Semitic deeds & beliefs.

Since I have you here have you ever considered not talking about anti-Semitism anymore? Have you ever reasoned that perhaps by not bringing up or avoiding anything related to race, ethnicity, nation of origin, or the color of one's skin that this will resolve anti-Semitism?

Fenris

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2023, 04:30:43 PM »
So, your contention is that while some people might assert that antisemitism today is a reaction by people that are frequently being confronted with the accounts of antisemitic deeds and attitudes of their predecessors, but in reality their deeds and attitudes stem from their own antisemitic ideology and they themselves are the actual wellspring of the hatred and bigotry that perpetuates antisemitism as opposed to any Jew or other observer that points out antisemitism in the past or present? Have I understood you correctly?
So your contention is that gentiles only hate Jews because Jews talk about how much gentiles hate Jews. In fact, if Jews stopped talking about how much gentiles hate Jews, then gentiles would cease hating Jews.

Have I understood you correctly?

Sojourner

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2023, 04:53:59 PM »
Yeah, it was pretty long. My post was attempting to reiterate what I believe Fenris said during our exchange. In short that refraining from talking about antisemitism, past or present antisemitic deeds & beliefs or more generally race, ethnicity, nation of origin, or skin color is unlikely to end anti-Semitic deeds & beliefs.

Since I have you here have you ever considered not talking about anti-Semitism anymore? Have you ever reasoned that perhaps by not bringing up or avoiding anything related to race, ethnicity, nation of origin, or the color of one's skin that this will resolve anti-Semitism?

You know Oscar, you're one of those rare people with so much intelligence, there's too little space left for common sense. Antisemitism will not go away because its reality ceases to be acknowledged or addressed. If it were not a legitimate concern today, there would be no reason to talk about it. BTW, this is a simple matter, and does not require a protracted, convoluted exchange. So, I'll bow out now.
Standing before the Judgment Throne we will retain only two things from this life: what God gave us, and what we accomplished with it.

Oscar_Kipling

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2023, 05:09:55 PM »
So, your contention is that while some people might assert that antisemitism today is a reaction by people that are frequently being confronted with the accounts of antisemitic deeds and attitudes of their predecessors, but in reality their deeds and attitudes stem from their own antisemitic ideology and they themselves are the actual wellspring of the hatred and bigotry that perpetuates antisemitism as opposed to any Jew or other observer that points out antisemitism in the past or present? Have I understood you correctly?
So your contention is that gentiles only hate Jews because Jews talk about how much gentiles hate Jews. In fact, if Jews stopped talking about how much gentiles hate Jews, then gentiles would cease hating Jews.

Have I understood you correctly?

I wouldn't call it MY contention, but yes the reasoning does seem to go that if such and such group, leader, media outlet etc just stops talking about race or racism or the racist views, deeds, policies, systems etc of the past and/or present then racism would go away, self correct or otherwise improve...somehow. Also, yes, on the other side of that coin is the idea that racism is perpetuated in large part by the very act of pointing it out, complaining about it, bringing up the past so on and so forth. From where I stand it seems to be a pretty popular notion.

Fenris

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2023, 06:08:00 PM »
Do you know who wants people to stop talking about antisemitism? To pretend that it doesn't exist?

Antisemites.


Sojourner

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2023, 12:59:49 PM »
“Never again?”

Without provocation or warning, Hamas terrorists invaded Israel, intentionally targeting civilians, especially women and children. The goal was not only death and violence, but to strike fear. Moreover, women and children were targeted because the stated goal of Hamas and many of its allies is not merely to remove the state of Israel from the map, but to remove Jewish people from the planet.

It took days and several harmful missteps (calls for “ceasefire”) before President Biden and his administration found their voice. The United States announced that the attacks were barbaric and unacceptable, and we stand on the side of decency and civilization — and with our ally, Israel.

Sadly, the overlay of modern American “team politics” has skewed the only proper response to this atrocity — and the necessary response from Israel. Too many Democrats have sat silently, posted morally weak statements about sadness and ceasefires, or worse, lectured us on why Hamas’ butchery needs to be judged “in context.”

How ironic that the party that is home to virtue-signalers, ever-changing social-media banners for the cause of the day and lawn signs proclaiming “Hate has no home here,” finds itself tongue-tied or worse, explaining away actual, purposeful hate.

There is one notable exception. Conservatives and people of good will must recognize and salute the moral clarity and leadership of Senator John Fetterman. His message has been crystal clear — including hanging the posters of the children held hostage by Hamas on his Senate office wall.

This stands in sharp contrast to those elected officials who continue to lecture us about needing to understand Hamas’ actions “in context,” or those who dare to talk of the barbarism as political “resistance.”

Washington, D.C. has itself become a caricature of moral relativism and selective outrage, a place where partisan power politics is so omnipresent that we are taken aback when genuine statesmanship takes place. Sadly, it’s of no surprise that there are those who are rushing to make sure that any legislation regarding aid packages for Israel’s defense must also include not only aid for the Gaza Strip, but also more aid for Ukraine.

Even in the face of evil — of children being beheaded, raped and held hostage — there are those who see tragedy as leverage to gain political points.

A legislator has the right to be for or against aiding Ukraine, or Israel — or making the aid packages smaller or larger or with added restrictions. That’s all fair game. What is not fair game is abusing bipartisan support for Israel and tying it to additional aid for Ukraine.

I know the game. I’ve worked as a Chief of Staff in Congress and in Harrisburg, twice. It’s just that there are times when we don’t need games — when we should expect better. The mixture of silence, moral relativism, and the political games coming out of D.C. show not only a lack of leadership, but invite other, angrier voices to step into that void.

It was seen in marches and rallies in major cities as crowds gathered with anti-Israel, anti-Semitic and pro-Hamas flags and signs.

And in many ways more frightening, for over three weeks across college campuses — especially Ivy League and “elite” universities, there are not merely pro-Hamas or anti-Israel marches, but actual intimidation and violence threatened as Jewish students are targeted, screamed at and trapped inside dining halls and meeting rooms.

My sense is that some of these screaming students are true anti-Semites, while others have been poorly educated or purposefully misinformed by their professors into believing that Israel persecutes, prosecutes and harasses Muslims and Palestinians — not knowing that Israel gave up the Gaza Strip, leaving behind greenhouses, water desalination plants and water lines; not knowing that Muslims serve as judges and sit in the Israeli Knesset.

And some students are just unthinking lemmings, looking to quickly join what seems to be the cause of the moment — not truly caring about BLM, the Russian-Ukraine war, or the history of Israel or Palestine. Their failing is ignorance and emptiness.

This is why they rip down posters of the children held hostage — many not truly understanding how morally broken and harmful their actions are.

The First Amendment guarantees American citizens a “right of the people to peaceably assemble,” to hold and speak their own values, no matter if they are “wrong” or “offensive.” That does not extend to threatening others or stopping others from speaking — let alone worse.

But colleges don’t teach the importance, the value and the concepts of the First Amendment any more. Colleges lecture about ever-evolving, mythical “hate speech.” Elite universities have led the charge to crush decency and redefine words — carelessly removing true thought and true morality from our campuses.

Today, America’s “best and brightest” are told that Riley Gaines promoting women in sports; Governor Abbott advocating securing the Texas/Mexico border; Moms4Liberty trying to limit the access of books with pictures of oral sex to grade school students; and Jennifer Sey making the case that schools should have reopened sooner during the “lockdowns” are “hate speech.” Yet threatening Jewish students against the backdrop of actual terror attacks is somehow “protected” speech.

In the absence of true leadership, in the absence of moral clarity, evil runs rampant. Hate becomes acceptable.

Many universities have changed America — for the worse. We are seeing this tragically unfold before our eyes. Have current day students never actually studied actual history, the Second World War, seen pictures of the concentration camps — genuine hate speech and barbarism?

Have our elected officials never been to Auschwitz, to the museums in Philadelphia or Washington, D.C.? Do they not truly understand that in reality, for all of our faults — on the world’s scale, ours is the freest, most diverse, most tolerant or most opportunity-based nation on the planet? And, Israel is much more like America than any other Middle Eastern nation — and than many on the planet.

What in God’s name do our politicians and our students think “Never Again” means?  It’s not simply a design on a T-shirt, or meme!

For the foreseeable future, people of goodwill, who understand history and who possess moral clarity, must speak up and speak out—to our families, our communities and in public.

In the longer term, civic leaders, parents, and grandparents must think about how we got here — to a place of moral weakness, misunderstood “tolerance” and the idea that actions do not have consequences…as if life were a game or a college campus, where consequences don’t matter.

We must preserve, protect and defend the First Amendment. Americans should not all think the same and say the same things. But the majority should have unity of purpose and shared values of what America states for. And, we must work even harder to make sure that the clearest, most effective voices are those that promote the values of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

(From the broadandliberty.com website, authored by Guy Ciarrocchi)
Standing before the Judgment Throne we will retain only two things from this life: what God gave us, and what we accomplished with it.

Fenris

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2023, 01:22:06 PM »
“Never again?”


Over the past few years, the self appointed heroes on the left who have claimed "Of course I would have saved Jews from the Nazis" have taken the side of the modern day Nazis, Hamas.

Never Again is now.

Fenris

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2023, 02:01:26 PM »
This is hard to read.

Quote

Matt Gurney: What I watched Hamas do


The screams I heard on Monday weren't fake. The monsters at the door weren't actors in a lot of latex. These monsters were real.

MATT GURNEY
NOV 7, 2023

On Nov. 6, one-month-less-a-day after the Hamas assault on southern Israel, I was one of a small number of journalists to receive a briefing by a senior Israeli government official at the Israeli consulate in Toronto. Part of the briefing was the showing of a film, approximately 42 minutes long, that contained video and audio records of the attack. The sights and sounds came from many sources, including home security footage, survivor footage, surveillance cameras at private residences, military facilities and in public places, as well as cameras and Go-Pro-style body worn cameras carried by Hamas. Later in the film, we also see footage taken by Israeli first responders — some of it informally, via body worn cameras and smartphones, but some of it also deliberately and meticulously, as part of the documenting of the attack's aftermath. The video also included audio portions of what the Israeli government claims is intercepted Hamas communications sent during the attack.

I have to preface this near the top: I can't vouch for the authenticity of the videos, or of the translations. I believe that the videos are authentic and the translations accurate — the latter is easier, since it has by now been shown to enough people that any false translations would have been noted by members of the audience, but I don't speak Hebrew or Arabic, and had to rely on the captions. As for the videos, while some of what I saw on Monday was new to me, other clips have already been shared widely on social media. There's a decent chance you've seen some of them, too. For further disclosure, many of the clips are very short — a few seconds each. The Israelis said that in many cases, they are only choosing to release what the families of victims have agreed to allow to be shown. That's an editorial decision, and I haven't seen the unedited videos. I can’t tell you what I wasn’t shown.

So if you're absolutely determined to find a way to discredit or dismiss everything I'm about to say, I'll keep it easy for you. I saw what was presented to me, by Israel, and have little ability to independently confirm any of it.

If you're interested in hearing what I saw, though, here it is.

I should start by telling you I don’t plan to dwell on all the atrocities or try to summarize the whole 42 minutes of carnage I watched in any kind of coherent sequence. It's not that the atrocities aren't important — they're obviously the central point of the briefing for reporters, and what I was asked to bear witness to. My thinking is simply this: much of what I could tell you has been summarized elsewhere. The global media first saw this film, in Israel, two weeks ago; some of my Ottawa-based colleagues saw it last week. If you're looking for a summary of the contents, those exist already. I don't think you'd benefit from just another version of that, and I know I wouldn't enjoy writing one. So in the main, I'll avoid long, descriptive passages where I tell you what I saw. I'll try to offer something different.

But first, let's get this out of the way. I confess that I was afraid when the video started. Simple fear. Fear I'd crack, fear I'd have to look away, fear I'd somehow fail to meet the moment. I don’t know if that was a rational fear — what the hell does meeting the moment even mean? — but I was afraid. I was afraid from the moment I was asked to attend and said yes. As the film began, though, I found many of the videos less graphic than I'd feared, and actually less graphic than some of what I'd already seen and written about. No one should mistake me — the videos are graphic, some of them extremely so. But in many cases, the videos are taken from too far away or from an unsteady camera (particularly the body worn ones) and many of the worst gruesome details are thus obscured or missed.

Not all of them. Lord no, not all. But some. That helped.

There are exceptions. I'll get to them. But I chose to focus mainly on what else was happening in these videos, as the atrocities unfolded. You’ve already heard about the violence. What haven’t you heard much about?

What jumped out at me in many of these videos were the unsettlingly normal details depicting what looked like a pretty normal day, something I found instantly familiar, and suspect you would, too. Early in the presentation, there is footage of Hamas terrorists roaming through a kibbutz unopposed. It seems that many of the civilians have fled or are hiding; they're having a hard time finding anyone. And as they wander through the backyards, I was struck by how utterly banal a scene it was. If you didn’t know what was happening, it’d have been lovely. This truly was, to revive a grimly apt old phrase, the banality of evil.

You see nice gardens, well tended by the owners, something my mom and or my aunt would (for some reason) enjoy pouring countless hours and gallons of sweat into. You see patio furniture with books and newspapers left behind as the residents fled, but if you didn’t know better, you’d think they were inside, putting on the kettle for more tea. The tables are cluttered with mugs and other remnants of all the little details of a normal day in a normal life. The view was something I've seen a thousand times before while visiting friends or neighbours, and what people have seen a thousand times before when visiting me at my home or cottage — a bit of clutter, a few dishes that probably should have gone into the washer already, a garden hose tossed lazily aside instead of being properly coiled back up nice and tight and hung up on its hooks. It's just a pleasant, comfortable outdoor scene, filmed by the people who are hunting for civilians to kill.

They do eventually find some, and murder them in their homes. Other homes they simply set ablaze, patiently holding lighters up to ignite drapes and plants. They shoot a pet dog, too. It doesn't die right away, and seems surprised, more than anything, when it is shot with what looked like an AK-47. It reminded me of one of the dogs I'd had, a weird mutt named Tasha. The dog wasn't attacking the terrorists, it just seemed curious about the newcomers and was sauntering over to check them out when they shot it.

Later clips show further explicit acts of violence. In many instances, the terrorists take care to ensure their victims are dead by shooting them again even after they are down. I view these clips with something of a trained eye, and noted quickly that the shootings are methodical and efficient. The attack force was well-drilled and organized. The killers are mostly task-oriented and focused. They had objectives and stuck to them. But that doesn't mean they weren't having the time of their lives. The National Post's Sabrina Maddeaux was there on Monday as well, and in her column about the briefing, she made a point of flagging something I'd noticed too — glee. Pleasure. Delight. Whooping cheers, selfies with the boys (carefully framed to put dead or captured Jews in the background), huge grins. The attacks were efficient, but not joyless. The Hamas terrorists are thrilled to be doing what they're doing.

And they did so with the benefit of having achieved complete surprise. That’s something else I noticed when I took the time to look past the visceral horror of the murder spree. The Israeli official at the consulate on Monday said, I think correctly, that a full accounting for the failures that made October 7th possible will have to wait until after the war. But there were indeed major failures. Something that jumped out at me over and over in those videos was that the Israeli public had not been alerted and was caught utterly unprepared. There was no warning. They had not had time to take any defensive action. In video after video, I saw people killed after walking or driving into ambushes, or while simply out and about on the streets going about their morning routine. Over and over there is some variation of someone driving toward a few parked cars, oblivious to the danger, and being killed when the Hamas terrorists open fire on them from the side of the road. The murdered Israelis, whom I hope died before really understanding what was happening, are then dragged out of their cars, shot again just to be sure, and often have their phones and other valuables taken. In at least one instance, the Hamas men get into one of the cars and drive away with it. I don’t know if that’s to replace a damaged Hamas vehicle or simply because it was a nice enough car.

It's hard to state how total the surprise seems to have been. I've promised you to mostly spare you blow-by-blow descriptions of what I saw, but I feel as though I have to make an exception here. One video shows a large number of young Israeli women, dressed (barely dressed, to be blunt) in bed clothes and pyjamas, being confined in a large room. Some of them seem to have kept their cellphones and are recording or texting. There are sounds of explosions nearby and the women are terrified, but mostly keeping it together, providing each other comfort and support. A single terrorist is visible in the doorway, cradling a rifle and keeping an eye on the women, who are huddled all together in the far opposite corner. The Israeli official at the briefing explained that these were female soldiers, taken captive when the headquarters they were assigned to was captured early in the attack.


continued...

Fenris

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2023, 02:01:47 PM »
part 2

Quote
Taken captive in their bed clothes. Tiny shorts and tank tops, light PJs with colourful patterns. A few were in uniform, but most seem to have been asleep when Hamas hit their base, catching them unarmed and barely even dressed. I don't know what became of these women. I don't know why there were no male Israeli POWs in the video, though I can hazard a guess. I do know that someone will have to answer for that kind of failure when this is all over. Those girls never had a chance. How the hell does that happen?

The Israeli official at the briefing explained that these were female soldiers, taken captive when the headquarters they were assigned to was captured early in the attack. Taken captive in their bed clothes. Tiny shorts and tank tops, light PJs with colourful patterns.

Many of the videos shown for us on Monday depict the attack on the music festival. These videos were not the most graphic, but I found them among the most upsetting. Many of the attendees were able to capture and share some videos of what they went through. The events there seemed to have moved slowly, probably due to the sprawling size of the venue, meaning they had time to take and send the videos, but also to realize what was happening and become afraid.

They were right to be afraid. It was a killing field. There wasn't much shelter to be found. The terrain was flat, with not many natural obstacles to hide behind. There was a row of porta-potties, and a Hamas terrorist took time to punch one rifle round through each door; a later photo shows what appears to be those same porta-potties, the doors now open, and one of them splattered with blood, with more pooled on the floor. I guess someone had been hiding inside that one.

Some people escaped by running early enough and fast enough, but many were wounded or slowed by helping the wounded, and a great many seem to have been either gunned down as they ran or were captured trying to hide amid what little cover was available. In one of the most gutting moments of the presentation, a wounded man seems close to escaping, hiding behind a car. (The scene was captured by a dashboard camera in the parking lot.) Hamas terrorists find a different man and march him off and out of the frame, but our wounded man pulls himself slowly almost out of sight. Just when you think he may have escaped notice, a terrorist walks into the frame, casually walks up to the man and shoots him twice with a rifle at point-blank range. Then he wanders off.

There's more. A dumpster seems to have been turned into an improvised shelter by many of the young adults present, and they had time to realize they were in trouble. Many are hurt and bloody. Some are calling out to their mothers and fathers. Then Hamas men find them, and start dragging them away to pickup trucks. They shove as many into the beds as possible and leave with them. Many of them were wounded, all of them were shocked. And as I wrote in an earlier column about this, you don't need to know that much history to know what the sight of Jews being packed tightly into vehicles that will carry them off to their likely deaths is going to ring an awfully grim bell for Jewish people all over the world.

There’s more from the music festival, but the point is made, I think. Many of the clips that follow show what emergency responders found when they began arriving at the sites that had been attacked, after the army had secured the area. There is no pleasant way to say what I'm about to tell you, so I'll just have to say it: you can tell that many of these videos are a number of hours or even days after these people died because the bodies are beginning to change colour and bloat as decomposition begins. (Recent coverage from Israel has recounted how Israeli medical examiners are still working through the carnage of a month ago, due to the sheer number of bodies and body parts that need examination.) Some of these scenes are full of truly appalling sights, including, I sincerely hate having to report, the bodies of women that are nude below the waist and with shirts pulled up, exposing their chests, their legs left spread apart. Many other bodies, including some very small ones, have been burned, sometimes not completely.

These scenes are being documented for the evidence. And a series of photos shows some of the medical examinations, including of more children than I wish to recount. In some cases the bodies are so destroyed it's hard to really tell what they had been. All that’s left is a mass of pulverized viscera or remains burnt into little more than carbonized ash. But sometimes you can tell they were kids because of the pyjamas. I saw a pair of Mickey Mouse PJs wrapped around something that was otherwise pretty unrecognizable and that was probably the hardest moment for me on Monday. My kids used to have PJs a lot like those.

There was also a moment during the briefing on Monday where I felt a strange kind of kinship with the cameraman. He's identified only as a first responder, and the footage is from his body worn camera. (You can tell by his shadow that he was armed with a rifle, so I assume he was a police officer.) It depicts him arriving at the scene of the music festival. He's approaching what looks like a pretty standard beer tent — a place to get a cold drink, a meal and some shade. As the first responder is approaching, he's talking, presumably into a radio, relaying information back to someone unidentified. He reports that he sees a body. And another body. And then another and another and another. Then many. It's a terrible scene, and you can hear tension and fear in his voice, but he's calm. Collected. On-mission. He's doing his job and relaying the info back to his colleagues or commanders. He's also quietly calling out to anyone who might be there. Asking for signs of life. Offering help. Begging people to show him they're alive and need rescue.

But when he gets to the edge of the tent and peers over the counter of the bar, he lets out this little strangled noise. I've been thinking about it for hours and I don't really know how to describe it. He starts rattling off what he's seeing and, just for a moment, his composure broke and he lets out the sound. A sigh? A gasp? A curse? Some tortured combination of all three?

You have to remember, because the camera is body worn, we're seeing it as he sees it. And the sound he makes is in reaction to what he sees when he gets to the beer tent and finds the bodies. So many bodies. A dozen? Twenty? More? It was more than I could take in, everywhere. So many of them that they are stacked in piles. I don't know if they were gunned down in a group and landed that way, or if Hamas fastidiously stacked the corpses of their victims, but it's bodies. Corpses, laying where they fell. It's all that he can see. "Everyone is dead," he reports, or words to that effect. "The stage is full of dead people," he yells — again, that might not be exact, but words close to that. I couldn't take down notes fast enough to get the words precisely right, but the sound I remember perfectly, because even though I basically held it together for the entire presentation, I'm pretty sure that at the moment he gets to the beer tent and sees the corpses piled up in huge pools of congealed blood, I made the exact same sound that he did. The poor man regains his composure and begins checking the bodies before him, moving from victim to victim, looking to render aid. But there’s no one to help.. "She's dead,” he says, almost to himself. “She's dead ... she's dead too ... " You can hear his despair.



There's more I could tell you. But again, you've probably read summaries already, and I think that if I tried to go much further, I'd just be repeating what you’ve already read elsewhere. I've tried above to include details that I hadn't seen in other reports — littler things, more subtle things, that drove home the horror in ways that the sheer violence didn't always manage to do. The barrage of death and murder was relentless and impossible to take in. It was easier, at least for me, to focus on the other details: the total surprise, the night clothes worn by the captured women, the cups on the patio tables. The dog that reminded me of my long-dead mutt. These details, for me, didn't distract from the violence. It amplified it. It made it more real. They were all the tiny details your mind can't imagine and that you'd be forgiven for forgetting. That's why I tried to take as many notes as I could. It was too much, too fast. I hope the details help make it more real for you. They did for me.

To end, I want to make two points.

The first thing might seem like a complete curveball, so please bear with me a moment. Today is not only one month since the attack in Israel, it's also one week since Halloween in North America. Halloween was supposed to be a day when The Line published two columns, one each by Jen Gerson and myself, marking one of our favourite holidays. We did this last year and had a lot of fun with them — and the readers seemed to like them, too. But as Halloween approached this year, the very idea seemed ghastly. How the hell could we talk about scary movies and cheap thrills against the backdrop of these real-life horror shows? The footage from Israel, in many cases, so closely tracks with scenes from many horror films because both tap into a very primal fear: the monster is in the house. That's basically the structure of half of the horror movies you've ever seen, right? The terror of an enemy that can't be negotiated with, or bargained with or reasoned with, that will laugh while they hurt you, because it's fun. And that enemy isn't far away, he's right there, in your garden or your living room, coming through the windows to get you, dragging you out to die. This is a very primal, visceral kind of terror, and while I've traditionally enjoyed a good slasher flick with a bag of popcorn, especially around Halloween, I think it's going to a long time, a very long time before I can ever look at one as entertainment again. The screams I heard on Monday weren't fake. The monsters at the door weren't actors in a lot of latex. These monsters were real.

The second point I want to make is about bravery. I shared some of my early reactions to what I saw on Twitter on Monday, and many people very kindly and generously commended me for my bravery in subjecting myself to that awful video. And I know that's meant well. I really do. And I appreciate it, as the kindness it is intended as. But I showed up in a room in a nice downtown building and I got a briefing. A lot of what I saw was awful, and yes, this stuff absolutely takes a toll on a person. These horrors are just part of me now; it’s poison in my soul that will never go away. But … I just showed up and watched and listened. I knew I was going home at the end. So don’t rush to pin any medals on me, friends. Any bravery I showed on Monday is the very lowest rung on the ladder of courage, and I can say this because a lot of what I saw in those films, though awful, was brave. It was courageous.

I saw people dragging their wounded friends to safety, often being killed in the attempt. I watched captured female soldiers hugging each other, keeping each other calm and safe, fighting to keep contagious panic at bay. I saw a man fleeing the music fest along with a badly wounded woman, keeping his voice calm and soothing as he reassured her that he’d find her help.

And I saw a dad carrying his youngest son into a shelter, his final act before he's killed by a grenade and then shot a few times for good measure.

I want to end by talking about this family. I've left it until now on purpose. If you'd read anything about the media briefing, you'd probably read about this section of the video, because it's probably the most viscerally shocking. It's a dad and two young boys. The dad gets the boys into a shelter but he can't get the door closed and he's killed by a tossed grenade and then shot when he crumples to the ground. The boys wander out. One of them, the smaller one, is badly wounded. He seems to have lost an eye to the grenade's shrapnel — the video is mercifully not clear enough to show that in too much detail, but he's telling his older brother that he can't see out of that eye. They discuss their father being dead while a Hamas terrorist stands in their kitchen, a few feet away, pilfering their fridge for a cold drink. The terrorist casually offers them some food and drink, and leaves when they decline. The boys talk to each other about how their father is dead. "It's not a prank, he's dead," one says to the other. “I know, I saw,” the other agrees.

Seeing that moment was the part of Monday's briefing that I had most feared. That's what I was afraid would break me. I'd read all about it in basically every account of the presentation. And good God, it was awful. I had to take a break writing this part of the column to have myself a good sobbing fit because this is just about the worst thing I have ever seen.

But there was something I hadn't read anywhere else: after their father’s killer stops raiding the fridge and leaves, the older brother grabs a bottle of water and tries to give his younger brother first aid. He tries cleaning out his bloody shrapnel wounds what what supplies he has on hand.

That is bravery. That is courage. Not showing up to watch a video. But being a kid, standing there in your underwear, keeping your wits about you just moments after your dad is murdered before your eyes, and having the presence of mind to grab a bottle of water and do what you can to help your injured little brother.

I hope those kids are okay. They'll go onto great things, I think. So long as Hamas didn't come back later and kill them. I’d love to tell you that didn’t happen, but as of this time, the fate of those two young boys isn’t publicly known.

Oscar_Kipling

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2023, 02:21:29 PM »
people of goodwill, who understand history and who possess moral clarity, must speak up and speak out—to our families, our communities and in public.

Not to poo poo or abstract your entire heartfelt and rousing speech to a single idea, but I do think that this is where a major sticking point lies. In order to have the leadership impact that your suggesting, your good will must be trusted, your understanding and interpretation of history needs to be believed valid, your moral clarity thought of as worthy of deferring to and your voice as one that should be valued. I think it is easier to believe any of those things about oneself than it is to actually be worthy of it and harder still to be worthy of it and convince others of that fact.

I am curious, When someone is attempting to lead you in the way that you have described, What are some of the major things that turn you off or turn you away these days, what would you say are the most commonplace failures/ shortcomings? Additionally, let's pretend that you were going to attempt to lead me (let's pretend that you didn't know that I was an incorrigible gelastic weirdo) after I had read your post, what do you think might be the most conspicuous points of skepticism that I might have from just reading your words as you wrote them?

Fenris

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2023, 02:41:51 PM »
Not to poo poo or abstract your entire heartfelt and rousing speech to a single idea, but I do think that this is where a major sticking point lies.
Speaking out against Jew hatred isn't complicated, bro. You just do it.

Oscar_Kipling

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2023, 03:20:24 PM »
Not to poo poo or abstract your entire heartfelt and rousing speech to a single idea, but I do think that this is where a major sticking point lies.
Speaking out against Jew hatred isn't complicated, bro. You just do it.

You seem very focused on the idea of simplicity when dealing with what I have to say, yet you've spent post after post talking about antisemitism and how it makes you feel and what you think others should feel or do or say, and about the consequences of antisemitism and so on and so forth....can we just dispense with this irrelevant & vacuous non-rebuttal about simplicity and complication...clearly there is alot to talk about here, you know it , I know it, everyone in the thread knows it. It is beginning to feel like a lazy dismissal, and it's boring,when this topic is anything but.

if you actually want to engage, would you like to talk about why the rousing and heartfelt elocutions of those that consider themselves to be possessing goodwill, historical knowledge and moral clarity might find themselves falling flat with young people? Do those things matter when trying to convey the error of antisemitism? If they do matter why isn't it working? are young people just broken? if so how did they get broken? were their parents broken? if so how did their parents get broken? and so on and so forth. If you don't feel like engaging with any of that I understand, but please refrain from telling me how simple something is again, it is literally a waste of your time because it contains no meaning for me.

Fenris

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2023, 03:25:05 PM »
You seem very focused on the idea of simplicity when dealing with what I have to say, yet you've spent post after post talking about antisemitism and how it makes you feel and what you think others should feel or do or say, and about the consequences of antisemitism and so on and so forth....can we just dispense with this irrelevant & vacuous non-rebuttal about simplicity and complication...clearly there is alot to talk about here, you know it , I know it, everyone in the thread knows it. It is beginning to feel like a lazy dismissal, and it's boring,when this topic is anything but.

if you actually want to engage, would you like to talk about why the rousing and heartfelt elocutions of those that consider themselves to be possessing goodwill, historical knowledge and moral clarity might find themselves falling flat with young people? Do those things matter when trying to convey the error of antisemitism? If they do matter why isn't it working? are young people just broken? if so how did they get broken? were their parents broken? if so how did their parents get broken? and so on and so forth. If you don't feel like engaging with any of that I understand, but please refrain from telling me how simple something is again, it is literally a waste of your time because it contains no meaning for me.
I don't understand this typing diarrhea. No, there isn't a lot to talk about here. Hating Jews because they are Jews is bad. Go out and say it.

RabbiKnife

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2023, 03:27:23 PM »
Because most young people are idiots

Because parents have allowed their children to be indoctrinated by idiots

Because most people get the sum of their information from idiots

Because the church has abandoned traditional concepts of truth and evil has filled the vacuum because Satan is not an idiot
Danger, Will Robinson.  You will be assimilated, confiscated, folded, mutilated, and spindled. Do not pass go.  Turn right on red. Third star to the right and full speed 'til morning.

Sojourner

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Re: Antisemitism
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2023, 04:00:20 PM »
people of goodwill, who understand history and who possess moral clarity, must speak up and speak out—to our families, our communities and in public.

Not to poo poo or abstract your entire heartfelt and rousing speech to a single idea, but I do think that this is where a major sticking point lies. In order to have the leadership impact that your suggesting, your good will must be trusted, your understanding and interpretation of history needs to be believed valid, your moral clarity thought of as worthy of deferring to and your voice as one that should be valued. I think it is easier to believe any of those things about oneself than it is to actually be worthy of it and harder still to be worthy of it and convince others of that fact.

I am curious, When someone is attempting to lead you in the way that you have described, What are some of the major things that turn you off or turn you away these days, what would you say are the most commonplace failures/ shortcomings? Additionally, let's pretend that you were going to attempt to lead me (let's pretend that you didn't know that I was an incorrigible gelastic weirdo) after I had read your post, what do you think might be the most conspicuous points of skepticism that I might have from just reading your words as you wrote them?

I see the the author encouraging right-minded people to speak up with regard to those harboring an irrational and dangerous hatred for Jews. People are free to agree or disagree, as he makes clear. You, on the other hand, seem to think that the escalating antisemitism in the world will just vanish if we don't acknowledge it and call it what it is. Ignore it, and maybe it'll go away, right? Millions of indifferent Gentiles ignored Adolf Hitler's antisemitism for several years as he systematically murdered 6 million people.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”.
Standing before the Judgment Throne we will retain only two things from this life: what God gave us, and what we accomplished with it.

 

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