Generational divide on Israel vs Hamas

[Sojourner]

A Harvard CAPS/Harris poll showed support for Israel over Hamas among 18-24 year-olds at only 52%, while it was 95% for those 65 and older. I've come to expect a distorted perspective among the myopic younger generation, but how could so many side with malevolent, murderous savages over those seeking to defend their very existence?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/support-hamas-over-israel-among-college-age-students-shows-generational-divide-poll

[Oscar_Kipling]

A Harvard CAPS/Harris poll showed support for Israel over Hamas among 18-24 year-olds at only 52%, while it was 95% for those 65 and older. I've come to expect a distorted perspective among the myopic younger generation, but how could so many side with malevolent, murderous savages over those seeking to defend their very existence?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/support-hamas-over-israel-among-college-age-students-shows-generational-divide-poll

After looking at the key results report for that poll, I wonder how much different it would look if a neither option was given, anyway my reading of the 18-44 responses on Israel & Hamas overall seemed pretty ambivalent to me, but we'll actually never know I suppose. What is myopic about the younger generation?

[ProDeo]

Mankind hope is the young generation. They still believe, have dreams. When Arafat called for Intifada II and the horrors that followed Israel (as I sensed it) more or less gave up summarized as - how can we ever make peace with these people? And the wall came, the separation of Gaza came, new peace plans hardly had any impact. The sentiment changed, we survived many wars, zillions of UN resolutions, we are are still here, we will live with the problem, we don't care much any longer and live our lives as business as usual. That's what Intifada II has done with the Israel perspective IMO. And it needs a new generation to change that. Fenris may correct me if I am wrong.

October 7 happens - new situation, 20+ years have passed and there is a new generation that hasn't given up yet.

One thing for sure, when this war is over and Israel reached its goals, can it really think let's go back to business as usual without any change? Young people don't think so and they are right.





 

[RabbiKnife]

One cannot live in peace with another when the another existentially refuses to say that you have the right to live.

Israel has a huge population of Arabs (which is racially what the so called “Palestians” are-  who are Muslim that are both legal residents and citizens and live in peace.  Tribal jihadists like Hamas, Hezbollah, the Muslim brotherhood’s etc do not want to live in peace with Jews…

They create their own self sustaining mobius loop of violence

[ProDeo]

1948–49: Israel's War of Independence.
1967: Six-Day War.
1973: Yom Kippur War.

Peace with Egypt and Jordan came after all.

[RabbiKnife]

After Israeli victories in war

Yes

[Fenris]

Fenris may correct me if I am wrong.

October 7 happens - new situation, 20+ years have passed and there is a new generation that hasn't given up yet.

One thing for sure, when this war is over and Israel reached its goals, can it really think let's go back to business as usual without any change? Young people don't think so and they are right.

Young people are generally stupid, they have to learn life's lessons the hard way. This generation seems particularly lost after having their heads filled with garbage at institutions of "higher learning".

Having said that, young Americans are not young Israelis. Americans have no skin in the game and pay no price for being wrong (yet). Young Israelis have seen the horror that is Hamas and they know that peace is not possible with people who believe it's their religious obligation to murder you.

Go back to business as usual? No. Go back to the table and beg the Palestinians to accept a peace offer as they have so many times before? No, that won't be happening for a long time. 10/7 made sure of that. 

[tango]

Curiously the younger generations are, in general, far more accepting of things like homosexuality than older generations.

I remember seeing an opinion piece that mentioned a group proclaiming something like "gays supporting Hamas", which wondered how long it would be before the gays were executed if they lived under Hamas. Supporting a group that would literally seek your execution doesn't seem like a particularly well thought out move.

[Oscar_Kipling]

Curiously the younger generations are, in general, far more accepting of things like homosexuality than older generations.

I remember seeing an opinion piece that mentioned a group proclaiming something like "gays supporting Hamas", which wondered how long it would be before the gays were executed if they lived under Hamas. Supporting a group that would literally seek your execution doesn't seem like a particularly well thought out move.

There are gay and trans Christians, they probably aren't in danger of being beheaded or anything, but same kind of vibes imo.

[Athanasius]

Depends. I'm certainly not going to Gaza anytime soon to test the theory.

[tango]

Curiously the younger generations are, in general, far more accepting of things like homosexuality than older generations.

I remember seeing an opinion piece that mentioned a group proclaiming something like "gays supporting Hamas", which wondered how long it would be before the gays were executed if they lived under Hamas. Supporting a group that would literally seek your execution doesn't seem like a particularly well thought out move.

There are gay and trans Christians, they probably aren't in danger of being beheaded or anything, but same kind of vibes imo.

I know there are gay and trans Christians. I personally know some of them. I know some circles within the church are more or less hostile to them. I'm not sure how a few hostile vibes equates to having your head literally cut off but, you know, whatever. Besides, it's not like you see gay people protesting to show their support for the more anti-gay groups within the Christian church, and yet we do see them supporting the far more anti-gay Islamic groups.

[RabbiKnife]

I don’t know any gay or trans Christians that are actually happy about the current expression of their lifestyle.

[Oscar_Kipling]

Curiously the younger generations are, in general, far more accepting of things like homosexuality than older generations.

I remember seeing an opinion piece that mentioned a group proclaiming something like "gays supporting Hamas", which wondered how long it would be before the gays were executed if they lived under Hamas. Supporting a group that would literally seek your execution doesn't seem like a particularly well thought out move.

I know there are gay and trans Christians. I personally know some of them. I know some circles within the church are more or less hostile to them. I'm not sure how a few hostile vibes equates to having your head literally cut off but, you know, whatever. Besides, it's not like you see gay people protesting to show their support for the more anti-gay groups within the Christian church, and yet we do see them supporting the far more anti-gay Islamic groups.

From out here it seems a pretty big circle. The vibes I meant are those of desperately wanting to be a part of a community that is often disrespectful,  hostile or directly opposed to your existence. I guess I should have said that the rationale of contorting oneself into a community that appears fundamentally unwelcoming to you rings similar in both cases to me. I hope that clears that up and you no longer think that I'd just as well have my head chopped off as not be able to get married in the sanctuary.

[tango]

Curiously the younger generations are, in general, far more accepting of things like homosexuality than older generations.

I remember seeing an opinion piece that mentioned a group proclaiming something like "gays supporting Hamas", which wondered how long it would be before the gays were executed if they lived under Hamas. Supporting a group that would literally seek your execution doesn't seem like a particularly well thought out move.

I know there are gay and trans Christians. I personally know some of them. I know some circles within the church are more or less hostile to them. I'm not sure how a few hostile vibes equates to having your head literally cut off but, you know, whatever. Besides, it's not like you see gay people protesting to show their support for the more anti-gay groups within the Christian church, and yet we do see them supporting the far more anti-gay Islamic groups.

From out here it seems a pretty big circle. The vibes I meant are those of desperately wanting to be a part of a community that is often disrespectful,  hostile or directly opposed to your existence. I guess I should have said that the rationale of contorting oneself into a community that appears fundamentally unwelcoming to you rings similar in both cases to me. I hope that clears that up and you no longer think that I'd just as well have my head chopped off as not be able to get married in the sanctuary.

The thing is that if you find one church is hostile to homosexuality you can find a church that isn't. You might protest the church that is hostile. You probably won't protest in support of the church that is hostile.

What "Gays for Hamas" are effectively doing is shouting very loudly that the group that would literally execute them is a group worthy of their support. It's bizarre.

[Oscar_Kipling]

Curiously the younger generations are, in general, far more accepting of things like homosexuality than older generations.

I remember seeing an opinion piece that mentioned a group proclaiming something like "gays supporting Hamas", which wondered how long it would be before the gays were executed if they lived under Hamas. Supporting a group that would literally seek your execution doesn't seem like a particularly well thought out move.

I know there are gay and trans Christians. I personally know some of them. I know some circles within the church are more or less hostile to them. I'm not sure how a few hostile vibes equates to having your head literally cut off but, you know, whatever. Besides, it's not like you see gay people protesting to show their support for the more anti-gay groups within the Christian church, and yet we do see them supporting the far more anti-gay Islamic groups.

From out here it seems a pretty big circle. The vibes I meant are those of desperately wanting to be a part of a community that is often disrespectful,  hostile or directly opposed to your existence. I guess I should have said that the rationale of contorting oneself into a community that appears fundamentally unwelcoming to you rings similar in both cases to me. I hope that clears that up and you no longer think that I'd just as well have my head chopped off as not be able to get married in the sanctuary.

The thing is that if you find one church is hostile to homosexuality you can find a church that isn't. You might protest the church that is hostile. You probably won't protest in support of the church that is hostile.

What "Gays for Hamas" are effectively doing is shouting very loudly that the group that would literally execute them is a group worthy of their support. It's bizarre.

Is christianity A church or is Christianity The Church? It seems to be one or the other when it is convenient for a particular point from where I stand. Besides that there are LGBT people that literally do support churches or the Church that has them do conversion therapy or other things to deny or repress those aspects of themselves , heck the church I grew up in had a gay parishioner who everyone assumed was gay but they were wiling to kind of ignore it until he admitted it, he stayed in the church and was sort of tolerated like Jim Crow was tolerant of black people. He was willing to live that second class kind of life in a church, I considered his treatment disgusting. All that to say people do what you say they do not everyday. The mere fact that you might have to hop around and seek a church that will accept you or accept you enough that you can live with it is a big problem in my eyes. Look if you're cool with the idea that if you're gay or the other things  you better shop around, which by your defense of it you seem to be, I'm not going to stop you of course, I just disagree that even this is a situation that is entirely dissimilar from supporting hamas, and even if it were there are situations that even fit your definition. You love the Church or your very specific church, I don't, so what you are willing to apologize for or overlook I am not.It is what it is.